Combat is Infuriating

[grae3107]

Firstly I have been part of Elite Dangerous since the Alpha and have logged more hours than I can remember. I recently took a break just after but have returned for 2.5 and now I find combat very un-enjoyable.

I know that the AI need an upgrade and I was all for that but since I have come back I don't enjoy it at all. Maybe I just to brush up on my flight skills, maybe Star Citizen flight controls have given me some bad habits, I don't know. What I do know is I will be spending more time dong non-combat things, at least for a while.

 

[zimms]

Could you at least give us more details? What exactly is it you don't like now about combat?

And yes, Elite's ships don't behave like turrets (since you mentioned SC), but that's always been like that.

 

[cptdavep]

I really like it now, in the past it was just a matter of point at circling ship, pull trigger until it goes pop. Now I find it really challenging, and I find I can only just take out ships that are evenly matched with me.

Prime example was yesterday I was returning from Maia in my Clipper and it's new filthy class V drives. Interdicted by a dangerous python who just had to have the 1t of exhaust manifold I was still carrying (guess he needed them for his own upgrade but didn't want to return to the bubble). I could have run as I had nothing to gain from the fight except fun. I chose the fun. After a few minutes of frantic, exciting scraping I was on the verge of victory with his hull down to 21% while I was at 42% when the cunning monkey blasted out my power plant, then had a few frantic moments of drifting before EJECT EJECT EJECT BOOM! Cost me loads of money and had to start my journey again but it was totally worth it for the experience I wouldn't have had with the old AI.

 

[Siranui]

Do you mean 'combat in a combat ship' or 'using a multi-role ship in combat'? The later just got harder, to the point where if you are in a trader, or multi-role, it pays to think twice before blithely submitting to an interdict in complete confidence that you can blow Anacondas away in a trade-fit Cobras. The AI was appalling before to the point where we would not think twice about such things.

Give it two weeks of practice and you will probably look back and wonder what you were worried about. If that doesn't help, maybe look at having your combat rank reset to Harmless via support.

 

[Cosmos]

I recently took a break just after but have returned for 2.5 and now I find combat very un-enjoyable.

Not only do we have teleportation now, we also have time travel.. How are the Thargoids in 2.5 btw?

 

[Queex]

in the past it was just a matter of point at circling ship, pull trigger until it goes pop.

That's kind of the opposite of what happened, in my experience.

Now, the AI just loops around you forever, regardless of whether it's winning the exchange of fire or not. Before, it did all kinds of different things. Granted, most of them were bad ideas and made the AI a bit pants, but it was more interesting than an endless series of looping battles.

 

[Dimensions]

The current build is 2.1. If the OP means npc AI it is worth pointing out that npcs in general are much more lethal now, and those ranked dangerous and above are much better in terms of flight skills and ship loadouts than before. If you are fighting in a large ship you may find you have a much harder time trying to to get smaller ships in your sights to fire at. I would say for hardcore PvE bounty hunting you need a few engineer mods to put you back on the same level as pre-2.1. for me I needed a significant mod boost in shield strength, thrusters and power plant to feel comfortable again in haz res sites and conflict zones. Shield strength is more important now as almost all npcs seem to carry plasma accelerators now, and use them to much better effect than good players (they very rarely miss).

 

[NCFCpaul]

Got to agree with the op - combat doesn't work well for me now. I do it for a time but then run out of patience and go and do something else. I'm now off to the void to visit Beagles Point and hopefully get Elite explorer rank on my return (13% into pioneer now). But surely it's the variety of the game that makes it so good and gives it the longevity many of us seem to enjoy.

 

[Bounder]

That's kind of the opposite of what happened, in my experience.

Now, the AI just loops around you forever, regardless of whether it's winning the exchange of fire or not. Before, it did all kinds of different things. Granted, most of them were bad ideas and made the AI a bit pants, but it was more interesting than an endless series of looping battles.

Same here, i only fire up ED once in a while, just to try the Incursion training mission, since biplane dogfighting is the only thing a space sim with a speed limit is gonna be any good for.. but it's just dire. I can kill the first few enemies, but then the game lapses into an interminable looping contest...

I play with a TrackIR, so inevitably end up in this contorted position with my head tilted back to keep eyes on the target, while back to the ED core game of nudging a big clunky joystick up a bit, left a bit.. round and round and round we go... where does it stop? Right here, as i log off and go back to FFE.

The problem ED has is its restriction on freedom of movement, in custard/space. By modelling the vacuum as a reactive fluid with velocity-dependent viscosity, it takes too long to rotate or move the craft in any direction, so anything you might try to break out of the loop and gain some advantage ('FA-off', reverse thrust etc.), inevitably means exposing yourself to attack while you wait, and wait, and wait... for your ship to rotate in response to your inputs.

And this is why there's a positive pressure on players and AI to just lapse into a dull robotoc loop-de-loop.

It is, literally, circle strafing, but in the wrong plane, precluding effective fire exchanges, much less any hint of air-ace piloting thrills.

Contrast that with FFE - sure, you can circle-strafe, joust etc., but you can also run rings around opponents and be as creative as you like, holding right on top of them with a little thought and skill.

ED has tried to force 'balance' in a top-down manner, instead of letting it emerge in a naturalistic way in a fully-free environment. To me, ED is all about contraint, constraint and more constraint, it's being baited with nice graphics while stuck in gloop. Float like a heffalump, sting like a gnat.

How anyone finds that fun or rewarding is beyond me..

 

[duffbeeeer]

Same here, i only fire up ED once in a while, just to try the Incursion training mission, since biplane dogfighting is the only thing a space sim with a speed limit is gonna be any good for.. but it's just dire. I can kill the first few enemies, but then the game lapses into an interminable looping contest...

I play with a TrackIR, so inevitably end up in this contorted position with my head tilted back to keep eyes on the target, while back to the ED core game of nudging a big clunky joystick up a bit, left a bit.. round and round and round we go... where does it stop? Right here, as i log off and go back to FFE.

The problem ED has is its restriction on freedom of movement, in custard/space. By modelling the vacuum as a reactive fluid with velocity-dependent viscosity, it takes too long to rotate or move the craft in any direction, so anything you might try to break out of the loop and gain some advantage ('FA-off', reverse thrust etc.), inevitably means exposing yourself to attack while you wait, and wait, and wait... for your ship to rotate in response to your inputs.

And this is why there's a positive pressure on players and AI to just lapse into a dull robotoc loop-de-loop.

It is, literally, circle strafing, but in the wrong plane, precluding effective fire exchanges, much less any hint of air-ace piloting thrills.

Contrast that with FFE - sure, you can circle-strafe, joust etc., but you can also run rings around opponents and be as creative as you like, holding right on top of them with a little thought and skill.

ED has tried to force 'balance' in a top-down manner, instead of letting it emerge in a naturalistic way in a fully-free environment. To me, ED is all about contraint, constraint and more constraint, it's being baited with nice graphics while stuck in gloop. Float like a heffalump, sting like a gnat.

How anyone finds that fun or rewarding is beyond me..

Do you fly with flight assist on? If yes, pls try to disable it and see how that goes. Change vector with boost while in FA off. No looping for me.

 

[JuicerPrime]

That's kind of the opposite of what happened, in my experience.

Now, the AI just loops around you forever, regardless of whether it's winning the exchange of fire or not. Before, it did all kinds of different things. Granted, most of them were bad ideas and made the AI a bit pants, but it was more interesting than an endless series of looping battles.

Not too fond of the looping myself, but it's the ramming which does my nut in. I had one Dangerous FdL I was dogfighting recently just suddenly up and suicide against my shields, boosted straight at me with its shields down and stripped itself from 20% hull to 1%. It died a couple of seconds later, but that kind of behaviour is definitely not what I'd call challenging - more like cunningly disguised lemming mode.

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

I agree. Combat is dreadful. Every fight devolves into FA/off reverse thrusting in a loop until the AI decides it wants to repeatedly ram my ship. I'll take the old AI any day, minus the rotisserie bug.

 

[AstroCreep]

I've found combat far more engaging than it ever used to be, now the NPC are actually tough and you have to pick your battles very carefully (the way it should be). They still have some minor quirks and "moments" but then the AI will never be 1:1 with a Human opponent, keep improving them with each Patch is fine with me, certainly don't dumb them down any more!

 

[Eloy]

Again this topic?
Again I say: yes, combat is no shootem up any more. Outfit your ship properly if it's a slow one (mines are fun). Pick your opponents wisely or flee.

 

[Queex]

Again this topic?
Again I say: yes, combat is no shootem up any more. Outfit your ship properly if it's a slow one (mines are fun). Pick your opponents wisely or flee.

That doesn't really fix how dull the fights usually are even with a properly outfitted ship, though...

 

[Kizbot]

Reset.

I can whole heartedly assure you that you will find the combat easy again, if you roll back to harmless rank. Either reset the save or if you really cant swallow losing everything else then beg support to rub your combat rank away. I don't know if they will but worth a shot.

I reset and it really didn't take long to get back into a AspX.

 

[Modgier]

Reset.

I can whole heartedly assure you that you will find the combat easy again, if you roll back to harmless rank. Either reset the save or if you really cant swallow losing everything else then beg support to rub your combat rank away. I don't know if they will but worth a shot.

I reset and it really didn't take long to get back into a AspX.

Doesn't change the fact that high rank NPCs are absurdly overpowered.

 

[dutchy2000]

Doesn't change the fact that *I feel that* high rank NPCs are absurdly overpowered.

There fixed that for you, for you they are over powered. For me they are complete push overs. I am elite combat rank, I get elite pirates after my tasty cargo fairly frequently, every 7th or 8th jump. if I bother to shoot them, they barely every shoot back or hit me. Ones with turrets are the most annoying ones since they actually hit me sometimes. If I am in my FDL, and something interdicts me, the fight doesn't last more than 30 seconds usually before they are toast (its fully upgraded with lvl 5 mods on everything that would affect the outcome). If it wasn't fully upgraded the fight would last maybe a minute. It really doesn't matter what interdicts me, anaconda/python/another FLD/FAS they are all terrible at elite rank.

So in short, GIT GUD, its not that hard.

 

[Mr_Blastman]

Firstly I have been part of Elite Dangerous since the Alpha and have logged more hours than I can remember. I recently took a break just after but have returned for 2.5 and now I find combat very un-enjoyable.

I know that the AI need an upgrade and I was all for that but since I have come back I don't enjoy it at all. Maybe I just to brush up on my flight skills, maybe Star Citizen flight controls have given me some bad habits, I don't know. What I do know is I will be spending more time dong non-combat things, at least for a while.

SC has awful flight controls and the extremely unbalanced mouse aim makes it just a no play kind of game.

 

[Heavenly-Hammer]

Doesn't change the fact that high rank NPCs are absurdly overpowered.

Nah. I was out fighting in a high conflict zone last night for an engineer material. Killed 27 ships including a few Elite corvettes and Condas (most of the ships were elite) and lost maybe 2 shield rings the entire time. I did leave once because I started running out of ammo.

Manage your pips well, work on your aim. I find it considerably more fun now. Though I understand some may prefer the good ol days of ships doing the death spin and offering little resistance because it means stacking money faster. I just don't think that sort of gameplay (essentially target practice) was fun. YMMV.