Countering SDC, the fun way..

[Alex Brentnall]

Why?

They can always switch to solo.

Because you are singling out one player in particular. The same reason if they repeatedly target you or a streamer or anyone repeatedly. Rules apply to everyone:

In addition taking action such as seeking out and targeting specific players purely for the purpose of being disruptive, to cause offence, or to upset players within the community can also be considered harassment.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...update-Reiteration-of-player-harassment-rules

 

[Wasp0]

Oh YESsssssssssssssssssssssss!!! Just had a great role from your very efficient Drive Engineer Prof Palin and went for his G5 Dirt Drive option on my Clipper. Can now get 3 short of 600!

Was gonna do a Sothis run or two this evening in the cutter, but now gonna have a try at a bit of SDC Baiting, if we are not gonna hurt their feelings too much

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Because you are singling out one player in particular. The same reason if they repeatedly target you or a streamer or anyone repeatedly. Rules apply to everyone:



https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...update-Reiteration-of-player-harassment-rules

I am not gonna go for any ONE SDC Cmdr in particular, anyone will do, and i promise not to upset them Dowggies too much. Never know i may get killed, but it be fun!

 

[stripealipe]

People need to be careful if doing this.

If people are targetting SDC members specifically, then i'd say it could be considered harassment.

However, if they are instead targetting those who are wanted.... and those who are wanted just happen to be members of SDC or any other player or group who are killing traders, then it would presumably be acceptable.

This is... amusing to say the least.

 

[Ian Skippy]

SDC aren't griefing, there is no griefing in this game bud

Just as a sidenote, I really dont get why people get so hung-up on an arbitrary definition of griefing from the 1990s. Most people nowadays mean 'people who do stuff just to cause unhappiness' when they say 'griefing'. And that kind of behavior sure happens a lot, and people who do that are sad little clowns. The eternal 'but in Ultima Online it meant something else in 1997' is completely pointless.

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People need to be careful if doing this.

If people are targetting SDC members specifically, then i'd say it could be considered harassment.

However, if they are instead targetting those who are wanted.... and those who are wanted just happen to be members of SDC or any other player or group who are killing traders, then it would presumably be acceptable.

No, I am just roleplaying someone who hates SDC because his father was murdered by them. Its a bizarre idea to call it harassment, whats next? Only being able to target members from another power 'by accident'? If you organise into a group, you can be singled-out for it. Its purely in-game and totally valid.

 

[Martian Successor]

Oh YESsssssssssssssssssssssss!!! Just had a great role from your very efficient Drive Engineer Prof Palin and went for his G5 Dirt Drive option on my Clipper. Can now get 3 short of 600!

Was gonna do a Sothis run or two this evening in the cutter, but now gonna have a try at a bit of SDC Baiting, if we are not gonna hurt their feelings too much

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I am not gonna go for any ONE SDC Cmdr in particular, anyone will do, and i promise not to upset them Dowggies too much. Never know i may get killed, but it be fun!

Be very careful with Dirty Drives in a PvP situation. The heat cancer meta loves dirty drives as they can raise your heat levels very fast with just a couple of hits.

 

[Wasp0]

Be very careful with Dirty Drives in a PvP situation. The heat cancer meta loves dirty drives as they can raise your heat levels very fast with just a couple of hits.

Advice readily accepted my friend. I am hoping at 600 they will only get 2 or 3 shots on me if i am not that fast at reacting, and the 7c Bi-weave will(Should handle those, hopefully). Anyway only one way to find out!

 

[Ozram]

People need to be careful if doing this.

If people are targetting SDC members specifically, then i'd say it could be considered harassment.

However, if they are instead targetting those who are wanted.... and those who are wanted just happen to be members of SDC or any other player or group who are killing traders, then it would presumably be acceptable.

You know they do the suicidewinder thing and clear their wanteds yeah? Not that I have an issue with PKs. I don't, but they do clear their wanteds awful fast. This is FDs fault for leaving the mechanics as they are for so long. A simple change like remaining wanted for the six days in a system no matter what (after a murder) and even having to pay to clear it after that (regardless of if someone collected/killed them) would help somewhat, especially if that wanted tag excluded one from collecting another bounty. Simple, simple, simple.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You know they do the suicidewinder thing and clear their wanteds yeah? Not that I have an issue with PKs. I don't, but they do clear their wanteds awful fast. This is FDs fault for leaving the mechanics as they are for so long. A simple change like remaining wanted for the six days in a system no matter what (after a murder) and even having to pay to clear it after that (regardless of if someone collected/killed them) would help somewhat, especially if that wanted tag excluded one from collecting another bounty. Simple, simple, simple.

At gamescom they said that bounties will be tied to the cmdr rather than a ship. No more suicidewinder.

 

[Robbie84]

Also one of worst things is... "WANTED\HOSTILE" and they can repair\restock,etc without issues. Stations should blow them away immediately when Wanted\Hostile for murder, especially multiples when bounty is higher.

 

[Ozram]

At gamescom they said that bounties will be tied to the cmdr rather than a ship. No more suicidewinder.

Sooner the better

 

[VR Morgan Grimes]

At gamescom they said that bounties will be tied to the cmdr rather than a ship. No more suicidewinder.

How's that going to help? If the bounty dies with the commander it wont change a thing will it or am I missing something obvious?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Us Harassing them???? AA are you serious, you know, REALLY SERIOUS??????

This is... amusing to say the least.

Just as a sidenote, I really dont get why people get so hung-up on an arbitrary definition of griefing from the 1990s. Most people nowadays mean 'people who do stuff just to cause unhappiness' when they say 'griefing'. And that kind of behavior sure happens a lot, and people who do that are sad little clowns. The eternal 'but in Ultima Online it meant something else in 1997' is completely pointless.

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No, I am just roleplaying someone who hates SDC because his father was murdered by them. Its a bizarre idea to call it harassment, whats next? Only being able to target members from another power 'by accident'? If you organise into a group, you can be singled-out for it. Its purely in-game and totally valid.

Read the rules. Intent is important. Advocating harassment of a player or group is against the rules.

If SDC do it, then the old adage comes to mind, which my mum drilled into me as a kid: Two wrongs don't make a right.

However, in general, from what i know of SDC (with obvious exclusions like the Mobius incursion) do not target specific individuals or groups. They seem willing to attack anyone any time.

If they do target an individual or group repeatedly, then they should be reported under the harassment rule.

Basically, this thread is also pretty much a witch hunt, something not allowed by forum rules either.

As I noted, there are ways to do what is being suggested, without making it an attack on any specific players or groups. If you make your interdicitons soley based on those who are attacking other players, you are covered. And no, roleplay reasons don't wash either in these circumstances. Remember all those times groups like the Code and SDC came up with some bull RP reason for their attacks and were shouted down by the community?

 

[Ozram]

How's that going to help? If the bounty dies with the commander it wont change a thing will it or am I missing something obvious?

I think what he's saying is that the destruction of the ship will not be enough to scrap the wanted tag from the commander. When your ship is destroyed you don't die. You magically escape and have the option of rebuking your old load out through insurance or go to a rental sidewinder. Usually, this clears a bounty. With the bounty tied to the commander, and not his/her ship, the suicidewinder tactic for wiping your rap sheet won't work.

 

[Cliffson]

At gamescom they said that bounties will be tied to the cmdr rather than a ship. No more suicidewinder.

I thought that was only in reference to the Ship launched fighter?

I hope what they meant was that the suicider would be a thing of the past and you have to pay off bounties via this shady contact guy .

 

[Toumal]

Because you are singling out one player in particular. The same reason if they repeatedly target you or a streamer or anyone repeatedly. Rules apply to everyone:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...update-Reiteration-of-player-harassment-rules

And there we have it ladies and gentlemen.

Either players who single out non-combat vessels and starter ships, as well as returning explorer vessels are breaking the rules...

In addition taking action such as seeking out and targeting specific players purely for the purpose of being disruptive, to cause offence, or to upset players within the community can also be considered harassment.

...or we can simply form an ingame collective that has declared an open bounty hunt on another player group, which is fine because it's allowed by the game's systems and if the other commanders suddenly decide that they don't want to engage in PvP after all, they can do what they themselves have been saying all along: They can play solo or in a private group!

Unless of course they want to imply that looking for victims instead of opponents is somehow legitimate just because they take any victim, as long as it can't fight back. Because that would be rather telling, wouldn't it?

Either way, I hope this spurs on Frontier's work towards a more sensible crime and bounty system.

 

[VR Morgan Grimes]

I think what he's saying is that the destruction of the ship will not be enough to scrap the wanted tag from the commander. When your ship is destroyed you don't die. You magically escape and have the option of rebuking your old load out through insurance or go to a rental sidewinder. Usually, this clears a bounty. With the bounty tied to the commander, and not his/her ship, the suicidewinder tactic for wiping your rap sheet won't work.

Erm... that still doesn't work. If the bounty is tied to the CMDR and they always magically escape (because that is how the game works, no CMDR ever actually dies) then the bounty will never be cleared or claimed.

 

[bitstorm]

Maybe it was tied to ship and not CMDR, that way if you swap ship and suicide nothing is cleared.

Per ship bounties sounds a bit silly though so probably not.

 

[Ozram]

Erm... that still doesn't work. If the bounty is tied to the CMDR and they always magically escape (because that is how the game works, no CMDR ever actually dies) then the bounty will never be cleared or claimed.

I think that's just a part of the mechanic, closing a known exploit. As someone else mentioned, there will be the shady dealers you can wipe your bounties through and we also have a timer after which a bounty goes dormant and then one more timer after that (legacy fine?). Yes, though, on its own that will not be enough. Certainly appears to be a move in the right direction. Not sure as to why we have to wait for something that is on the face of it so simple (but I don't code).
You do have a point though. Perhaps the status can be changed to "outlaw" or something after a bounty has been claimed so they are still tagged, but no longer have a collectable bounty.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Read the rules. Intent is important. Advocating harassment of a player or group is against the rules.

If SDC do it, then the old adage comes to mind, which my mum drilled into me as a kid: Two wrongs don't make a right.

However, in general, from what i know of SDC (with obvious exclusions like the Mobius incursion) do not target specific individuals or groups. They seem willing to attack anyone any time.

If they do target an individual or group repeatedly, then they should be reported under the harassment rule.

Basically, this thread is also pretty much a witch hunt, something not allowed by forum rules either.

I think we're talking about different things. Targeting groups because you want to 'grief' the human beings in that group, thats wrong. People shouldnt target SDC because they want the human being behind the Wizard to be unhappy. But targeting a group because of how that group acts in-game is totally valid, even according to Braben himself: if a group of people announce they are pirates, or murderers, or slavers, it is absolutely legit to have 'good' cmdrs hunt down' these 'evil cmdrs'. The Wizard for example has attempted to murder me every single time we met except one time, when I was in a corvette and he in an asp. I can totally try to target that specific individual for trying to murder me over and over again. I am sure SDC agrees with that.

 

[Toumal]

Erm... that still doesn't work. If the bounty is tied to the CMDR and they always magically escape (because that is how the game works, no CMDR ever actually dies) then the bounty will never be cleared or claimed.

I posted a suggestion for this some days ago in a separate thread. Basically, each death would just reduce the bounty by the amount of money they had to spend for insurance. So a player racking up millions of credits in bounty can't use the sidey reset anymore because it'll only reduce his bounty by a few thousand credits. He can of course choose to live in infamy if he can survive, and he'll be gone after everywhere except low-sec or anarchy systems.