Dear FD. The hunt begins on the 28th - but ends a few hours later

[Soon(TM)]

If that's the case, and all of the characters featured in this special event and others (such as Salomé) are all NPC's and can be interacted with in Open, Private and Solo, then I must be mistaken. If these special events with Frontier-controlled characters are visible regardless of how you play then there's no issue. [smile]

I was just making a comment based on one of the developers saying this:

If the initial contact with the "alien" or NPCs is indeed going to be controlled by someone at FD then I assume they will be bound by the same rules as us.

I.e we cannot Play in open, private and solo at the time time, so a human controlled NPC will have the same issue - meaning open play is the best options as it gives the greatest chance of encountering other human players and the larger player base.

 

[ROSS-128]

As far as crime and punishment goes, my opinion is that there are two main problems:

1: 6,000cr is peanuts for murder. Come on man. Add at least one zero to that, probably two.

2: Our law enforcement system is senile right now, it forgets far too easily.

I think we need a notoriety system. A criminal rep, if you will. When you do crimes, in addition to bounties you gain notoriety. Notoriety is still specific to the system (with some exceptions, we'll get to those), and it can decay but very slowly. They'll forget a parking ticket in a couple hours, they'll forget an unlawful interdiction in a day or two. Murder though? They'll hold that grudge for years.

Low notoriety doesn't really do anything, though you might find yourself getting scanned more often and find the police giving you the cold shoulder if you're starting to get enough to be considered a miscreant/petty criminal.

As you start to get toward the middle of the notoriety range, your notoriety starts to spread into nearby systems, systems roughly within the typical mission radius (so somewhere around 20 to 40LY) will start to hear of you "through the grapevine", and crimes committed in a system where you're notorious will raise your notoriety in all its neighbors too. Upper-class stations in high security systems where you're notorious will also start closing some station services to you, they don't want your business.

At high notoriety ranges, things get serious. You get exiled from the system: attempt to dock there, at least in a station not controlled by the pirate/anarchist faction, and you'll find the cops waiting for you on the landing pad. Your ship will be impounded, your character will be tried and executed. Whether this just costs the ship (no rebuy, insurance doesn't cover that) or wipes your save is up in the air, but either way the intent is this: if you are Billy the Kid levels of notorious, be very careful where you dock. Higher security systems will exile you faster than lower security systems, because they have a stick up their rear when it comes to that kind of thing. Systems where you're exiled will also never expire your bounties (ie bounties from that system are permanent until actually cashed in by a bounty hunter), and police in that system will give you a "trespassing" bounty every time they lay eyes on you. You made them angry.

A side effect of high notoriety is also that if you've gotten to that level of notoriety in a system, then all its neighbors are probably in the Medium range... which means your reputation is spreading to all *their* neighbors too.

It's not *all* bad though: notoriety will gain you favor with other pirates and criminals. Pirate-controlled stations will offer you better missions, or offer station services that normally aren't available (for example, a pirate shipyard at an outpost that normally doesn't have a shipyard). The expanded services are partially to make up for losing access to almost all big stations (though as long as you haven't been *too* naughty, you could just fly to a system where they haven't heard of you...).

Now, for the exceptions to it being local: committing crimes in a CG system will raise your notoriety in all systems, because events in that system are being broadcast on GalNet. Everyone will see them. Murdering a commander also carries a "bonus" global notoriety increase in addition to the normal local one. This is because the Pilot's Federation will hear about what you did.

Common criminals should be minimally affected by notoriety. The notoriety gain for getting caught smuggling is small and can be managed simply by not getting caught in the same system too many times in a row. Similarly, the notoriety gain for interdiction and assault are small compared to murder, so a pirate should find his notoriety manageable as long as he doesn't make a habit of killing his targets, and of course as long as he keeps on the move to let the heat cool down. If you decide to roleplay as a terrorist or serial killer though? Well first of all you've got some issues to work out, you should probably talk to a therapist about that, but more relevant to this discussion: the game will treat you like one.

 

[Leut]

Well i said i combat logged on "him" I will forever combat log on SDC players who take out an unarmed ASP with there fully modded cutter. Without warning shooting like crazy
However. That's it. If i get interdicted because of my one ton of biowasite.. thats fine... I will fight/flee/die and go on. This is Elite dangerous for me. It should be dangerous.. but not ridiculous!
ANd however you look at it a playergroep like SDC is just ridiculous. No real threats to them. Ok 9000 credits bounty..

So i will play this game and may come into the final clue for tonight. But if an SDC player interdicts me i will combat log again.

"THATS CHEATING! NOT PLAYING GAME MECHANICS!"

I know and for this until Frontier handels this it is MY CHOICE!


....so there

 

[Ian Skippy]

Don't worry type 9 guy, I'll protect you! What's that? I'm not instanced with him? Well then.

Huh. So six or so SCD cmdrs have no issues with that, while the thousands of 'legal' cmdrs can't. Oh cruel world!

 

[Mr_Blastman]

LOL

OP, I will blow you to bits whenever and wherever I feel like it.

And you can do something about it!

You can learn how to fight back or actually respond to messages... or how to escape (which is very easy to do).

Now, as for your particular case--you say you were in a T9 trading? To me, that is criminal. Nobody touches the trade folk! Nobody! Random armed ships, that's fine, but traders? Traders don't get murdered for fun, it's bad for business.

I will gladly defend you for a cut of your cARRRRRRRgo if you tell me where.

 

[ROSS-128]

Huh. So six or so SCD cmdrs have no issues with that, while the thousands of 'legal' cmdrs can't. Oh cruel world!

I will admit, it is partially just really bad luck that the guy happened to be instanced with the people who wanted to kill him.

It actually would have been kind of funny if it had been the other way around, and they were here like "I went all the way out there to kill the event NPC, and he never spawned!" XD

 

[Leut]

LOL

OP, I will blow you to bits whenever and wherever I feel like it.

And you can do something about it!

You can learn how to fight back or actually respond to messages... or how to escape (which is very easy to do).

Now, as for your particular case--you say you were in a T9 trading? To me, that is criminal. Nobody touches the trade folk! Nobody! Random armed ships, that's fine, but traders? Traders don't get murdered for fun, it's bad for business.

I will gladly defend you for a cut of your cARRRRRRRgo if you tell me where.

I can fight back. And no you can't kill me. I'll combat log your ASP (or you are a real pirate and asks for "me cargo" I will give you some)

No i said i was in a ASP without guns. Without any cargo. Not affiliated with a power I was looking for a UP. i understood i had to be in OPEN for that.
I have a Trade cutter as well That thing can outrun my ASP anytime!
No i combat log SDC because ... it annoys them of instead of me

 

[Cmdr TsuMinge]

The debate will turn on Liberty vs Justice.
"they do this because the game mecanics allows it": that's their liberty. ok...
Now they are ruining the game of many other cmdrs (a lot really).This ask some justice...
They are whining about combat log: they created this by attacking without any excuse.
they whined about the "silent": they got heat and they are whining about it now (but are the first to use it...)
Nobody wants to play with them, so please Frontier, it's time to give justice to the 99%

<Duplicate account. post removed >

 

[Diamond Eyez]

yeah just saw the quote



To be honest that's disappointing - guess I'll leave it then .. to FD please stop trying to get me to play with others .. thanks

Seriously???

 

[Leut]

<Duplicate account. post removed >

Like all other games/reality murdering other players have to have more consiquences (not english. dunno if this is spelled right)

 

[ROSS-128]

Well, judging by the Canonn thread, at least that guy wasn't the only event NPC. And so far it looks like most of the others are getting better luck with instancing, and actually getting grouped with commanders who want to talk.

It's also looking like the typical instance size ranges from about 8 to 15 (counting the event ship of course, since it's technically a pilot flown by FD).

Instancing giveth, and instancing taketh away.

 

[Cosmo]

Dear fd,
Please do something about this. Make him feel the pain of killing to! Not just me but every cmdr he killed
Because in the future i WILL combat log on him and his friends again... and again... and again..

Combat logging is not allowed and all combat loggers should be punished (such as a credit fine).

If you don't like PVP then don't participate or get a wing.

 

[Jypson]

I don't mind dying within this game. Because it is stil a game
I do mind dying because of [REDACTED]. His only goal is to do everything a normal player absolutly will not do. (this happened about a week ago)

This is why i Combat logged on his Asp! I admit it, I combat logged on [REDACTED].
This was NOT! pirating. This was NOT! Powerplay. This was, as usual, getting in other peoples way!

For this clip all he got was a 9.000 total credit bounty! REALLY?
The rebuy on this T-9 must be atleast 6.000.000 credits.

I am so dissapointed in FD right now. Today nothing happened to me. I did not even see mister Kohl show up. But i saw his ASP blown out of the sky by a psycho killer who can do what he wants!
This is so unfair!



Dear fd,
Please do something about this. Make him feel the pain of killing to! Not just me but every cmdr he killed
Because in the future i WILL combat log on him and his friends again... and again... and again..

A verry dissapointed Leut
This hunt is over for me

There will be counter-culture in every aspect of life, this is to be expected. Posts like this though, will only embolden them further as your reaction is their honey-suckle. If you feel a rule was broken, report them (for whatever good that does) and allow the experience to fade from memory.

 

[Leut]

Combat logging is not allowed and all combat loggers should be punished (such as a credit fine).

If you don't like PVP then don't participate or get a wing.

Maybe you didnt get it mister Solo BUT I HAD TE BE IN OPEN! I COULD NOT FIND IT IN SOLO!

So i did not participate and logged of

 

[Luniticisi]

Seriously???

Seriously??? .... to what? I didn't back this game to play in open .. the three gameplay modes were in before the game was released and were supposed to all be valid ways of playing the game.. as in .. equal....adding in story elements that for me to experience, I have to play in Open mode .. yes, to me that's disappointing ...

 

[peteuplink]

I think anyone who kills unwanted players for fun in anything other than an anarchy system should be slapped with a wanted level that increases in severity for every kill that's committed, like the wanted level in GTA. Level 1 should be a mild response of system security who will actively seek you out in multiple systems, but you can avoid it by hiding in lawless systems. Also attempting to dock at stations in anything other than an anarchy system should result in being fired upon by the security forces if you have a wanted level. Each level should result in increasingly more powerful security ships and bounty hunters, in bigger numbers, tracking you down until it gets to a point where escape is virtually impossible and hiding in anarchy systems won't help.

The wanted level should not reset to zero upon death and should stay active based on how many people you've killed at a rate of 1 week per kill. Upon death the re-buy cost should be steeper for a wanted commander than an unwanted one.

Those that really do want to engage in proper PvP can pick up bounties for wanted commanders and aid the security services in tracking them down. These missions should be very lucrative and be worth a lot more than just killing wanted NPC's.

With that in place we'd have a system where those who do just want to shoot others can do so in lawless systems without penalty, but doing so in "civilised" space results in hefty consequences. Plus those that want to engage in PvP that actually means something can do so by picking up bounty missions to hunt down wanted commanders.

Problem solved!

 

[Lightspeed]

The issue of crime and punishment has been discussed so many times, and even Sandro has said "we are discussing it" and gave a list of considered options (if I remember correctly) ..... but it all died away after rapid response NPC police were introduced and upgraded, which only partly solved the problem.

Now it happens again at a crucial CG .... maybe FD will take a little more notice of what was requested/demanded/debated/considered before .... and implement something appropriate and long-lasting ! Please.

Mods - if I am sidetracking this discussion, please remove - thanks.

 

[Comrade Error]

My point was that a hot zone will always attract security forces, and when those forces are being attacked stronger forces will be sent. While i agree that not everything can be made realistic, some parts can be improved by making it more realistic (and in my opinion should be). What would be your objection to this (i am genuine curious)? It creates a dampening effect on extreme situations (extreme player killing will result in extreme security), and maybe even a challenge for the PVP-players. Currently a wing of dedicated players has nothing to fear of any security force, and i doubt they feel "hunted" at all.

Making the game open-only? Sure, just make it balanced in such a way that enough customers enjoy it or you'll end up with less funds to further develop the game. Continuous player killing, imho, doesn't do the game any good and will result in less players or at least polarization of the player base. I would expect that a event which is made possible by a lot of research, time and effort, could not be influenced by PvP in such a way that it comes to a grinding halt.

offtopic; rather then stating some else his perception "is stupid", you can also just give your own arguments on a civilized way. We are all adults here, and i love to be convinced of your opinion by arguments.

Who is sending the security then?

Yea sure but then it's still gameplay > realism you just believe that the realistic choice is the better one for gameplay in this case.

I say it's stupid because I really doubt anyone would enjoy this game if it was really realistic.

I don't think we should remove solo and I do think crime and punishment, as in the crimes themselfs as well e the punishments to be revisited. I'm just not entirely sure what should be done apart from every profession in this game needs to be hit with some risk vs reward but I don't agree with most of these recent changes, like missile Vipers jumping in while you pirate destroying limpets and cargo (apparently they now send a conda and 4 eagles in high sec systems) while still piracy (at least PvP piracy paying like crap and generally being unrewarding with all the cheap logging and whatnot. I know it can feel very rewarding that you took someones power plant out but then you come to the cargo and while still somewhat satisfying you know it's nothing compared to what the trader makes in an hour. I also know it can feel very satisfying to avoid and escape a pirate or a blockader but sadly not enough people even give that a chance. I know even being pirated can be fun for both parties. Early on on the Xbox version people didn't log often and I made plenty of friends pirating and whatnot, now it's mostly filed with people of the cancerous mentality of "gotta min/max gotta get that A grade shields". So I definitely think PvP piracy, bounty hunting and all out war is a must for a game to claim to have a living and breathing universe. But if people want "special" consequences to killing a player but not an NPC then I think that we should have "special" rewards to "winning" (pirating getting a bounty or a voucher etc) over a player or else killing an NPC should have the exact same consequences as killing a player.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

The issue of crime and punishment has been discussed so many times, and even Sandro has said "we are discussing it" and gave a list of considered options (if I remember correctly) ..... but it all died away after rapid response NPC police were introduced and upgraded, which only partly solved the problem.

Now it happens again at a crucial CG .... maybe FD will take a little more notice of what was requested/demanded/debated/considered before .... and implement something appropriate and long-lasting ! Please.

Mods - if I am sidetracking this discussion, please remove - thanks.

Also with that request it seems like Frontier only really listened to one side of the debate. It really sounds like they don't care and want to fix it with minimal effort required.

 

[Comrade Error]

I think anyone who kills unwanted players for fun in anything other than an anarchy system should be slapped with a wanted level that increases in severity for every kill that's committed, like the wanted level in GTA. Level 1 should be a mild response of system security who will actively seek you out in multiple systems, but you can avoid it by hiding in lawless systems. Also attempting to dock at stations in anything other than an anarchy system should result in being fired upon by the security forces if you have a wanted level. Each level should result in increasingly more powerful security ships and bounty hunters, in bigger numbers, tracking you down until it gets to a point where escape is virtually impossible and hiding in anarchy systems won't help.

The wanted level should not reset to zero upon death and should stay active based on how many people you've killed at a rate of 1 week per kill. Upon death the re-buy cost should be steeper for a wanted commander than an unwanted one.

Those that really do want to engage in proper PvP can pick up bounties for wanted commanders and aid the security services in tracking them down. These missions should be very lucrative and be worth a lot more than just killing wanted NPC's.

With that in place we'd have a system where those who do just want to shoot others can do so in lawless systems without penalty, but doing so in "civilised" space results in hefty consequences. Plus those that want to engage in PvP that actually means something can do so by picking up bounty missions to hunt down wanted commanders.

Problem solved!

Yep! Problem solved. Like no-one would ever have a say against that.

Now tell me why should that only apply to player deaths? And what reward do I get for all that risk? And should I let traders <READACTED> if they please while I shout "Im sorry mister trader I didn't mean it please don't call the authorities".

 

[Toumal]

I don't think we should remove solo and I do think crime and punishment, as in the crimes themselfs as well e the punishments to be revisited. I'm just not entirely sure what should be done apart from every profession in this game needs to be hit with some risk vs reward but I don't agree with most of these recent changes, like missile Vipers jumping in while you pirate destroying limpets and cargo (apparently they now send a conda and 4 eagles in high sec systems) while still piracy (at least PvP piracy paying like crap and generally being unrewarding with all the cheap logging and whatnot.

I gotta say, I'm completely on your side with this: I would love to see piracy rewarded much more than it is. Think about it: Your reward for going through all the effort to text a commander and get him to drop some cargo is, what? 8 tons of painite if you're super lucky? But it won't be that, you'll mostly be getting Gold or some other commodity that sells for a couple thousand.

No. Make it so that the more cargo I can coerce or force from a player, the more money I get. Call it a mob connection that pays me for hurting the guy who these cargo containers were meant for, or whatever. Make hatchbreaker limpets a worthwhile investment by having them act as a multiplier for an already-lucrative profession.

Oh and we need more expensive commodities. That would also help induce piracy.

We need proper piracy to be rewarded, and we need people running amok for the lulz to be punished so they don't drive everyone off into private groups or solo. These guys kill piracy and the game as a whole.

EDIT: And as a suggestion for the anti-griefer wanted level: Your mob connection will reduce or even completely reset your wanted level if you sell them your stolen cargo. Problem solved. Pirates can pirate, but idiots who do just kill for the lulz retain their wanted level.

(Yes they could still work with someone else to reset it, but that would be cumbersome and can be also solved by making it so you don't get that wanted level reset if you pirate the same commander twice)