All, I see a lot a threads about, my ship was destroyed in seconds...

[SkipRat]

i don't think that has changed a lot; what has changed:
- survivability of non pvp+engineer builds. e.g. before 2.1. you could always ressort to a "cheap but fast"-ship (cobra mkiii), or outfit heavy enough to survive a random pvp encounter (a python with a smallish safety scb). i'm not sure whether i would still take my multipurpose python for a trading cg unmodified.

- obviously this only applies to non-consensual pvp, which is optional in ED

- pve, a-grade less costly unengineered ships perform better then cheap unengineered builds of a more expensive ship. "upgrade a combat ship while flying it" is less of valid strategy now (an a grade hrp cobra will outperform a d-grade fdl, engineered or not)



yes. but again: non-consensual pvp is optional. if you like to do it, you need horizons and engineer your ship.

i have a second account without horizons - pve is challenging, but fine for me.

That is completely misleading. There is no option if your ship is not ungraded, you just die horribly. Even with fully upgraded ships, the balance is wrong. If you get interdicted now, in some case you have no options but to combat log to survive as FD, have made it that you can't run, you cant jump because the OP weaponry shred you too fast and most certainly don't have a chance to fight back. In some cases you can;t even use manoeuvrability to by you some time, because the like of a Fed Corvette turn like fighters, even an un-modded conda can turn like crazy... If you are trader, never get a trading ship, they are completely pointless, oh and don't bother with a conda trader, because you will only be able to carry 16 tons, because the rest of it is there to protect the 16 tons of tea you are carrying....

Sorry, I have no idea what planet you are on, but it is not most certainly not planet truth. That is what FD may have intended, but that is not what the players have got.

To many God builds around with no weaknesses...

 

[aRJay]

here is the config that he gave me for his conda. (he stated that he did not want to grind for the engineer mods
https://coriolis.io/outfit/anaconda...2f2i.Iw18ZlA=.Aw18WBMAswMwjiIA?bn=Conda_Cargo.

So like I said, it's all about choices.

I have recently started playing with the configuration of my new Anaconda during which I tested it for mine laying, when flying straight and level those medium hard point mines will hit his own ship 9 times out of 10. The only points that work for mines are the two small and the two large on the upper hull.

 

[drew]

Point defence rules against missiles as long as you put them in the right place. My little hardcore Courier has two of them and it dances around anyone with missiles.

And the explosions are pretty.

Cheers,

Drew.

 

[Marak]

First time back in the game after a break I was in my fully A rated Anaconda with 7A shields (plus 4 A0 shield boosters, 2 class 5 hull reinforcements & military grade hull) and was interdicted by an Elite FAS. Not in the mood for a fight I thought I'd just low wake away and lose a ring or two of shields.

Not going to do that again! Once I repaired my hull, which was at 14% by the time I docked I decided not to ignore pirates anymore.

That's when I decided to get friendly with the Engineers

 

[D.G.Cerberus]

That is completely misleading. There is no option if your ship is not ungraded, you just die horribly. Even with fully upgraded ships, the balance is wrong. If you get interdicted now, in some case you have no options but to combat log to survive as FD, have made it that you can't run, you cant jump because the OP weaponry shred you too fast and most certainly don't have a chance to fight back. In some cases you can;t even use manoeuvrability to by you some time, because the like of a Fed Corvette turn like fighters, even an un-modded conda can turn like crazy... If you are trader, never get a trading ship, they are completely pointless, oh and don't bother with a conda trader, because you will only be able to carry 16 tons, because the rest of it is there to protect the 16 tons of tea you are carrying....

Sorry, I have no idea what planet you are on, but it is not most certainly not planet truth. That is what FD may have intended, but that is not what the players have got.

To many God builds around with no weaknesses...

I assume you are only referring to PVP here?

 

[aRJay]

Does outfitting extend to where you put the shield boosters and point defences? Is there a benefit to putting the pd near the rear etc?

Point defence need good fields of view going back to the example of the Anaconda on the upper hull there are two slots right aft that are prime slots and I would also use the two furthest forward on the lower hull, apart from possibly chaff none of the other utilities are location sensitive.

 

[PanTast]

SkipRat: do you get payed for your negative propaganda? I am really struggling to understand you.

You mean a non Horizon player has no chance if he is going to trade? As long as your opponents are human players, you might be right in some cases.

But just take an Orca with A rated thrusters. 435 m/s boost speed is more than enough to run from any interdictor. Point defense and chaff as defense. Stuff in three medium mine launchers and you can kill most of the (npc) interdictors while running. That way you can deliver 156 tons of cargo very safely. I did it for quite a while.

You may argure that this might not work in open, but honestly: do you meet human griefers in open all the time? Would a clever trader really play in open?

Sorry if I offend you with my post, but I read so many agressive offending post from you, that I think it is ok to express myself this way.

Fly safe commander!

o7

 

[salad]

My ship always get destroyed in 1-5 seconds if I take damage.

Maybe I should stop flying an Eagle Mk. II

 

[aRJay]

My T9 was a glass boat in vanilla mode. Then I fitted a Class 8A Shield Generator and 4 shield boosters.

All I can say now is, if I also do some Eng-Mods on it, I truly believe it could take a nuke and walk away from it.

I have seen wanted NPC T9s in RES and NAV point combat where the biggest hazard was the debris field after the explosion, I have also seen them in CZs coming on like the wrath of god a very split personality ship.

 

[Codger]

My experience is that you really need good shields now, on any ship. Engineered shields are much better and give you much more survivability, but aren't required as long as you stay alert and always high wake when attacked. But poor or no shields equals disaster.

 

[aRJay]

Alternatively you can be flying a well equipped FDL with best shield module etc and still your shields and hull can go down in seconds with a powerfully engineered similar class ship. I guess people without Horizons are really scr*wed !

Edit. I've just remembered Engineers is 1.6 too. So how do people without Horizons get these upgrades if they cannot land on planets ?

They have to sneak in through your emergency airlock and steal the critical circuit boards, then macguyver them into their own modules.






They don't.

 

[Andovar]

Just to reinforce the OP's point, here's a recent thread from a guy complaining about getting constantly shredded in his viper, and he was running with class C & D modules.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/285452-Really-damn-close-to-giving-up

You either learn the hard way, or here on the forums. (or i suppose there's always the third option of rant and rage quit )
Though it's not like "character builds" is a new concept in gaming. I realize elite can be a bit convoluted and complicated at times, but figuring out that "better shield = safer ship" shouldn't be all that surprising to people.

 

[UnhappyDev]

Alternatively you can be flying a well equipped FDL with best shield module etc and still your shields and hull can go down in seconds with a powerfully engineered similar class ship. I guess people without Horizons are really scr*wed !

Non Horizons players can use synthesized ammo. Railgun ammo +30% damage hurts a lot. That evens up the balance a little bit but yeah, serious PVP players need Engineers

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

So like I said, it's all about choices.

I totally agree with you! ... but... just to play devils advocate...

on weds i decided to play the game a different way, i was in a wing of 3, my mates had a python and a clipper, both well armed so I broke all my normal "lone wolf" rules because this time i had backup and made a pure trade T9, with them as my escorts, which i thought was what playing in the MP was all about.

however with so many disconnects - from all of us (and it was not our internet) more times than not i ended up on my own, unprotected and potentially easy pickins..

Had you of looked at my build no doubt you would blame me.... it was by my own admission awful but it was the only way to make my trade route in 1 jump, i even had to keep my fuel below 20% (which left me with an empty tank after a disconnect stole my fuel without making the jump) luckily i made it 2nd time on fumes.

So... would you say i was at fault here? Sure my ship was specced super specialised but i had 2 wingmates as escorts and they were to cover me.

 

[Andovar]

I totally agree with you! ... but... just to play devils advocate...

on weds i decided to play the game a different way, i was in a wing of 3, my mates had a python and a clipper, both well armed so I broke all my normal "lone wolf" rules because this time i had backup and made a pure trade T9, with them as my escorts, which i thought was what playing in the MP was all about.

however with so many disconnects - from all of us (and it was not our internet) more times than not i ended up on my own, unprotected and potentially easy pickins..

Had you of looked at my build no doubt you would blame me.... it was by my own admission awful but it was the only way to make my trade route in 1 jump, i even had to keep my fuel below 20% (which left me with an empty tank after a disconnect stole my fuel without making the jump) luckily i made it 2nd time on fumes.

So... would you say i was at fault here? Sure my ship was specced super specialised but i had 2 wingmates as escorts and they were to cover me.

Absolutely not.
For starters, you didn't come here and post about how the game balance or AI is jacked up because you got killed so quick.
I would go so far as to say that your wing mates are part of "your build". The disconnects and grouping issues is crummy netcode, which is a whole different ball of wax.

 

[ROSS-128]

I totally agree with you! ... but... just to play devils advocate...

on weds i decided to play the game a different way, i was in a wing of 3, my mates had a python and a clipper, both well armed so I broke all my normal "lone wolf" rules because this time i had backup and made a pure trade T9, with them as my escorts, which i thought was what playing in the MP was all about.

however with so many disconnects - from all of us (and it was not our internet) more times than not i ended up on my own, unprotected and potentially easy pickins..

Had you of looked at my build no doubt you would blame me.... it was by my own admission awful but it was the only way to make my trade route in 1 jump, i even had to keep my fuel below 20% (which left me with an empty tank after a disconnect stole my fuel without making the jump) luckily i made it 2nd time on fumes.

So... would you say i was at fault here? Sure my ship was specced super specialised but i had 2 wingmates as escorts and they were to cover me.

Although disconnects and instancing wouldn't be your fault, getting gibbed before your wingmates can wake in would be if you had gotten attacked in that situation. You do still have to survive long enough for them to draw aggro.

If you're running that close to the wire to make a route one-jump, just do it in two so you have more room for outfitting. One extra jump is pretty trivial compared to the time you spend cruising to the station and docking anyway.

 

[GJ51]

https://coriolis.io/outfit/anaconda...2f2i.Iw18ZlA=.Aw18WBMAswMwjiIA?bn=Conda_Cargo

Bi-weaves don't make any sense on this build, nor do chaff and a heat sink.

On a dedicated trader you want max shield tank that can allow a high range high wake jump that most fighters can't follow.

You also don't want or need any weapons if you are trading as it doesn't make any sense to stand and fight, it only slows you down, your not likely to win anyway, and it slows down your earnings rate.

Submit, boost boost, high wake out to max jump available quickly by opening the Navigation panel on the left and pressing the up button to move the selector to the furthest available system at the bottom of the list. You should do the selection between the first and second boost so that as soon as the FSD has cooled down you can align and jump out. If you think your threat has a wake scanner and enough range to follow, do another high wake right away and then drop out of SC at the second system and boost a few times.

https://coriolis.io/outfit/anaconda....AwRj4yuqg===.Aw18WBMAswMwjiIA?bn=Conda_Cargo

Even against a heavily modded ship, you might sustain some damage, but you should survive. Perfecting the defensive submit and run sequence is the most essential skill to have in ED even if yo're in a Combat ship. No matter what you drive or how well it's outfitted, sooner or later you will have to run if you want to avoid a re-buy screen.

Not knowing how to do this properly will guarantee that you'll see it more often.

 

[CMDR-AD]

My T9 was a glass boat in vanilla mode. Then I fitted a Class 8A Shield Generator and 4 shield boosters.

All I can say now is, if I also do some Eng-Mods on it, I truly believe it could take a nuke and walk away from it.

I run the Class 7A on my Type-9, with 3x 0A boosters. Good for about 535MJ, IIRC. Carries 404 tons.

Last night as I was seconds from dropping into a station, a pirate messaged in SC. After dropping, I boosted toward the station, hoping to drag the pirate along and maybe into the stations fire.

Well the pirate dropped in front of me, not behind! A Diamondback of some kind, he bounced off my shields like a bug, without leaving a trace.

Pretty stout so far. I remember having a chuckle at the power the 8A must offer.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Although disconnects and instancing wouldn't be your fault, getting gibbed before your wingmates can wake in would be if you had gotten attacked in that situation. You do still have to survive long enough for them to draw aggro.

If you're running that close to the wire to make a route one-jump, just do it in two so you have more room for outfitting. One extra jump is pretty trivial compared to the time you spend cruising to the station and docking anyway.

I do agree and i would not be moaning about the AI if i got caught out, however i had to barter with my mates to get them to escort me, and rigging my ship for 1 jump was the only way i could do it..... it was an off the cuff thing,

IF it had gone wrong due to my mates being tardy then it would have been on me.... but chances are if it had gone wrong due to poor networking or had i been marooned without fuel due to the game nicking it off me .then i would probably have been on here moaning just as loud as the otehrs (as it was i still moaned a bit.. the current server issues are actually putting my mates off playing in a wing, which kind of sucks to be honest.

i have since specced properly, by flying to a hi tech system once they logged off.... its better in every respect now, i can make the same jump now with 80% fuel, and have 3 packs of mines and a stronger shield to boot..,... but that is by the by.

 

[GODofDUTY83]

Got to check that ship integrity in the repair menu, cmdrs.