***POLL NOW CLOSED*** IMPORTANT, OFFICIAL SHIP TRANSFER POLL

[TheSisko]

Voted for delay. Space is big. It should be treated as such.

#FrontierListening

 

[Skuli]

Hello Commanders!

We’ve had a big response from you folk about 2.2 regarding ship transfer, so first things first, thanks for all of the feedback! It’s always extremely useful, and helps us make more informed decisions.

It can also sometimes kick start or reignite discussions, by effectively bringing new evidence into circulation, allowing us to re-examine issues with a broader perspective.

We’re very happy and excited to be bringing ship transfer into Elite: Dangerous, as we feel that it offers dramatic improvements to game play, by allowing Commanders more freedom to have the right tools (ships) at the right place.

However, there’s clearly a lot of folk that are not so happy about our choice of implementation: specifically the concept that your ships can be summoned to your current starport instantly. Whilst most folk seem to be on board with the idea of transporting ships to your location, the time transfer takes has raised some concerns.

Clearly, the benefit of instant transfer is that, assuming you have the credit funds, you always have the appropriate ship to hand at all times. I will summarise for reference the main concerns that have been raised about having instant ship transfer:

* Instant transfer is likely to have a less plausible/desirable explanation for how the feature works in game lore.
* Instant transfer will lessen the need to have decent frame shift drives in ships other than one, “main” explorer type vessel.
* Instant ship transfer will remove any potential game play from deciding when/if transfer should be initiated.
* Instant ship transfer undermines the scale of the galaxy.

These are interesting arguments that have got us talking about this feature in the office once more.

After much debate, we are coming around to the idea of having a delivery time for transferred ships. It also follows, that if we have delivery times for ship transfer, we should have them for module transfer as well, as both actions use the same concept. But before we go ahead with this, we want to take a final reading, as it were.

So we’re going to run a simple, official poll. I know that there’s already been one, which has had lots of responses; think of this as a final safety alert.

As with all polls, it would take a significant majority of a large voting base for us to take the results as anything more than interesting anecdotal evidence, so I’d like to stress that if you have a strong opinion on this issue, please vote, and tell your Elite playing buddies to vote as well.

We’ll run the poll until Monday next week. *Unless there is a significant, majority vote against ship transfer delivery times, along with a high turnout*, we will likely be moving towards implementing plausible delays into ship and module transfer, though such a change may affect when the features comes online.

I’ve tried to make the poll as straightforward as possible, with just two options, please take a moment to read through them before you vote. Basically, it comes down to instant travel versus delivery times. We’re not very interested in having minor delays just for the sake of appearances – if there’s to be a delay, it should try to be roughly appropriate to a bulk freighter’s ability: reasonably slow compared to an explorer type vessel, but able to reach any destination – eventually.

Note there will always be a credit cost component to ship transfer, though it will likely be lower if there is also a delivery time component.

Also note that the delivery times used in the poll (5m minutes and 100 minutes) do not preclude further travel outside the human bubble, say to Jaques, with an appropriate increase in time.

Thank you for your participation!

The poll itself can be reached at this URL: https://www.elitedangerous.com/en/shiptransfer-vote/

for your convenience, the options in the poll are are shown below:

POLL: Should transferring ships and modules to your location take time?

OPTION 1: No, the transfer should be instant.

OPTION 2: Yes there should be a delay of 5 minutes minimum, 100 minutes to cross the human bubble, edge to edge.

Will we have the capability of specifying a target system for the ship delivery? If so, it would REALLY help mitigate the annoyance; I can have a combat ship transferred to a conflict zone and have it ready for me when I get there. If I have to travel to a system and THEN wait an hour for a summoned ship this feature is worse than useless.

 

[Arubeto]

Hello Sandro,

thanks SOOO much for taking the concerns voiced here in the forum seriously! [up][up][up]

I will summarise for reference the main concerns that have been raised about having instant ship transfer:

* Instant transfer is likely to have a less plausible/desirable explanation for how the feature works in game lore.
* Instant transfer will lessen the need to have decent frame shift drives in ships other than one, “main” explorer type vessel.
* Instant ship transfer will remove any potential game play from deciding when/if transfer should be initiated.
* Instant ship transfer undermines the scale of the galaxy.

This is a very accurate summary of those concerns. Absolutely agree with all of them.

As with all polls, it would take a significant majority of a large voting base for us to take the results as anything more than interesting anecdotal evidence, so I’d like to stress that if you have a strong opinion on this issue, please vote, and tell your Elite playing buddies to vote as well.

We’ll run the poll until Monday next week. *Unless there is a significant, majority vote against ship transfer delivery times, along with a high turnout*, we will likely be moving towards implementing plausible delays into ship and module transfer, though such a change may affect when the features comes online.

Does this mean that unless a vast majority of voters is in favour of instant transfer, the mechanic will be implemented the way you described? Even though I know there are people whose opinion strongly differs from mine, let me just voice my own opinion: thanks so much, for me this decision to not make ship transfers (and hopefully modules transfers as well in the future) instant is really great news!

I am especially happy that this mechanic - while still providing an enormousness improvement over the current situation with no ship transfer at all - leaves the feeling that distance matters in ED intact and does not sacrifice plausibility and consistency of in-world rules!

Note there will always be a credit cost component to ship transfer, though it will likely be lower if there is also a delivery time component.

This is a very good decision, IMHO! Credits weren't well suited to act as a real cost for ship transfer to begin with, since the amount of money some people already amassed would render any possible price tag useless!
Time, on the other hand, has the same, high value for every player and therefore is a very good cost for ship transfers!

Hello Commanders!

For clarity: the reason we are looking at ballpark figures of 5 mins to 100 minutes is two reasons:

* There's an amount of basic logistics in getting a ship booked and loaded onto a bulk freighter, hence a minimum 5 minute delay.
* We will use a X seconds per light year formula to simulate the speed of a bulk freighter.

The idea is that the delivery time can tick down regardless of whether you are playing the game or not.

Perfect! Exactly how it should work, IMO.

I only have one tiny additional suggestion (I am sure it has already been mentioned here as well, but I haven't had time to read the whole thread): it would be great to be able to initiate ship transfers between two arbitrary locations from everywhere, not just from the start or the destination of the transfer. It would allow for some strategic planning ahead. People could consider to send their combat ship to some remote station where they want to trade or smuggle, if they anticipate trouble or combat etc.

 

[Lobstris]

Firstly, thank you Frontier for actually listening to the community, but secondly, it's a shame the poll didn't have an option for a lot longer transfer times, or no transfer at all.

*Edit* If we have transfers, I do want to see Lynx Bulk Carriers going about the place though.

 

[Alex Traut]

If we run with that argument, we should also entirely eliminate supercruise and teleport the player too.

This was the point where I realized that this reply was a reduction to absurdity, not a real argument, and stopped paying attention.

If this inane response was what you sincerely took away from mine, you need to read it again. Or, alternatively, you could try simply refraining from misrepresenting arguments you don't agree with. Either works.

 

[torchredraider]

INSTANT! INSTANT! INSTANT!

My play time with a newborn and a job is already at a premium, maybe 30 minutes a day. If you are going to add ship transfer then add it.

Otherwise, rebuy should be adjusted to take just as long as ship transfer. For the roleplay\sim folks, give everyone a sidewinder for 100 minutes on destruction.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

I voted the second option just because i want to see this big ships in game, maybe using the same technology of the capital class ships, or just bigger FSDs, that would be socool..

Big FSD's will be obsolete with instant transfer. There will never be a need to have a good hyperdrive in a battleship. You would just go there in an explorer with a massive jump-range.. then SUMMON (like in a fantasy RPG) your large ship. Well done FDEV :/

 

[ROSS-128]

Can I ask what you'll do for the circa 6-7 weeks it'll take a ship to come to you at Jaques, if you ever go out there.

Or would you not bother? How many people, do you think, will be contacting Frontier to get their ships unstuck from transport when they realise that a ship might disappear for a few days. Or weeks. Or possibly a couple months?

Just asking.

Well if I was in that situation, I'd be spending the time flying to Jacques because I had the foresight to send my ships ahead of me. Because it's not like I'll be able to jaunt back to the bubble to get them, and when I do decide to head back I can send my ships ahead of me again while I fly back.

Pretty simple, if you do a bit of planning.

 

[Kershek]

There are plenty of places in the game where there is time compression. No one's waiting for their ship to be fitted with modules, to be repaired, or any number of other actions that have been made instant for the sake of gameplay. They have been time-compressed. No need to call it magic, you can just say some time has gone by (even though it hasn't), because, well, it's a game. So, I have voted for instant transfer.

 

[Cosmos]

Well thanks for listening chaps.. I voted

Option 2 it is.

 

[Drazkul]

Im fine with instant but with a charge:

Something like 1m credits for every 100 ly in the bubble followed by something like 20-30m for every 1000ly outside.

That way its not too expensive to get your ships transfered in habitable space as it would prob take 30 mins max in most ships to cross the bubble manually - and it would increase costs of magicking your ship to various ports to outfit it.

It would also make transporting combat ships to jaques pretty expensive

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

INSTANT! INSTANT! INSTANT!

My play time with a newborn and a job is already at a premium, maybe 30 minutes a day. If you are going to add ship transfer then add it.

Otherwise, rebuy should be adjusted to take just as long as ship transfer. For the roleplay\sim folks, give everyone a sidewinder for 100 minutes on destruction.

Yes, change this deep immersive experience to appeal to the most casual of all players. May as well make it a mobile game whilst we are at it

 

[DaggerSnake]

Thank you very much for this Sandro. It's really great to be part of the discussion as a community who loves being in this game world.

To me, one of the pillars and technical achievements of Elite Dangerous game design is the realistic sense of scale and size. How do you convey that? Time. The time it takes to move from A to B. Once time is removed, how big do things feel?

Time isn't a sink or a burden. It's a measure of size and should be respected and used in planning and descision making. There are plenty of activities to do while waiting for ship delivery. I'm all for realistic time delay to keep the integrity of galactic scale.

 

[Kayweg]

I honestly have no problem with accepting either outcome.
Just surprised they'd poll something of this magnitude, which potentially has a severe impact on various game play dynamics.
Leadership and decision making based on an overall design plan are something else.

 

[Leviateinn]

game already has enough absurdly long timesinks, doesnt need another one, people want ship transfers for convenience, not so they can sit there and twiddle their thumbs and be inconvenienced waiting

if you want to wait an hour and a half to get a ship, go fly there and get your ship yourself

 

[GG7]

Honestly, if people are sitting around waiting for their ships to transfer .. that just shows a complete lack of focus, planning or even imagination to do something else whilst the timer runs. That's not meant to be insulting, it's just how I see it.

For me personally, I'd go.. "right, I want to do the CG, it'll take about 30 minutes to get my ship, so in the meantime, I'll do some missions for this power."

If they actually put the transport process IN-GAME by modeling these transports and having them actually arrive in the system and station for the offload, that would go a long way to making the delay idea a universally accepted idea. We would actually see the process unfold in the game, rather than the ship just showing up in the menus of the station.

I know this would take more work, but it would sure be cool to see the process actually modeled into the game and make these huge transport ships a thing you often see in-game going about their business of delivering ships to various stations etc.

 

[Paramemetic]

Hi, Sandro



This list is not correct. The word 'instant' only applies to the first point. If you're gonna have ship transfer in this game, ppl are gonna use it.

Well they should, unless they make it take so long as to be useless.

* SHIP TRANSFER will lessen the need to have decent frame shift drives in ships other than one, “main” explorer type vessel.

So what?

* SHIP TRANSFER will remove any potential game play from deciding when/if transfer should be initiated.

So what? Also no it won't, there will still be a cost.

* SHIP TRANSFER undermines the scale of the galaxy.

So what? It's pretty big, like I think you can probably get a lot out of it even if you can travel around it slightly faster. Also no it doesn't, you can't explore with a ship transfer. Also, so what?

So what? None of your concerns have anything to do with whether the game is fun or not.

I fixed it for you, and as you can see these things can not be fixed by adding a waiting time. There is enough waiting around in the game and this brings nothing to the table (except lore-wise).
Instant transfer, please.

Look at this correct, good opinion having person.

 

[TomR]

Yes, change this deep immersive experience to appeal to the most casual of all players. May as well make it a mobile game whilst we are at it

Can we do that for real? I'd love an Elite companion app for my phone where I can do Elite game things while I'm away from my computer.

 

[Soban]

All-righty then
Voted, in favor of a duration in ship transfer.
Whatever it will be i'll be happy, and would still be happy even if it's instant.

I Trust FD to be very careful about the balance stuff, as this feature is both a great gameplay feature to be added in game, and also have the potential to be totally useless to some (most, a few, whatever) people if not implemented correctly.
While i would be happy with instant transfer, i prefer it to take some time (little to lot, that is not the point here).
I understand it's really just a comfort gameplay feature, and that the two main balance criteria on this kind of functionnality in game is either credit or transfer time.

I prefer the more realistic approach of a non-zero transfer time, with a bit less costy bill in the end.
The ideal balance would be different class of transport speed : the more time it take to go from A to B, the more cheap the bill would be.
Kinda like with public transports IRL when Bus is cheap versus high speed train or plane that is more expensive.

Having both a price and a time component to the equation let this feature to stay as realistic as a gameplay mechanic in a virtual world can be, as if you want to ship your car or your motorbike to some remote place in real life, you'll need money and you'll need to wait a bit before the vehicle gets delivered.
That's why my vote go to the non-zero transfer time, whatever will be the values.
This will then be a comfort feature, accessible to the most while keeping abuse potential as further away as possible (not instant transfer nor free shipping everywhere).

I repeat this : i trust FD for balancing the thing the right way, as it appears to be a hot topic in the community right now, and i'm sure FD will listen carefully to player response in the beta toward the feature and how it will be implemented.
And of course doing adjustments to both credit and time cursors as needed to get to the most of this feature.

Remember guys, we did well for nearly two years without this gameplay mechanic.
It's all about making most people life ingame a bit easier, without impacting too much other gameplay mechanics.

 

[Jack Schitt]

Hmm... I just realised the poll is tied to your FD account, of which I have two. So do I skew the results by voting twice, or do I do the honest thing and only vote once even in the knowledge that many other multiple account owners will be skewing things their way?

I might hold off on this until there's some clarification. Do FD have any way of filtering out multiple votes? Both of mine have the same payment information and e-mail domain, but that might not be true for everyone. Or are there a sufficient number of multiple account owners that everything will balance out if we all cast multiple votes? Any statisticians in here?