You're re-framing and misinterpreting my point there - my point was that this change makes quite a big change to the mechanics of the game for what has been passed off as a small "QoL" patch. My point is that it has ramifications and that those are that it increases the advantage richer players have more than already exists, and that that is not positive. Engineering doesn't do that because the availability of materials isn't tied to the amount of money or ship type that you have. The cost of ships and modules is one of the core differentiators between players in terms of their ships and how much money they have made - what I was saying is that this is a further significant differentiator which I don't think should be rushed in (especially when there are other issues with it).
The Galaxy - Is its size now considered to be a barrier to gameplay by the Developers?
- Thread starter Robert Maynard
- Start date
You're re-framing and misinterpreting my point there - my point was that this change makes quite a big change to the mechanics of the game for what has been passed off as a small "QoL" patch. My point is that it has ramifications and that those are that it increases the advantage richer players have more than already exists, and that that is not positive. Engineering doesn't do that because the availability of materials isn't tied to the amount of money or ship type that you have. The cost of ships and modules is one of the core differentiators between players in terms of their ships and how much money they have made - what I was saying is that this is a further significant differentiator which I don't think should be rushed in (especially when there are other issues with it).
Considering what else is coming with 2.2 .. Ship transfer and its potential impact on the game will seem far less important at that point.
In the end currently rich players already have an advantage and will continue to do so regardless of this. Just as people who can play the game for 15 hours straight will over people that can only get a couple of hours in.
Personally I couldn't about such stuff, I will be wiping for 2.2 like I do with every update.
This might be more convenient for newer (and maybe a younger demographic?) players but its driving many of us away. I'm now gutted I put money enough into the kickstarter to get free updates.
Since launch I have been (mostly) happy with most aspects of the game and have eagerly awaited each new update, this 3D ship printing and instant transfer or owned ships is pushing it to far and I wish i could refuse to buy any new updates as my own small protest.
The game was sold to me as being a semi realistic, almost sim type game and each new about turn in policy that gives in to the demand for an "easy" game takes it further from that original plan. There are many many easy games these people could play, why they have to turn up here, complain about this one and get it ruined I have no idea.
I get why FD are doing it, they need to make money and as the game becomes more to modern tastes they'll sell more, but I haven't loaded it up since those announcements and I can't see why I ever would want to now that the whole flavour is changing.
For almost two years we've had gameplay mechanics that force us to travel and accept that the size of the galaxy forces us to make allowances and now it's being shrunk for the sake of some players who want things to happen faster.
Well screw you guys, thanks for crapping on a game I waited 30 years for AND put (A lot compared to what i was earning at the time) money in to getting made just to see it tunring into just another version of a modern style game.
I'd be seriously interesting in knowing how many original backers vs how many newer players support this new update.
Since launch I have been (mostly) happy with most aspects of the game and have eagerly awaited each new update, this 3D ship printing and instant transfer or owned ships is pushing it to far and I wish i could refuse to buy any new updates as my own small protest.
The game was sold to me as being a semi realistic, almost sim type game and each new about turn in policy that gives in to the demand for an "easy" game takes it further from that original plan. There are many many easy games these people could play, why they have to turn up here, complain about this one and get it ruined I have no idea.
I get why FD are doing it, they need to make money and as the game becomes more to modern tastes they'll sell more, but I haven't loaded it up since those announcements and I can't see why I ever would want to now that the whole flavour is changing.
For almost two years we've had gameplay mechanics that force us to travel and accept that the size of the galaxy forces us to make allowances and now it's being shrunk for the sake of some players who want things to happen faster.
Well screw you guys, thanks for crapping on a game I waited 30 years for AND put (A lot compared to what i was earning at the time) money in to getting made just to see it tunring into just another version of a modern style game.
I'd be seriously interesting in knowing how many original backers vs how many newer players support this new update.
You caught me, I haven't read all 110 pages
. I've read a non-zero number of pages in this thread though and when I see someone refer to the ASP as the penultimate example of why not having a timed delay on ship transfers is a bad idea, Its clear that what they really don't like is that they can go somewhere in an ASP and transfer another ship once there (I won't even touch on the people that seem to think they're going to transport the players themselves all over the galaxy which is more than one posted...) and that "issue" is with transporting ships, not timed delays. I don't know how many people are truely for transfers but feel like it needs to give you a timer to watch before it happens, but From my skimming I do not feel it's a very high number. How can a timer of 20 minutes change the balance of the game? It can't, nothing is happening at that pace. Community goals last days not minutes.
Can you justify an argument against instant transfers without A) bringing in an argument against transfers in general such as jump distance, and B) bringing up role play which we are not all into.
I promise I'll read the whole thread tonight and if I read a convincing argument that satisfies those two points I'll give them rep and give my position a once over.
Otherwise Maybe you've got to ask yourself if you really support transfers, which is a fair viewpoint. I'm for them but I see where it can cause problems. But if we're going to have them, there shouldn't be fake delays.
I don't agree with it , but I'm not going to stop playing ED because of it, and I am an 84'r and an original backer.
You are way too emotionally invested at this point, thinking YOUR game has been ruined because of the casual crowd. Well ED was never going to be like the originals that much was obvious from the very start. You need to take those rose tinted spectacles off, this isn't 1984.
To be honest I wish they would not put a credit price on it.
It's just an uneeded barrier, if ship transfer is instant specifically to facilitate stuff (gameplay) being accessible to players, then just make it free.
It's not like adding a charge makes it more realistic in any way.
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They don't. They have to plan to avoid suffering from their own lack of forethought.And you surely cannot really think that setting an alarm makes the fact that this trashes any common sense or immersion go away/ That make it worse since you are reminded twice about the gamey stuff.
And then you still have all the issues caused by instant being in the game - they do not go away.
My take on it, if FD is reading or care, is they should just go with instant transport as a convenience and a game hand-wavium and not do any lore at all. It is what it is, a convenience for players of a game.
Trying to do lore around this is a huge mistake. Just assume, like loading ship and changing modules, etc. that it does take time but Player does not have to experience that and stupidly wait ages to play a video game.
I hate the 3D molecular printing, whatever lore. With a passion.
Fighters should be treated just like SRV- if it goes down, buy another at the next port. Ship transfer is instant, get over it.
The only thing FD should do, is to ensure a ship can make the jumps required to be delivered. Without a doubt that must be done. Otherwise I could care less if it takes 1 second or 20, once we get to arbitrary time delay it is just that, arbitrary. Cost is OK to increase on distance since pilot would want more pay per LY travelled.
I like the FD proposal except for the LORE. Ditch that junk and make fighters not-printed but just as SRV are today and all is good.
Seriously, multiplayer works but changing a ship in a station is no big deal, you can trade one in and get a different ship instantly already, today, in the game!
Sheeps are blowing this out of proportion.
But please FD, drop the lore and make fighters like SRV today. You will be glad you did this. It is the only thing that makes sense and doesn't get into weird, stupid, loopy game lore insanity.
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Or that something unexpected, spontaneous or spur of the moment happened.
No, there should be REAL time delays, based on the jump range of the ship you're transferring. Fake delays are pointless and achieve nothing, instant transfers transform the way you play the game, even a real time transfer cuts a large chunk of time off as you don't have to go back for your ship but it seems that's not enough for the devs, I think they sold out their vision to keep the cash cow alive with no real thought about how it effects the lore and back story of the game.
It's disappointing and I'm annoyed at myself, at my age I got fooled by a bloody game company and my nostalgia for an old game that was fun and didn't compromise.
But that's what is was sold as, a remake with all the extra features DB wasn't able to add because the technology was lacking and of course I'm emotionally involved, why else would anyone back a game based on a few videos and a love for an old game?
No, no, no.
All this lore junk about 3d printing is a can of worms as Adept has said. Avoid it. Otherwise nothing makes any sense - 3d print anything at a pirate base; what pirate cares about a "license".
It is a player convenience that I think most persons wont give 2 cents about once it is implemented. I think FD stick to the plan but stop with rationalizing it!
And, along the same lines, fighters must be treated just as SRV, if one is lost you have to buy another at a starport. Done. all is good.
Aye, I don't like the idea of a DRM galaxy.
This from the Kickstarter :
But if it were the lore you could imagine some isolated Imperial systems offering unlicensed copies of ships.
But that unlicensed Gunship you're flying that cost you a quarter of the price? It's not legit, no insurance.
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I agree with you but making me wait while the arrival time is simulated isn't fun to me or for 1/2 of this discussion so your argument has a serious flaw.
"Based on" means it's fake. If I had to wait because someone was literally flying the ship to that station, that's a different story. If they were implementing it so that I could take a job as a ship holler… And then sort out all the various problems that arise from who pays for an accident… I would be much more "four" that then for this simulate a delay
But we're not talking about creating a whole new class of jobs for people to do in the game, we're talking about whether or not the transfer should be instant or use a simulated time delay. Between those two, I have to go for instant.
Heck, I'll give one more way that I would except this delay. Have an a I bought fly it through open. LOL, yes I think I could go for that.
Edit: ahh, dictation on my phone. I'm not even going to fix the mistakes, they add character.
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It's not about having "fake delays", a lot of people want a delay that makes the transfer seem more realistic, but anyway, one example:
A timer of 20 minutes stops the free transfer of ships making a difference and in fact a timer of 5 minutes makes a difference. If you're running fortification in PowerPlay there is a way that you could use free transfers to increase your fortification capacity by around 30% - I've already explained how so check my previous posts for the details (and this also applies to CGs). PowerPlay is time limited and competitive so the amount of fortification that a group can ship (especially at specific times, such as approaching the tick) is important to how PowerPlay is balanced. FD is aware of this which is why there are other rate-limiting mechanisms in place (such as fort packages being on 30 minute timers unless they're paid for, and having to collect those in 50 unit intervals).
This change means that fortification, prep and expansion (for hauling powers) can be easier and faster - so it will affect the balance of that aspect of the game. A delay of even 5 minutes nullifies that because it removes the time advantage of being able to call up a "taxi" vessel (which may save you 5 minutes per run - which over an hour could be 15 minutes, allowing an entire extra run).
According to the way MB has discussed it, that ship has sailed. Printing is in.
IF it's a matter of making it easier to bring your pew pew ships to the party, you can anywhere there's a Coriolis.
Gating which ships can be printed where because of space and power requirements is logical.
Additionally it it seems that the printing of ships may feed into the commodities markets (he mentioned there was an economical process). This would make the need to transport or provide raw materials for construction scale with the size of the ships and thus the economy of the station.
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Huge thread, don't have time to read and it's probably already suggested but would it be terribly difficult to simply give an option for a delayed transfer for a lower cost? Then people who want to save some credits and wait for the ship to arrive are happy and those that want to have instant ship transfer are also happy? Seems this would solve the problem.
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I don't feel like power play is the best defense. It's got to be the most ignored feature, one which no one asked for to begin with. Are CG's really as susceptible to last-minute stocking? It doesn't really seem like it… CG's in my experience have been big enough Affairs that one extra run does not a huge difference make. And considering that both sides of any conflict can use instant transportation… Does it make a real difference? However, rep given.