I think the books were part of the promotion, way back then, even David Braben pitched gameplay as much as science.
All lore is now dead to me.
The Galaxy - Is its size now considered to be a barrier to gameplay by the Developers?
- Thread starter Robert Maynard
- Start date
I think the books were part of the promotion, way back then, even David Braben pitched gameplay as much as science.
All lore is now dead to me.
Because you had to get there, intact, first. That is what makes this different. Its a risk free way of bringing your entire fleet from one end of the bubble to another.
I normally ignore comments that I've missed that are just wrong. Just happened the link to Michael's comments fell on the page with an old comment I made about feeling bad for the FDev team for this wash of disappointment on their big day and there's this reply:
It irritates me on a personal level (i've worked in video games, I don't now, but I still have close friends in the industry) and it's wrong. Even if you're not in the industry, it's obviously wrong (and probably because its a passive aggressive poke and people who think otherwise to the poster). And at no point did I suggest that the forum upset was indicative of everyone out there. But this industry is seriously hardcore lol. Unless you want a life, video games will take yours. So what you do is important, and after all the work, your official forums, your loyal consumers, do matter. No, they don't mean you as a developer take their word and paste it across every user of every type, that would be idiotic, but it is hard to see those in your forums take to the bit one part of your promotion and that cloud the rest of your work. You've kept it quiet, you're looking forward to seeing what people say, because, you know, this game is a large section of your life right now, and so yes, I do feel for the Developers. I don't agree at all on this issue - at all. Michael's replies have been for me, disappointing, but I do know what it's like to face a wall of "no". It's not fun especially on your own turf. Even if other areas are saying "yay", you want "your boys and girls" to be behind you.
So no, don't take honest empathy and trivialise it please.
These Dev guys deserve more, and so do we.
It irritates me on a personal level (i've worked in video games, I don't now, but I still have close friends in the industry) and it's wrong. Even if you're not in the industry, it's obviously wrong (and probably because its a passive aggressive poke and people who think otherwise to the poster). And at no point did I suggest that the forum upset was indicative of everyone out there. But this industry is seriously hardcore lol. Unless you want a life, video games will take yours. So what you do is important, and after all the work, your official forums, your loyal consumers, do matter. No, they don't mean you as a developer take their word and paste it across every user of every type, that would be idiotic, but it is hard to see those in your forums take to the bit one part of your promotion and that cloud the rest of your work. You've kept it quiet, you're looking forward to seeing what people say, because, you know, this game is a large section of your life right now, and so yes, I do feel for the Developers. I don't agree at all on this issue - at all. Michael's replies have been for me, disappointing, but I do know what it's like to face a wall of "no". It's not fun especially on your own turf. Even if other areas are saying "yay", you want "your boys and girls" to be behind you.
So no, don't take honest empathy and trivialise it please.
These Dev guys deserve more, and so do we.
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Please don't attack people because you disagree with their opinion.
A brilliant point well made. Rep given
Goose4291
Banned
Yeah, one of the big problems of this game right there in that sentence.
Because death is so cheap it makes everything throwaway and inconsequential.
I remember back early on in 2015 having a fight with a player who had an Asp who actually couldn't afford to repair his ship after he'd stupidly dove into a firefight and tried to engage myself and two other players in Eagles.
Whereas now, money grows on trees, and repair costs are meaningless.
You know, it's when I write stories like the above I wonder how much abuse No Man's Sky really deserves for being dumbed down and simplistic.
Completely get what you are saying Marc, it is a risk free way to transfer your fleet. That wasn't my point, some are going on about immersion, yet happy to get a brand new fully kitted replacement ship instantly sent to their last destination, even if that destination only stocks a sidewinder and a bunch of E grade modules.
Take Jaques for example, I don't hear people complaining about immersion when Jacques instantly teleports there brand new ship that isn't even stocked at his station.
Don't forget the quintessence of that:
We asked for credits come faster.
But those discussion were about alleviating
the problem, that trading was the go-to path.
The changes were o.k., but the community found ways to farm the money,
mission stacking and relogging for mission refresh are one version of this cancer.
If E: D were to be described as a cow,
it would lack the specks, in favor of "inconsistency" written all over it.
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I normally ignore comments that I've missed that are just wrong. Just happened the link to Michael's comments fell on the page with an old comment I made about feeling bad for the FDev team for this wash of disappointment on their big day and there's this reply:
It irritates me on a personal level (i've worked in video games, I don't now, but I still have close friends in the industry) and it's wrong. Even if you're not in the industry, it's obviously wrong (and probably because its a passive aggressive poke and people who think otherwise to the poster). And at no point did I suggest that the forum upset was indicative of everyone out there. But this industry is seriously hardcore lol. Unless you want a life, video games will take yours. So what you do is important, and after all the work, your official forums, your loyal consumers, do matter. No, they don't mean you as a developer take their word and paste it across every user of every type, that would be idiotic, but it is hard to see those in your forums take to the bit one part of your promotion and that cloud the rest of your work. You've kept it quiet, you're looking forward to seeing what people say, because, you know, this game is a large section of your life right now, and so yes, I do feel for the Developers. I don't agree at all on this issue - at all. Michael's replies have been for me, disappointing, but I do know what it's like to face a wall of "no". It's not fun especially on your own turf. Even if other areas are saying "yay", you want "your boys and girls" to be behind you.
So no, don't take honest empathy and trivialise it please.
There is a rationality to talking about the forums being an echo chamber when it comes to certain issues.. The PvE vs PvP debate is a prime example because of who are put in place as mods, the policies, its interpretation, and the bias DB has shown over the years when he drones on endlessly about 'griefing'. On that the community is largely polarised yet when it comes to this point on magic ship teleportation it affects everyone regardless of how they want to play the game.
Its worth pointing out that there is very similar sentiment over the issue when its discussed on reddit. So you're point here is baseless re forum dwellers. If all you can do is point the finger and try to marginalise valid arguments against insta teleport then you don't have much of an argument at all. Lets make our argument based upon merit and the impact it has upon game play, good and bad, and not start to feel sorry for the devs.. If they can't hack it then they can always find other work.
Whilst we have differing views here this is likely one of the most constructive arguments I've seen.. Whereas usually we'd have bitter personal sniping I don't recall seeing any so far..
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+1 rep again Cosmos, though virtual because I've already hugged you today!
You know there is an issue when I've repped out Cosmos, if PVE'ers and PVP'ers are singing from the same hymn sheet, there must be an issue! :O
I applaud FD for this decision. Never thought I'd say that. Instant ship transfer wouldn't even be a thing if they hadn't used jump range to balance ships in the first place.
Yes, gameplay must sometimes trump realism, but not when that gameplay wrecks many other types of gameplay in the process.
Knowing I will get transported back to the last outpost/station I visited doesn't make me less scared of dying, it usally makes me *more* scared-as it is usually a massive setback in so many ways. Insta-transport is the opposite of a setback, pure and simple.
I don't think anyone has an issue with the transportation of ships, its the insta stuff that is the point of debate, and I at least think it could be implemented in a far more interesting way which enhances the game. But as you say, it makes all the other ship ranges redundant..
Slopey
Volunteer Moderator
I just can't believe that a game in the official "Elite" franchise will seriously feature instantly teleporting ships between stations, so you can do the 'gameplay' right now, when you want to.
It's just ludicrous. I can't even think of any other space games which let you do that. The whole "it's a space ship, it goes though space", not get teleported, because then you don't need ships. And 3D printing, but you need a licence? That's so weak it's laughable.
And for an ELITE game?????? The best and most lauded example of the genre, across virtually every platform and machine since the 80s? I mean ???
Teleporting? Sure some rubbish overpriced space game by EA or Ubisoft, or a dodgy early access tech demo on Steam which the developers never finish.
But an official ELITE game????
*sheesh*
Can we just rename it to Space Combat or Instant Space Wars or something, and at least let the brand keep some dignity?
It's just ludicrous. I can't even think of any other space games which let you do that. The whole "it's a space ship, it goes though space", not get teleported, because then you don't need ships. And 3D printing, but you need a licence? That's so weak it's laughable.
And for an ELITE game?????? The best and most lauded example of the genre, across virtually every platform and machine since the 80s? I mean ???
Teleporting? Sure some rubbish overpriced space game by EA or Ubisoft, or a dodgy early access tech demo on Steam which the developers never finish.
But an official ELITE game????
*sheesh*
Can we just rename it to Space Combat or Instant Space Wars or something, and at least let the brand keep some dignity?
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Well i take pride in only having only one re-buy on my record but different strokes for different folks i suppose, play your own way includes loosing ships without concern, what a great game elite is if even loosing is a valid play style. My primary objective is to not have my ship destroyed everything else is secondary to that goal.
But if making loosing ones ship irreverent to forward a debate I,m not sure i can counter that, I suppose you win the debate I only win the game. which would be highly annoying if i had paid good money to play the forum.
Finally, for once in a brief moment of time we are focusing our grievances towards Frontier which is where they always should have belonged rather than being set against one another.
Commanders of the Galaxy Unite! All we have to gain is a better game.
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Because they are unable to master the technology to transfer market data to a ship in the next system.
I've read the answers and I'm not happy.
People have offered far more salient issues about FSD, griefing etc, but those really stick in my craw. Ships become worth far less in a game where ships are the draw.
Thanks for the feedback Michael, I do think however these core player-side issues will still remain and as you can see are severely damaging the game for a lot of players. This isn't a disgruntled issue about a game mechanic, like Engineers brought, this is an issue which people feel strong breaks their immersion within the world. If there was even a 10-14 minute wait that would at least give the Sign of in-world machinations. I think that's really all it needs.
Yes many outside the forums will jump for joy, but as with anything, if you give a big reward - especially in video games you risk the reward devaluing the object. People prize what they work hard for. Those who think this is great now, might find in practice their ships, and thus their attachment to Elite being far less peripheral (in my opinion). I really urge you guys to consider this, not as some hardcore resistence to a move that will be popular, but people with player-side strong investment and understanding of the game really trying to show how this will damage the game for them and quite likely for others.
A middle-ground could surely be found. I appreciate that you want to cater for all those pro this, and there will be many, but your forums are awash with loyal consumers who really, really, really find this game breaking. A middleground should surely only be fair that doesn't take too much from either groups?
- 3-D printing is just a bad excuse for me. Especially straight after the Engineers - that just doesn't fly. Who would want their own private modifications duplicated? I can appreciate the idea that some stuff is cheaper to send via ship so manual ferrying trade isn't damaged by 3-D printing, but if the printing is so cheap, wouldn't it be the other way round? Either way, do I want that rust bucket I love destroyed one end and rebuilt from god-knows what the other? I could see this being done for prefab material for colonies, but freelance owned machines? No, as someone said, better to have no explanation than go down a path that isn't very "frontier" for frontier.
- Following on from that the insta-transport does devalue ships. It affects the game on so many levels in Open, but in Solo, you no longer look for missions that fit your status, you just swap your ship to fit the mission. I think people would prefer bases if that was the case, which I think was why people wanted ship moving - so they could take a dock as a base for a while to work from with their ships, not to have their ships "printed up wherever they go". Equally you are far less likely to travel. If your other ship is a system a way, you're more likely to call it up than go get it - which is travel... the point of Elite... which leads me to the biggest issue (for me)
- Your ship feels like an asset number. It's not in Lave system waiting to be used or ferried, it's an asset number you can call up whenever you need it for a nominal fee. It might as well be in your backpack. The ship loses not just its worth as a point of use, but in itself it becomes just a piece of game code with no illusion of immersion to even attempt to mask it.
People have offered far more salient issues about FSD, griefing etc, but those really stick in my craw. Ships become worth far less in a game where ships are the draw.
Thanks for the feedback Michael, I do think however these core player-side issues will still remain and as you can see are severely damaging the game for a lot of players. This isn't a disgruntled issue about a game mechanic, like Engineers brought, this is an issue which people feel strong breaks their immersion within the world. If there was even a 10-14 minute wait that would at least give the Sign of in-world machinations. I think that's really all it needs.
Yes many outside the forums will jump for joy, but as with anything, if you give a big reward - especially in video games you risk the reward devaluing the object. People prize what they work hard for. Those who think this is great now, might find in practice their ships, and thus their attachment to Elite being far less peripheral (in my opinion). I really urge you guys to consider this, not as some hardcore resistence to a move that will be popular, but people with player-side strong investment and understanding of the game really trying to show how this will damage the game for them and quite likely for others.
A middle-ground could surely be found. I appreciate that you want to cater for all those pro this, and there will be many, but your forums are awash with loyal consumers who really, really, really find this game breaking. A middleground should surely only be fair that doesn't take too much from either groups?
We can't name them and they have no plan to introduce naming. Braben originally stated one pilot, one ship. He was against multiple ships from the outset. So this one of those WTH features any way you look at it. It looks like the left and right hands are not communicating.
Too true Slopey, the bit that bothers me most about instant ship transfer is the lack of foresight, as I said earlier there is practically zero scope for improvements on depth and gameplay in an instant Elite world. At least with a delay Frontier could leave possibilities open to build on the mechanic and make it deep and immersive. As I said earlier, as have others possible future enhancements to delayed travel could include:-
- Missions for players to transport other player ships with insurance safeguards.
- Missions for player to escort player ships to locations.
- Missions for players to attack and dsetroy player ships en-route to CG's and the like.
- Missions for NPC's to do all of the above.
- 'Progression missions' for NPC ship transfer pilots to become your combat wingmen of the future.
I could add more to the list but the point is 'instant' offers none of that.