I was going to make a similar thread, except mine was going to be called "can players manoeuvre the same way npcs do?". What prompted this is seeing heavy medium and large ships performing 180 degree vertical hairpin turns in 4 secs without losing speed to face you. at the moment I'm flying my FDL and I come across other FDLs that can literally turn into their foot print at high speed and come straight back at me. Having flown a FDL for quite some time and knowing its quirks, especially concerning inertia when doing 180 degree turns I'm baffled as to how they can do this. I have grade 5 dirty drive class A thrusters. I doubt that even a stripped FDL, with grade 5 dirty drives and FA off could do that in a player's hands.
Super maneuverable large ships...
- Thread starter SkipRat
- Start date
The Clipper is the Empire equivalent of the FAS, albeit with slightly worse hardpoint place and being a little bit power starved depending on it build. It's very fast, very manoeuvrable in the right hands and packs a punch. It's downsides are terrible shields, fairly weak hull and only being able to land on a large pad (it's width is thr problem).
My Clipper does a full 360 in less than 6 seconds, boosts to 582 and has prismatic shielding.
My Clipper does a full 360 in less than 6 seconds, boosts to 582 and has prismatic shielding.
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1) For start, people started on my, only one person asked for details, there rest went straight for the insults, you can't fly blah blah. So please don't lecture me on face palming people. I have every right too.
2) As for a bad pilot, yes of course it will be able to out turn, but that is an argument that goes without saying. It is like pointing out that a Porshe GT3 can't beat a robin reliant in a drag race if the driver doesn't know how to drive a car. It's pointless argument. Take from the point that most players who have been playing since the pre-release beta, 3-1 KD rate in CQC and been playing space sim's for nearly 30 years, would at least be competent enough to be able to turn a ship with thrusters and in the blue.
So taking that point on board, it is fair to say that large ships should never be able to out turn smaller more nimble ships, they would need to rely on turret based weapons to take them out. And yes a smaller ship should be able to stay on a larger ships six, its more nimble, just like the fighters v bombers in WWII. The difficulty for the little ships is taking down the larger ship on its own as the weapons are not large enough to do any significant damage to the shields or hull. Hence why you would need to use swarm tactics and target the weapons first.
Yeah, your general, unspecific complaint at game thread did indeed meet some unnecessary hostility. Maybe part of that was due to the posts's fairly aggressive and vague nature, maybe not. But you rose to it, and are now being hostile to people who are potentially trying to help you.
Move on from that.
Well, after 4 pages all we have had conveyed is that the 'large ships out-turning me' was a single Clipper, of unknown build, with an unknown level pilot, fighting an 'A rated' Cobra of unknown configuration, which may or may not have had a hold full of cargo. And we have been informed that you are very good at games which aren't Elite: Dangerous, but we have no idea about your level of skill in the game we are discussing.
You aren't giving us much to go on here. :/
You're thinking of capital ships. These are not capital ships. Not even the Corvette or the Cutter are that big. You want big Elite ships? Try the Farragut and the Majestic. Those are the slow ships relying on turrets, not what we pilots fly.
No, I don't want Capital ships.
Clippers, Corvettes, Anaconda's are all still big heavy ships compared to small fighters like eagles and cobra MKIII. And yes, when you ahave an extra 1000 tons of mass (just on hull alone) it makes a huge difference handling. Hence why they need much bigger engines and fuel yadda yadda.
I still can't see how you can claim "Veterancy" and put that you got your ship's backside handed back to you...
I found myself many times in a losing condition (included T6 vs Clipper) and always managed to escape.
Lo and behold, I have played the same Wing Commander/X-Wing/whatever you put space games in the past.
Plus- I know when I'm outclassed.
An A-Rated cobra Mk.III IS outclassed by an A-Rated Clipper. Period.
What can save you is experience. Veterancy, let's call it.
If you know yourself AND the enemy you can't be beaten. (Bugs excluded)
If I was in a Cobra Mk.III and faced a random NPC Clipper I'd be VERY cautious.
And first thing I always when engaged is to asceratin the enemy pilot's Rank.
I'm sorry you felt robbed of a victory.
Now, try to make a lesson out of it, not just a punishment.
Also- read back your original post. Do you really think that's a good way to ask anyone remotely interested in your playtime about a specific consideration?
Id' use a bit more tact, and put as many details as possible.
Otherwise people who don't know you might take it for a rant...
Peace.
I found myself many times in a losing condition (included T6 vs Clipper) and always managed to escape.
Lo and behold, I have played the same Wing Commander/X-Wing/whatever you put space games in the past.
Plus- I know when I'm outclassed.
An A-Rated cobra Mk.III IS outclassed by an A-Rated Clipper. Period.
What can save you is experience. Veterancy, let's call it.
If you know yourself AND the enemy you can't be beaten. (Bugs excluded)
If I was in a Cobra Mk.III and faced a random NPC Clipper I'd be VERY cautious.
And first thing I always when engaged is to asceratin the enemy pilot's Rank.
I'm sorry you felt robbed of a victory.
Now, try to make a lesson out of it, not just a punishment.
Also- read back your original post. Do you really think that's a good way to ask anyone remotely interested in your playtime about a specific consideration?
Id' use a bit more tact, and put as many details as possible.
Otherwise people who don't know you might take it for a rant...
Peace.
As said, the clipper is 400t, which is the same as most medium sized ships, and the Anaconda. And honestly, just because the games vision for ships does not conform with other games you played, that doesn't mean that it's a game logic or mechanic fault. This is how ships operate in elite. Yes, you picked a fight with the nimblest of the ones that look big, but it can be beat. Same way as you can destroy an anaconda with a DBS. You just have to be aware of the quirks the ship has and exploit them. for the conda it's a slow turn rate. For the Clipper it's the weapon hardpoints and a very bad lateral control.
Oh and don't try to subsystem target reactors on a Clipper. It's in the neck, and very hard to hit.
And if you fly an Eagle or a Cobra right, you're perfectly able to stay in their dead angle.
4A Thrusters
4C Bioweave
1G 2x Gimble pulse
2F 2x Multicannons
3D life support
4A Jump drive
3A Power plant
Heat Sink
Chaff
24 Tons of silver at the time
Nope, as soon as I turned to face it, it would already be facing me... I just could no turn quick enough.
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5 pages of great reading.
Now, the pitch rate of a Viper Mk3 BAHAHAHAHA what a joke.... no small ship/interceptor should ever pitch that badly...and don't give me "balance" reasons
I agree, the viper should be nasty in combat, it is what it is designed for, yet is slightly less nimble than the Cobra MKIII and IMO, I think the Cobra MKIII is a better combat ship than the viper. Not that many people use it, because the ship is more or less pointless, it's just cannon fodder.
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Thr Cobra isn't the best manoeuvring small ship anyway. That will have been hampered further by your cargo. The Clipper is one of the best pitching ships in the game and one of the fastest
Great so this game has become upgrade with engineers or no chance.
Well, that is utterly rubbish.
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Which is why I said one of the best.
DBS, Vulture and Eagle are IIRC.
And all things being equal, they generally can't. The flight model favours the more agile ships. The generalisation that larger ships out turn smaller ones is completely untrue.
However, in certain situations it isn't true. You seem to believe those margin/edge cases should not exist *at all*?
Don't generalise that argument into 'large, heavy ships versus small fighters', because that's a rather different conversation. The Clipper is built for speed and agility at the cost of a bunch of other factors - including landing pad size. The hull mass is similar to a Python. It could have had an Elite pilot in it and hence uses thrusters and pips fast and effectively, and potentially tuned drives.
Ultimately the Cobra is fast and fairly agile, but still a multi-role ship. And if you have not played for months it is completely legit that you were outflown by the new NPC.
Now, given the Clipper isn't going to get nerfed... how are we going to improve the thing that can be improved in this equation?
Nope, learn to fly efficiently or use dirty drive upgrade if you have trouble keeping up with NPC's. All my ships have strengthened drives (except canyon runners), drive strengthening actually lowers maneuverability.
The upgrades are optional. But if a person is having problems. Then they can be handy to even the odds.
Also. I didn't have to put a lot of mods on my Anaconda. But sense I wanted to have a 55+ jump range for exploring faster. I did. I didn't need to, but I find it fun to cross 1000LY in less than 20 min.
Also. I didn't have to put a lot of mods on my Anaconda. But sense I wanted to have a 55+ jump range for exploring faster. I did. I didn't need to, but I find it fun to cross 1000LY in less than 20 min.