Yes. May not be profitable for normal trading due to the fees, possibly for long range smuggling stacking (use taxi on way back to the remote system), definitely for CGs or PP where the raw profit of the runs may be secondary to support a cause or power.
Ship Transfer Trading Question
- Thread starter Jack Booted Thug
- Start date
Yes. May not be profitable for normal trading due to the fees, possibly for long range smuggling stacking (use taxi on way back to the remote system), definitely for CGs or PP where the raw profit of the runs may be secondary to support a cause or power.
yeah, sorry
let's put it in this way: instant transfer will change the world. in a good way (e.g. you find a good trade route with some DBX/ASP then transfer your trader there. or you'd transfer your trader to a good CG). but then you will need to do your business in your trader ship. so your main activity remains unaffected.
let me show this example.
from the GamesCom preview we know that transferring Beluga to 40ly costs 580kCr. I don't know how much this Beluga costs, I assume it's like 300-400MCr.
latest LFT 133 CG required gold. I rarely participate those, and somehow I decided to enter this one. all the nearest systems were dried out. on the 3rd day I had to travel 40ly away to get more than 3tons of gold
of course, I used eddb. it said "there you'll find >1000t of gold for 8800cr per ton", info is 3 hours old. ok, got there - 800t 9200Cr per ton. overall profit from this run was like 400kCr. transfer of my Cutter (considering my assumptions about Beluga are correct) would cost me 900kCr (my Cutter is >600MCr). no profit here... I could find more profitable systems, but they all would be even farther (increasing transfer cost), and also they all required long travel to the port (>20.000 ls from the star).that's what I meant.
I agree that trade routes will dry up faster. In fact, they will dry up twice as fast (instead of running a tour with one type of commodity and running a retour with another one, you will run two tours with the same type of commodity).
But I do not agree to your given example. CG's are a very special case considering commodity stocks. In the latest gold CG, you had over 10000 contributors all fighting for the same gold sources in the same area of space. Some routes do get attention, but never that much.
I haven't played in a while and I never measured exactly how long switching ships takes, but to me it doesn't seem any different than waiting for one FSD cooldown, or accessing the market to sell commodities. Of course, I admit I may be completely off on this one.
The thing is... remember Robigo mode switching? It was boring as hell, but the vast majority of players were still doing it. YouTube was full of guides on how to "get rich fast", with lots of views. It still is. Don't underestimate the desire of players to min-max. They will do it simply because it feel good doing it, because it feels good to be "optimal", because it feels like winning. If the taxi meta means 100cr more on the hour, they will do it.
you are right. I brought this example only to show that with ship transfer there will be not much of a change. if someone finds a way to do quick trade routes involving ship transfers, it would only mean that such routes will dry out faster, and in the same time this person will get less profit as he would spend credits on transfers. i.e. existing game mechanics will prevent any "money hacks" involving ship transfers.
that's right, too. but not all players do that min/maxing thing. I don't. because there are people who want to be "the biggest, the best, better than a rest", and there are those who just "blaze their own trail". I am from the latter. and I'm not alone. that's why I'm not afraid of this ongoing update
Because heaven forbid we ever make use of Fuel Tanks, right? (Fuel tanks and cargo racks are dime-a-dozen and available almost everywhere, honestly....)
You obviously haven't seen this thread before: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-unexpectedly-we-need-more-information/page14
What, by disrupting every bit of believability that world has carried up to this point?
It doesn't need to be instantaneous to still be useful for things like CGs or combat zones or whatever. It would take, at most, 5-15 minutes in all but extreme cases like to Jaques which would take half a day (which is nothing compared to how long that journey normally takes).
And honestly that would mean people could still use ship transfer to do trading - but it would take a believable, reasonable amount of preplanning and thought, as opposed to just happening on a whim and a snap of your fingers.
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Me, I love a little trading, I'm mainly into missing (delivery), and can sometimes get the bug to be in the middle of nowhere exploring.
Now two of the three work together, guess which one doesn't
Don't really care about ship transfers; but while out exploring I'd love to be able to find myself a nice earth like planet, land and hide my ship in a cave,mthe not drive out in my srv and set off a beacon saying I want a taxi lift back to the bubble to get back to missions and trade again for a while.
Then again, even with passengers transport, how much is somebody going to charge me to c e 20kLy to pick me up
Now two of the three work together, guess which one doesn't
Don't really care about ship transfers; but while out exploring I'd love to be able to find myself a nice earth like planet, land and hide my ship in a cave,mthe not drive out in my srv and set off a beacon saying I want a taxi lift back to the bubble to get back to missions and trade again for a while.
Then again, even with passengers transport, how much is somebody going to charge me to c e 20kLy to pick me up
you are right, I didn't. but I explained this point. simply - this won't change with the update, right? because it doesn't matter if you fly DBX or T9 - you will get interdicted anyways.
this point was already been discussed. and it's not a point at all:
- we can get our ships back after destruction in a moment - just pay an insurance
- we don't float in space after our ship is destroyed
- we don't wait in outfitting screen - we get new module instantly
- we don't wait while commodities are transferred to our ship - we buy and get them instantly
Should I go on?
Also, I didn't see such opposition after RNGneers were introduced, though it was really a thing "disrupting every bit of believability". what's wrong with instant ship transfer then?
"Believable"...
Ok, that's enough. This post is about trading issues. I already stated my POV, so I won't repeat it anyfurther.
Also, MB stated that transfers will be instant. And they won't be listening to us. So we will have to adopt to whatever drops in. There is nothing to discuss, really. At least until we see this update. It may turn out that transferring big ship is way too expensive and noone will use it unless he is in a greatest need.
Let's just wait and see, ok?
When you trot out the believability card / argument, you defeat your own position and sound silly.
I automatically concede and absolutely believe if instant transfer is not your cup of tea 'just because', that's totally fine. Not all features need to be loved/hated the same and bottom line is if you don't like it, that's your right.
When you play the reality card, however, you ignore instant passage of time already exists in game - because that is what we are talking about, the curtailing of actions that used to take real life time to some shorter amount of time (I say shorter because instant transfer like any UI and loading screen action will take some small amount of time).
I admit this is just me, but I have never assumed ED was a 1:1 exact correlation of in-game time = in real life time. Why do you assume ship transfer did not take days/weeks/months of in-game time that was essentially fast forwarded without you needing to wait that same 1:1 correlation in real life time?
In my mind, either some hired pilot is flying my transferred ship out, or a shipping/towing service hauls the ship out - and again conceding it doesn't have to be your cup of tea, I have no issues suspending my barrier of belief to assume the transfer took a week of in game galaxy time that in real life I got to fast forward through in less than a minute (or whatever the avg total combined time to access UI, load screens, click transfer, pay, etc for ship transfer).
It's been brought up by either camp many times but I'll use the eject pod example - you can be 20k light years away, eject or ship explodes, and you are 'magically' transported via ship insurance screen back to last docked station -> 20k light years away.
Like 'instant' ship transfer, you can view this eject scenario in one of three ways:
1. Cry foul over 'instant ship transfer' but have no issues or only mild reaction to this 'magic' carpet ride for ejecting and returning 1, 10, 100, or 1k+ light years 'instantly'
2. Be equally upset with ALL instant passages of time in real life that logically would not happen that fast in game if there was 1:1 correlation assumed between game time and real life time.
-to not be a hypocrite, this would mean you ought to equally condemn and have been just as upset all along before ship transfer was even mentioned re: instant ship repair, instant re-arming, eject and return, log out parked anywhere in space you want including heating up in front of star but hit the magic 'time-out' ability to log out, etc etc
3. Assume there does not always have to be literal 1:1 correlation between game time passage and real life time, and be just fine with any and all 'instant actions' because either some really are 'magic' instant tech, or some are simply fast forwarded quality of life actions that don't need to be sat through in exact 1:1 time passing.
Up till now, given the absence of fast and furious polls, posts, editorials, etc re: ship re-arming and repair, the poster child for feature most people seemed to not have large issue with was this simulated passage of time in-game as 'instant' to allow for real life time QoL for ship re-arming and repair (and cargo selling, etc).
The question to probe is why? Why weren't you and others in the camp of instant transfer = bad because of stated immersion / believability reason, not up in arms as "disrupting every bit of believability" these same 'instant' features?
My initial answer is because it seems you and others in your camp of this debate, had no real issue with repair/cargo/arming time being 'instant' because you either don't find those to be believability factors - in which case I'd gently say whether intended or not, that makes you a hypocrite - or you acknowledge they are similar factors but don't care/weight them nearly as much as ship transfer - which fair enough is your opinion to judge.
Bottom line is you can not care for this upcoming feature all you want, even perhaps be vocal enough to get it changed while other camp tries to keep it unchanged, but crying foul over disruption of believability assumes you literally want 1:1 correlation of all in game actions to be simulated with same real life passage of time in exact 1:1 measure.
Which clearly is not the case for many actions in game today.
Which ties back into saying that ship transfer being instant isn't important or necessary!
Well, I disagree about that, but I'll bite.
"Just pay insurance" - that's a pretty hefty cost after a certain point...right now my screen is showing me around 28 million credits for a rebuy?
Custom cars get insured too, and I would imagine that insurance cost would cover restoring the custom bits....
No, it's admittedly not realistic. But it is believable and it's an understandable gameplay choice when the alternative would be to either lose ships permanently (I could play EVE if I liked that idea) or be stuck for some period of time.
Actually, having to use another ship until your destroyed ship is rebuilt based on a timer wouldn't bother me much, but as it doesn't have anything to do with other portions of the game, whereas ship transfer relates heavily with the act of space travel, it doesn't offend my senses of believability.
That would be an extreme experience...and besides, wouldn't we be in an escape pod as opposed to just floating in our suits?
Correct, because neither is tied to the act of space travel. If the game was about full-on realism, then yeah, we'd be sitting in our ships twiddling our fingers while these acts occured (or, perhaps, participated in the act ourselves).
But I'm not after full-on immersive realism. I want mere believabiliy.
I think you should try, because none of the examples you gave tie into other core aspects of the game like ship transfer does with space travel. (I'm repeating myself on purpose to make sure the point isn't lost.)
lol!
Then I think you weren't looking.
There was lots of opposition, myself included, and it only cooled off after Frontier side-stepped the issue by making the barrier to entry lower with the materials adjustments. And there continues to be noise being raised, this very minute, in other areas of this forum about issues with RNGneers.
I certainly don't see the Engineers dice-rolling as believable.
No, that's not what he said, at all.
He did admit that this was their current plan, to go instant, for reasons they did not share with us. And he did come back later, in two different threads that I've seen, and explicitly let us know that he & Frontier are indeed listening and watching.
But if you're happier digging a hole of denial to stick your head into, go right ahead....
That would be the absolute worst outcome. Not only would an unbelievable magic teleport gimmick be added to the game, but it would be effectively paytowin for only the most time-invested billionare players to abuse. It would be a prohibitively high barrier to entry that would make it a useless feature for the majority of players, on *top* of breaking every rule about space travel set forth thus far.
So:
Hell No.
First off, these two things are not the one and the same. That's your first false assumption.
Secondly, I have not been arguing against instant ship transfer "just because". If that's what you honestly think, then you are not paying even the slightest amount of attention.
Because this isn't FE2 or the X-series or whatever where you could speed up or slow down passage of time.
This is Elite Dangerous, with a single shared persistent background universe where all players exist and affect the game at the exact same time.
You can't have that and dilute the passage of time. It doesn't work.
That's why Frontier added the "new" Frameshift drives that turn space travel into a matter of minutes, maybe hours in extreme cases, instead of the days, months, weeks it took in older games. (The intragalactic exploration trips we can go on currently would have taken untold years in the older games, I'm sure.)
Which would still have to take a believable amount of time, no?
Either of those explanations for ship transfer would actually be fine with me, because they are believable - though I think an autopilot function suffices - but it cannot be instant.
Again, this is something Frontier have said they want to change so that it's not so easily abusable. I will even agree with you that it's not believable for this to occur.
But the alternative of losing everything we have or starting to start over at Jaques with nothing more than a stock sidewinder is so extreme that I don't feel it's even comparable to merely having to wait maybe 5-15 minutes for your ship to travel through space to wherever you want to send it.
That's not even close to being the same level of trade-off for the sake of believability.