What ED is Missing

Kylby36

Banned
Lore in each system.

How that system came to be. What happened there, what should I see in that system? Monuments from battles? Specific landmarks that aren't available in other systems? I think some handcrafting in the human bubble needs to start happening. Now at the capitals and a few systems surrounding Sol you can see the system description, but that's it. Give us a bit more :)

Not to bring Star Citizen into this, but already you can see that they have stories/lore to each of their systems. The little things like that give you so much to do/see.

I understand that not all systems could be handcrafted because I'm sure there's 500+ that are colonized. But I think the ones with over 1 billion people should have some hand crafted sights to see. I could spend HOURS researching and looking at that kind of stuff.
 
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lol.

Who cares about lore. If you're that fussed you can make your own notes.

I'd rather the Heat Cancer meta fixed, landing on planets that aren't barren wastelands and the stupid 550m/s ram clipper builds that bounce off everything.
 
I think that's the gap that Powerplay was supposed to fill, as there is lore for each of the powers. Unfortunately, though, Powerplay was never integrated with factions which is where I think the lore should have spread to. You would then have a lore for the system, being the lore of the majority faction. I'm sure there's someone else who know's more about this than I, though.
 
I think there are actually over 1 million stations in civilized space, so giving each one unique lore would be quite the task. IIRC, star citizen's galaxy is to be much smaller, which will be much easier to hand craft, though I'm still not sure that game will ever be released.

It would be nice to see more variation in ED though, and I think 2.2 will begin to scratch the surface of that with more station interiors to be added. I do not think that the developers are interested in trying to write galaxy wide history in excruciating detail, no matter how awesome that could be. Closest thing you'll be likely to see are the rare goods which all have some very interesting descriptions.
 

Kylby36

Banned
I think there are actually over 1 million stations in civilized space, so giving each one unique lore would be quite the task. IIRC, star citizen's galaxy is to be much smaller, which will be much easier to hand craft, though I'm still not sure that game will ever be released.

It would be nice to see more variation in ED though, and I think 2.2 will begin to scratch the surface of that with more station interiors to be added. I do not think that the developers are interested in trying to write galaxy wide history in excruciating detail, no matter how awesome that could be. Closest thing you'll be likely to see are the rare goods which all have some very interesting descriptions.
You haven't seen Star Citizen's 3.0 demo if you don't think the game will ever be finished xD

Their galaxy will be smaller, but it takes 40 mins to travel across each system.


But yeah,
 
I'd actually like to see more official lore as to what has been happening before ED launched, where the lore currently stands and where it is going. For the past ED lore I suppose we have Elite Reclamation, the book by Drew wager. But I don't know how deep it goes as I have not had a chance to read it.
As for where the lore currently stands, we have CGs, The Cannon research and the Rifters. But unless you are really into this it is not very obvious.
As for where the lore is going, we will supposedly have a new book by Drew sometime next year which ties all the disparate stories together.
Now you mentioned lore for each system. Which in my opinion would be a really wonderful thing and add more spice to the universe. The thing is such a system wide lore would have to tie in with the lore of the factions in the system and the states of these factions are in constant upheaval. So this really becomes an involved exercise.
They can probably add in how the system was colonized and add in some system specific POIs, which would tie in nicely with the passenger missions. But the amount of work that needs to be done would probably not justify the gains. IMO.

Anyway. We can always hope that your vision comes to pass.
 
Each system should be like a Mario Bros level and you can't reach the next system until you pass it. By the time you reach system #100 you should be level 30 at least and can take on the really strong bosses. But you have to redo each system/level to go back and get them to complete the story.
 
Likely it is .. man-hours that stops such mass content (I think it's 20,000 bubble systems or something silly) but you could write some lore histories, and submit to Frontier? Player named stations are in, planets and NPC's. Probably a hundred player owned factions, a power (coming soon) and player generated Galnet stories too, are in. Why not System Histories?

Several elite lore books for inspiration but as long as you can get the quality of your history high enough (example, aligned close enough to the general lore) I reckon you stand a chance of getting them included if you ask nicely. Worst case, there's the Community Creation and Fiction section in the forum here, to serialise what you find out?

Would suggest concentrating history down to about 100 words but can suggest someone you could ask, about how best to approach Frontier with it if you like (send me a PM).

All for it myself (even though can also understand, and agree with, Frontier concentrating on other dev things right now). +1
 
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The lore is there, only it is mostly presented outside the game, wich isnt a very convinient solution. I agree with the OP, that the lore needs to find its way into the game itself, even if it is only a compendium of some sort.

What Elite really lacks in my opinion, is a consistant game design. Besides having an impressive and absolutely awesome tech base, the more gameplay functions get added, the more i feel like being in an arcade hall, with lots of different arcade machines standing around with no clear connection to each other. The Engineers update managed to combine some of them, but it is still quite a pile of unrelated feeling things.
I really hope this gets some attention one day. In the meanwhile, i enjoy the awesome technology, Frontier delivered. At best in VR as often as possible :) I am really looking forward to find new planetary and stellar features.
 
I understand that not all systems could be handcrafted because I'm sure there's 500+ that are colonized.

Closer to thirty thousand, I believe. I'm sure someone will know the exact number.

A few systems are hand crafted, but even narrowing down to billion+ pops would be thousands of systems.

Quite an ask.
 
I think there might be some mileage in recording the history of a system and its ownership and announcing it as you enter the system.

You are entering the <system>, within <MajorFaction> space, the major minor faction is <MinorFaction>. The system is currently <System Status>. Optionally when there is history The <system> was previously in the control of <MajorFaction> but changed allegiance during the war of <year>.
 
I'm surprised that you see ED lacking, lore wise. Yes, it's not being told by ingame means currently. But many systems have flavor text.

Loads of lore is being told outside of the game. If you read the official books, the place names and descriptions used match the in game places. Which I like very much. Example: the Prism system used in Reclamation.
Another example for in game lore is the Sirius Corporation storyline. Did you track where this mega corporation has expanded to? It's has been told through GalNet, but you can find all these expansions and subsidiaries in game. And I suspect there's a mystery we have not solved yet.
It has been hinted by FDev and Drew Wager that we have missed so many secrets which are in the game already.

Then in 2.2, we will get tourist beacons that will give you some text when scanning. Additionally, we will get the Tionisla Graveyard. Finally :).

You see, I can't follow your complaint at all.

FYI: eddb.io currently lists 19,000 systems that have stations.
 
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...but it is still quite a pile of unrelated feeling things...

I think this is kind of on purpose.

I can think of two reasons for this. One is that in real life, being a driver, pilot or a captain of sorts can lead you to many kinds of work, which will feel disconnected and different. A long range hauler and someone who carries ore between the mine and the conveyor belt of the crusher are both truck drivers. We know these are connected in some way because we live in the real world and the variety in real life distracts us so we have to think in abstract ways to make connections. Elite is much simpler than real life obviously so the differences become jarring. That's normal.

And the second reason is, they designed the activities and gameplay styles distinctly because when they try to introduce passenger missions, people start crapping all over it, saying it's the same thing as hauling cargo but with a different menu in the stations. Well, whatever we do in this game we do from the seat of a spaceship so all the game is flying spaceships with a different skin right?

Of course I'm exaggerating and hauling passengers kinda should be a different type of cargo, just like in real life. The interaction should be subtly different, as there can be important details such as keeping tabs on the well being of individual passengers but that's not realistic to ask for at this point. Whatever they come up with, without making the game all about passengers will feel artificial and simple. There's simply no time for a very detailed passenger system yet with all the other stuff they planned ahead of time.

What they should do in time, with each new update is to connect more inputs and outputs to the BGS and make it make more sense. It already kinda makes sense but in a pretty static manner. If they can manage to make it more dynamic, such as implementing an actual simulation of supply and demand for individual systems so they produce and consume at different rates, even without player intervention, it will be awesome. I don't know how much of a database wizardry this requires so I'm not exactly sure how deep they can go but I wouldn't think it would be too much work, given that there are already very detailed simulations of complex economies with millions of inputs that you can run on your own computer.

Another thing which would improve interactivity is to implement new ways for people to meet, do things together and benefit from the interaction as a group. CGs are a simple but good example of this. If the pay is good, lots of people attend the CGs, some go in open to interact with each other, while others go in private but still the result from the community effort is visible. It's also worth your while most of the time. This interaction could be expanded upon by automated CG which are local and small scale, such as an effort of a few hours to haul some stuff to a certain system, or maybe from the system. As an example, a system could reveal they have a surplus of some goods they want to get rid of and they are selling it half the market price. This could be sent as in game mail to players within a certain radius of the mission giver system automatically. The same can be done for any kind of activity. Bounty hunting comes to mind. A randomly generated criminal is declared via in game mail to players within a certain radius of the system the criminal is seen and everyone who can find and scan the criminal gets some reward while the player(s) who manages to kill the NPC gets the bounty on its head, which should be substantial.
 
Lore in each system.

How that system came to be. What happened there, what should I see in that system? Monuments from battles? Specific landmarks that aren't available in other systems? I think some handcrafting in the human bubble needs to start happening. Now at the capitals and a few systems surrounding Sol you can see the system description, but that's it. Give us a bit more :)

Not to bring Star Citizen into this, but already you can see that they have stories/lore to each of their systems. The little things like that give you so much to do/see.

I understand that not all systems could be handcrafted because I'm sure there's 500+ that are colonized. But I think the ones with over 1 billion people should have some hand crafted sights to see. I could spend HOURS researching and looking at that kind of stuff.


That's what the tourism system is giving us in 2.2.
 
I'd love to be able to read about the lore of the game in-game. Unless you already can and I'm an idiot. It would be great to pull up some document tabs [from your ship computer] on the history of the human race whilst exploring in deep space, etc etc.
 
I'd love to be able to read about the lore of the game in-game. Unless you already can and I'm an idiot. It would be great to pull up some document tabs [from your ship computer] on the history of the human race whilst exploring in deep space, etc etc.

Had you considered buying some of the voice pack mods? Some of them (Obsidian Ant and William Schatner, for example) feature a 'tour' feature.
 

nats

Banned
Lore in each system.

How that system came to be. What happened there, what should I see in that system? Monuments from battles? Specific landmarks that aren't available in other systems? I think some handcrafting in the human bubble needs to start happening. Now at the capitals and a few systems surrounding Sol you can see the system description, but that's it. Give us a bit more :)

Not to bring Star Citizen into this, but already you can see that they have stories/lore to each of their systems. The little things like that give you so much to do/see.

I understand that not all systems could be handcrafted because I'm sure there's 500+ that are colonized. But I think the ones with over 1 billion people should have some hand crafted sights to see. I could spend HOURS researching and looking at that kind of stuff.

I am sure this stuff will come big time with the atmospheric planetary landings expansion, but it may start with the passenger tourism that comes in the next patch. But atm you can read recent info in the station news items that does spread a bit of colour to the universe especially around the Pleiades systems. But yeah I would like to see much better stuff appearing when we start going down to the planets themselves. And if we can get tourist info on systems that would also be great to see. Needs integrating with the various books though, as well as the older games.
 
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I think this is kind of on purpose.

I can think of two reasons for this. One is that in real life, being a driver, pilot or a captain of sorts can lead you to many kinds of work, which will feel disconnected and different. A long range hauler and someone who carries ore between the mine and the conveyor belt of the crusher are both truck drivers. We know these are connected in some way because we live in the real world and the variety in real life distracts us so we have to think in abstract ways to make connections. Elite is much simpler than real life obviously so the differences become jarring. That's normal.

And the second reason is, they designed the activities and gameplay styles distinctly because when they try to introduce passenger missions, people start crapping all over it, saying it's the same thing as hauling cargo but with a different menu in the stations. Well, whatever we do in this game we do from the seat of a spaceship so all the game is flying spaceships with a different skin right?

Of course I'm exaggerating and hauling passengers kinda should be a different type of cargo, just like in real life. The interaction should be subtly different, as there can be important details such as keeping tabs on the well being of individual passengers but that's not realistic to ask for at this point. Whatever they come up with, without making the game all about passengers will feel artificial and simple. There's simply no time for a very detailed passenger system yet with all the other stuff they planned ahead of time.

What they should do in time, with each new update is to connect more inputs and outputs to the BGS and make it make more sense. It already kinda makes sense but in a pretty static manner. If they can manage to make it more dynamic, such as implementing an actual simulation of supply and demand for individual systems so they produce and consume at different rates, even without player intervention, it will be awesome. I don't know how much of a database wizardry this requires so I'm not exactly sure how deep they can go but I wouldn't think it would be too much work, given that there are already very detailed simulations of complex economies with millions of inputs that you can run on your own computer.

Another thing which would improve interactivity is to implement new ways for people to meet, do things together and benefit from the interaction as a group. CGs are a simple but good example of this. If the pay is good, lots of people attend the CGs, some go in open to interact with each other, while others go in private but still the result from the community effort is visible. It's also worth your while most of the time. This interaction could be expanded upon by automated CG which are local and small scale, such as an effort of a few hours to haul some stuff to a certain system, or maybe from the system. As an example, a system could reveal they have a surplus of some goods they want to get rid of and they are selling it half the market price. This could be sent as in game mail to players within a certain radius of the mission giver system automatically. The same can be done for any kind of activity. Bounty hunting comes to mind. A randomly generated criminal is declared via in game mail to players within a certain radius of the system the criminal is seen and everyone who can find and scan the criminal gets some reward while the player(s) who manages to kill the NPC gets the bounty on its head, which should be substantial.
+1
Apparently I've given you too much rep recently. :)

Anyway, back to the OP. As others have mentioned, the bubble is much much bigger than many people realize. Tens of thousands of systems, and who knows how many factions. Way too much to build lore for.
I'd rather see them spend more time on a few over-arching galactic story lines, and tie it into the gameplay. Which they are doing somewhat with jacques and such, but it feels a bit clunky and disjointed at the moment.
 
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