Super maneuverable large ships...

Ziljan

Ziljan
Large ships outmaneuver small ships? No. But keep pace with them in the turns and completely frustrate normal-flight flanking maneuvers? Yes, very much unfortunately all they have to do to control the encounter is fly backwards. You can goad them into flying forwards getting momentum and then reversing direction past them while they struggle to turn, but in anything but a Viper it's a risky move (unless you have 3572 chaff ammo). And Vipers aren't the best at outurning anything. You can also try to boost-FAoff-brake to attempt to flank them, though this doesn't work if they're flying backward, which is most of the time in a fight. If your ship has a small enough hit box, you can kite them (takes a million years due to damage reduction over range).

But in general, yeah small ships don't have the speed+agility to truly outmaneuver a well flown large ship. They can evade them, and swarm them, but flanking can be extremely challenging even for skilled pilots.

^I have a few other tricks for small ships, but unfortunately those are classified military secrets. ;)
 
Last edited:

PanTast

PanTast
Il-2 is a good idea. But not Cliffs of Dover. Guys like him are not welcome in this community.

ATAG is a friendly community :D

o7
 

DragoonKnight

DragoonKnight
Darrett said:
That's true, which benefits larger ships disproportionately, especially since your vector is maintained during the maneuver which lessens the time to target, but forces a head to head situation. Again, advantage for the large ship. What you describe is exactly what I'd like to see, an increase in firepower and survivability for large ships in exchange for a maneuverability decrease. Ideally, you'd see fewer instances of large ships being outright destroyed, and turn it into a situation where they were either forced to jump out or disabled and pirated, as destroying a huge block of metal like a Type 9 should be more effort than it is worth for most people.
Click to expand...

You have to admit that the Clipper is kind of a special case amongst large ships. I would argue that no other large ship even comes close to the clipper and if it was not for the huge wings, it would be a medium ship. No one seems to complain about how well the FAS and FDL handle. Why complain about the Clipper when it has similar weapons, shields, and pitch rate?
 

SkipRat

SkipRat
DragoonKnight said:
You have to admit that the Clipper is kind of a special case amongst large ships. I would argue that no other large ship even comes close to the clipper and if it was not for the huge wings, it would be a medium ship. No one seems to complain about how well the FAS and FDL handle. Why complain about the Clipper when it has similar weapons, shields, and pitch rate?
Click to expand...

But it's not just about the Clipper though?

What about people have been saying about fast turning corvettes, after upgrades..? Just as bad and game breaking.
 

S'Rau

S
Yeah the mass counts, of course, but it can be offset by the thrust of the engines/thrusters and structural integrity to prevent the ship being cut in two when taking a sharp turn, specially after 1000+ years of space faring experience and technology.

On top of that the clipper is "only" x 2.2 the mass of the cobra, nothing earthshaking really, the only notable difference being the shap of the clipper pushing the ship in the large pad category. This is like having an average car near an average pickup.

No, in fact it doesn't surprise me, the only combat/multirole ship notably more agile than the others being the regular Eagle.
The thing that surprise me on the other hand is that the pilot bothered deploying hard point to kill you. When i was using my clipper, i did'nt, and just used to ram ships below FdL tonnage, saves ammo for the real game.
 
Last edited:

Becks

Becks
SkipRat said:
But it's not just about the Clipper though?

What about people have been saying about fast turning corvettes, after upgrades..? Just as bad and game breaking.
Click to expand...

None of the currently large ships is built for an all turret setup.

If they were you wouldn't have a dead angle at all. And I bet you wouldn't like that either.

Are large ships OP?

Against a single smaller ship, yes. Against a group of smaller ships, no. But you're not supposed to take down a large ship with a single small ship, let alone with a small ship that isn't fully combatfitted.

Would you try to fight a Corvette with a single Cobra? No, because it equals suicide. Even with two Cobras it's pretty much suicide. But three or more small ships you can annoy the hell out of a Corvette pilot before either killing him or forcing him to jump out (or in less glorious cases, make him log).

You demand that the maneuverability of large ships gets nerfed to hell because you lost a fight you couldn't win. You should nerf your overconfidence and buff your self-criticism first, before you open a thread were you blame your own mistakes on 'faulty game mechanics'.
 

Vezdekot

V
Becks said:
None of the currently large ships is built for an all turret setup.

If they were you wouldn't have a dead angle at all. And I bet you wouldn't like that either.

Are large ships OP?

Against a single smaller ship, yes. Against a group of smaller ships, no. But you're not supposed to take down a large ship with a single small ship, let alone with a small ship that isn't fully combatfitted.

Would you try to fight a Corvette with a single Cobra? No, because it equals suicide. Even with two Cobras it's pretty much suicide. But three or more small ships you can annoy the hell out of a Corvette pilot before either killing him or forcing him to jump out (or in less glorious cases, make him log).

You demand that the maneuverability of large ships gets nerfed to hell because you lost a fight you couldn't win. You should nerf your overconfidence and buff your self-criticism first, before you open a thread were you blame your own mistakes on 'faulty game mechanics'.
Click to expand...

Yeah you right.. BF-109 can't take down B-17 bomber.. it's just too small for that. Ahh sorry in real life it can.. but here in Elite where space is full of magic..
 

Becks

Becks
Vezdekot said:
Yeah you right.. BF-109 can't take down B-17 bomber.. it's just too small for that. Ahh sorry in real life it can.. but here in Elite where space is full of magic..
Click to expand...

Yeah, because planes from WWII are sooooo comparable to fictional spaceships in the 34th century. Come back if you have a better comparison.
 

micky1984

M
SkipRat said:
Yes, because obviously playing the entire X-wing and Tie Fighter series, wing commanders, Conflict Freespace 1 & 2 and have handed more than my fair share of players own backsides back to them in CQC... So I obviously can't fly a small ship.

Excuse me whilst I point out the utter arrogance and baseless assumptions of your posts.
Click to expand...
and lets remind you of you initial post lacking in any information generic and baseless MOAN
 

S'Rau

S
You are comparing planes while space fights are more akin to boats.
And in this case i am sorry but i highly doubt a random destroyer could solo sink a random battleship.
 
Last edited:

CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost

C
Becks said:
Yeah, because planes from WWII are sooooo comparable to fictional spaceships in the 34th century. Come back if you have a better comparison.
Click to expand...

Considering that combat in ED is roughly designed around WWII dogfight it's a good comparison.

It only depends on what the developers want the game to be, but history is full of "small, specialized weapons" taking down big targets. There is no reason why in a fictional 34th century world humans wouldn't design cheap weapons designed to destroy large targets.
Torpedos, RPGs, longbows, that throwing aid for spears - humans are very good at inventing stuff to kill mammoths ;)

In the imaginary 34th century a single big ship would realistically get destroyed in a short period of time by small ships.
In the end it doesn't matter as it's all about gameplay and what the developers think is fun.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

S'Rau said:
You are comparing planes while space fights are more akin to boats.
And in this case i am sorry but i highly doubt a random destroyer could solo sink a random battleship.
Click to expand...

Bismark…
 

Vezdekot

V
Becks said:
I apologize, I understood your previous comment as criticism ... my mistake.
Click to expand...

That's ok. You see in real life B-17 ( T-6, or FDL ) was designed to carry bombs (cargo) and bf-109 (eagle) to gain air superiority,they was made from same materials, in elite FDL (B-17) was designed to carry more HP, agility does not matter if you have FAoff.. just boost and FAoff turn.
 

Becks

Becks
CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost said:
Considering that combat in ED is roughly designed around WWII dogfight it's a good comparison.

It only depends on what the developers want the game to be, but history is full of "small, specialized weapons" taking down big targets. There is no reason why in a fictional 34th century world humans wouldn't design cheap weapons designed to destroy large targets.
Torpedos, RPGs, longbows, that throwing aid for spears - humans are very good at inventing stuff to kill mammoths ;)

In the imaginary 34th century a single big ship would realistically get destroyed in a short period of time by small ships.
In the end it doesn't matter as it's all about gameplay and what the developers think is fun.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



Bismark…
Click to expand...

True again, but the Bismarck wasn't sunk by a single plane. :)

Nor did our ancestors kill a mammoth with a single hunter and a single spear.

I have no problem with a group of small ships killing a large ship. I have a problem with nerfing large ships to the point where they can be killed by a single small ship.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Vezdekot said:
That's ok. You see in real life B-17 ( T-6, or FDL ) was designed to carry bombs (cargo) and bf-109 (eagle) to gain air superiority,they was made from same materials, in elite FDL (B-17) was designed to carry more HP, agility does not matter if you have FAoff.. just boost and FAoff turn.
Click to expand...

Sadly we don't have a bomber role yet :( But that's something I really wish would come :D
 

CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost

C
Becks said:
True again, but the Bismarck wasn't sunk by a single plane. :)

Nor did our ancestors kill a mammoth with a single hunter and a single spear.

I have no problem with a group of small ships killing a large ship. I have a problem with nerfing large ships to the point where they can be killed by a single small ship.

…
Click to expand...


OK, then Stinger vs. Mi 24 Hind.

I agree that a "realistic" approach doesn't result in good gameplay, but there is no reason why a big ship shouldn't get destroyed by a small ship beside gameplay. There is no reason why a big ship shouldn't need an escort of small ships to avoid getting destroyed by a single small ship - again, beside gameplay.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom