***POLL NOW CLOSED*** IMPORTANT, OFFICIAL SHIP TRANSFER POLL

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at first i was against instant ship transfers. gave it some thought and came to the conclusion that gameplay comes first. hence i'm ok with instant ship transfers. there's already enough stuff in the game that reduces the flow of the game. ship transfers should not be yet another one.
 
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I proposed this, but with 20 seconds instead of one minute. Why would the guy bringing me my ship spend a full minute in each jump when I only spend a few seconds there, just long enough for the FSD to spool and me to clear the star enough to not cook myself?


This is what I'm saying about just arbitrary decisions being bad game design. One minute is a pretty obvious "okay a good time frame" but it should not take that long.

This proposal, for those not reading from the beginning, was "(total distance / ship jump range) * 20 seconds. Lore justification is "a pilot did it, but not one who is a member of the pilot's federation because union pilots can't exchange money."


It's not as good as the "it goes instantly, lore justification is a bulk freighter jumped in and dropped it off via Warlock/hyperspace drive" option, but Team Immersion doesn't actually care about making the game good or fun if they can make it take a long time and be boring.

The fastest possible jumping speed for a player is not "a few seconds". It's around 50 seconds. 1 minute per jump is fine.
 
I don't know if this has been said before in the thread but to get a better idea from this poll PLEASE LINK THE POLL IN THE GAME, IN THE LAUNCHER, ON REDDIT, EMAIL PEOPLE AND ADVERTISE IT ON TV. PLEASE!!

It won't work otherwise.
 
Game design by vote has never produced and will never produce a good or enjoyable game because all of the research in game design indicates that players do not actually ever know what they actually want.

It'll be fine. The mechanic will have a delay and few will use it as it's not practical when people realise reality isn't always perfect. Recriminations will occur and then settle down.

Meanwhile everything frontier tries to do in future will become driven by committee and polls, which emulate the BREXIT outcome over and over again as people vote for one option and then have second thoughts after they've already done so.
 
From a 'lore' perspective, I would say the discussion is moot. IMHO, there's no sensible way to justify insta-anything, whether it's repairs, paintjobs, outfitting, escapepods or transportation. You have to conjure up increasingly contrived ways to deal with player conveniences and it all becomes contradictory.

I won't be waving any magic wands at ships in Elite Dangerous: Premonition, or trying to justify these game decisions in lore - I've already made that clear (scroll down to 'Issue 4')> http://www.drewwagar.com/progress-report/premonition-the-challenge-ahead/

So my advice is to forget the lore on this one! This is 100% gameplay and whether or not it, overall, has positive or negative (or indeed unintended) consequences. ;)

Cheers,

Drew.

And there you have it, Writer McWriteyFace who is doing official lorey stuff knows the difference between nice background info and gameplay. It's like the two can exist together but separately! AMAZING so now we've put to bed the "But Muh Lore" arguments is there really anything left?
 
I guess I don't see what the potential downside of instant transfer even is.

Ships with longer jumpranges are still going to be preferable to save on shipping fees.

Equipment/people transfer time is a 20th century nuisance that we actively try to get rid of. It would make sense that in The Distant Future, humanity would be working to eliminate it.

Don't let the fact that it doesnt exist now trick you into thinking that the game is better without.
 
Hello Commanders!

We’ve had a big response from you folk about 2.2 regarding ship transfer, so first things first, thanks for all of the feedback! It’s always extremely useful, and helps us make more informed decisions.

It can also sometimes kick start or reignite discussions, by effectively bringing new evidence into circulation, allowing us to re-examine issues with a broader perspective.

We’re very happy and excited to be bringing ship transfer into Elite: Dangerous, as we feel that it offers dramatic improvements to game play, by allowing Commanders more freedom to have the right tools (ships) at the right place.

However, there’s clearly a lot of folk that are not so happy about our choice of implementation: specifically the concept that your ships can be summoned to your current starport instantly. Whilst most folk seem to be on board with the idea of transporting ships to your location, the time transfer takes has raised some concerns.

Clearly, the benefit of instant transfer is that, assuming you have the credit funds, you always have the appropriate ship to hand at all times. I will summarise for reference the main concerns that have been raised about having instant ship transfer:

* Instant transfer is likely to have a less plausible/desirable explanation for how the feature works in game lore.
* Instant transfer will lessen the need to have decent frame shift drives in ships other than one, “main” explorer type vessel.
* Instant ship transfer will remove any potential game play from deciding when/if transfer should be initiated.
* Instant ship transfer undermines the scale of the galaxy.

These are interesting arguments that have got us talking about this feature in the office once more.

After much debate, we are coming around to the idea of having a delivery time for transferred ships. It also follows, that if we have delivery times for ship transfer, we should have them for module transfer as well, as both actions use the same concept. But before we go ahead with this, we want to take a final reading, as it were.

So we’re going to run a simple, official poll. I know that there’s already been one, which has had lots of responses; think of this as a final safety alert.

As with all polls, it would take a significant majority of a large voting base for us to take the results as anything more than interesting anecdotal evidence, so I’d like to stress that if you have a strong opinion on this issue, please vote, and tell your Elite playing buddies to vote as well.

We’ll run the poll until Monday next week. *Unless there is a significant, majority vote against ship transfer delivery times, along with a high turnout*, we will likely be moving towards implementing plausible delays into ship and module transfer, though such a change may affect when the features comes online.

I’ve tried to make the poll as straightforward as possible, with just two options, please take a moment to read through them before you vote. Basically, it comes down to instant travel versus delivery times. We’re not very interested in having minor delays just for the sake of appearances – if there’s to be a delay, it should try to be roughly appropriate to a bulk freighter’s ability: reasonably slow compared to an explorer type vessel, but able to reach any destination – eventually.

Note there will always be a credit cost component to ship transfer, though it will likely be lower if there is also a delivery time component.

Also note that the delivery times used in the poll (5m minutes and 100 minutes) do not preclude further travel outside the human bubble, say to Jaques, with an appropriate increase in time.

Thank you for your participation!

The poll itself can be reached at this URL: https://www.elitedangerous.com/en/shiptransfer-vote/

for your convenience, the options in the poll are are shown below:

POLL: Should transferring ships and modules to your location take time?

OPTION 1: No, the transfer should be instant.

OPTION 2: Yes there should be a delay of 5 minutes minimum, 100 minutes to cross the human bubble, edge to edge.

100 minutes makes this a non-feature for me.

Are you deliberately incentivizing people to NOT play the game? "Hm I feel like playing Elite but it'll be an hour before I can really do anything. I'll start the transfer. Maybe I'll play tomorrow."
 
I'm really torn on this one!

For those still yet to vote, keep in mind that this will likely be a pivotal moment in the type of game Elite turns out to be in the future. Instant transfer could have a lot of potential impact upon current gameplay, both intended and unintended. Once that setup is in place, all future changes in the game after that point will likely rely on the instant transfer of ships. And once we have that feature, what's to stop other features being made more convenient?

On the other hand, I have never liked time-sinks of any type...Elite already has far too many of them. How much does time-delayed transfers help with those time-sinks? It makes them "easier" because it is automated, but they are still there. However, what makes Elite special for many people is it's simulated galaxy. A time-delay gives convenience whilst maintaining much of the current design philosophy of the game.

So - just for a moment, consider this poll as something larger than whether or not you want instant-ship transfers or not, because the result in either event could quite possibly have a heavy influence upon the future development decisions of this game.

Exactly this.
 
Hi all,

So.. If your ship blows up and you have a ton of specialized modules on it... Whats the lore behind the last station you were at being able to make you an exact copy of your ship?

I feel like this is the exact same argument here. You aren't really transferring your ship.. They are just destroying it in place and making you an exact brand new 3d printed copy when you "transfer".

It seems that if there were to be a huge time penalty for transferring a ship across the universe then the mechanics behind insta-creation of new ship after death should change as well?

Being someone with limited time and who loves to play in Wings with his friends the instant transfer is a no brainer for Quality of life vs in game lore. Besides the fact that the lore to support in game instant transfer is already in game as the same lore that instantly creates you a new ship after death.

Thoughts?
 
Thank you for listening, and making the right decision. Delivery times sound about right. Lower costs sound right. Everything is good in the world today. :)
 
100 minutes makes this a non-feature for me.

Are you deliberately incentivizing people to NOT play the game? "Hm I feel like playing Elite but it'll be an hour before I can really do anything. I'll start the transfer. Maybe I'll play tomorrow."

This. Open is already barren. Why make it worse with people waiting around for ships to transfer.
 
So, the vocal "majority" gets to design the game, now. Seeing that most seemingly have way too much time on their hands, it looks promising. Too bad. I enjoyed Elite : Dangerous. Elite : Ponderous, though...

Yep, that was a bitter post. I don't do that often, so let me enjoy that one please. Voted "instant", obviously, but I don't have much doubts regarding the result of that poll.
 
I don't know if this has been said before in the thread but to get a better idea from this poll PLEASE LINK THE POLL IN THE GAME, IN THE LAUNCHER, ON REDDIT, EMAIL PEOPLE AND ADVERTISE IT ON TV. PLEASE!!

It won't work otherwise.




Yeah, as I mentioned, the only people who are going to participate are the people already following this issue on the forums, most people can't be       and don't care, because they trust game developers to make good gameplay decisions based on playtesting. Nobody expects to be blindsided by a poll about "how should we make our game?" based on immersion and lore or whatever. People expect game designers to design games to be fun based on playtesting, not based on polls of nerds.

So basically, the poll is going to go towards "make it take time" because Team Immersion needs to be fully immersed and normal players expect Frontier to make design decisions based on gameplay testing and so don't expect there to be a big to do about it.

Then the game will continue to bleed players until all are gone but the professionals using it as a reality-substitute and Frontier will continue to wonder why they lose players so rapidly, or why the Dangerous Games participants all lost about 75% of their players (except maybe EGP? Not sure) and so on.
 
at first i was against instant ship transfers. gave it some thought and came to the conclusion that gameplay comes first. hence i'm ok with instant ship transfers. there's already enough stuff in the game that reduces the flow of the game. ship transfers should not be yet another one.

How does it reduce the flow of the game compared to manual retrieval, which is what we have now?

That would be like if someone suggested doubling SC acceleration/deceleration to halve the time it takes to get to a station, and you replied, "We should just teleport directly from pad to pad. Spending half as much time in supercruise as we do now would add more time sinks and more chances to get pirated to the game, and we have enough of those."

How is cutting a time sink in half "adding more time sinks"?
 
When I think about it... The ship transfer can be instant. BUT it can only be initiated in the point of origin of the ship, not the destination.

This can easily be explained by you having to make a bio signature scan before moving the valuable ships around, forcing you to be present at the ships location where you initiate the transfer.
This way you can conveniently move ships through the galaxy and are a lot more mobile, but still feel the size of the galaxy as you have to travel yourself aswell.

This'll just upset some of the instant-gratification crowd because if they have ships scattered about they'd have to actually make an effort and go fetch them which would probably destroy the entire point of their easy-mode.

Disclaimer:
Only teasing "instant" crowd. ;)
 
I don't know if this has been said before in the thread but to get a better idea from this poll PLEASE LINK THE POLL IN THE GAME, IN THE LAUNCHER, ON REDDIT, EMAIL PEOPLE AND ADVERTISE IT ON TV. PLEASE!!

It won't work otherwise.
A one off email should work. The newsletter on Friday might just get ignored and it's also not enough of a heads up because the poll ends on Monday.

That being said I wouldn't mind seeing a TV spot of David Braben waxing lyrical about science and how "Y'all beaches need to cast yo Vote. Word!" *makes ED gang signs* :p
 
The way I see it, the same principle/technology that is used, lore wise, to give me back my ship after it has been destroyed is the same that would be used to bring my ship immediately from another station. The last station I ported doesn't have all the components for my ship, but they do have the specs, and because of that they can "print"(?) another one, exactly as the one I had before.
I'd argue there's no proof that it's your ship, stations are massive countries in space affairs, and they could easily have thousands of every ship in storage. Insurance just means they pull out a ship that's close enough to yours, do minor modifications and give it to you. Stations manage to have an effectively infinite amount of system defense Anacondas in their hangars as that cheater who blockaded Jameson Memorial for 12 hours showed.

Heck, this could be argued as how instant ship transfers work. They don't actually move your ship, they just pull out a ship of the same class from storage and install the modules you own in it, instantly since that's how refitting works right now. The ship in the original station is then put into storage for the next player who "transfers" their ship.
 
Forgot to add:

After you LINK THE POLL IN THE GAME, IN THE LAUNCHER, ON REDDIT, EMAIL PEOPLE AND ADVERTISE IT ON TV, DON'T EVER RELEASE THE POLL RESULTS PUBLICLY. I DON'T THINK YOU'LL DO IT BU IF YOU DO, YOU'LL REGRET IT IN THE FUTURE!
 
I've voted for instant. The main use for me is wanting to wing up with friends who I'm occasionally online with at the same time.

From feel point of view, instant tranfer doesn't bother me anymore than the other instant thing that are in for gameplay reasons (insurance, cargo loading, outfitting).

Really dislike the 3d printing explanation though. I'd much prefer it to be transport ships in the lore, with incongruous timescales as with the other features.

Fairly relaxed about the whole thing though.
 
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