Sidewinder > Eagle?

[Cmdr Snuffler]

However, if you use lateral or vertical thrusters you can perform quite a few tricks. E.g. I can easily rotate my ship for 180 degrees while keeping the direction of flight in 5-6 seconds at the speed of 180, i.e. all my weapons will face Sidewinder in 5-6 seconds even it was right on my six.

Yes, yes you can...but...if the Cmdr in the Sidewinder does exactly the same thing, while 4 pips are in the engines, then the Cobra is toast

A cobra vs Sidewinder fight can last up to 4+ minutes if the Cobra pilot is skilled...the Sidewinder gets off a few laser shots every 10-20 seconds...after a while the Cobra slowly starts to crumble.

I love it, and cannot wait for the Krait Assault Craft.

In the hands of a skilled pilot the sidewinder out moves a cobra rather easily. The Eagle seems even more agile but I'm still wondering what the optimum weapon configuration for it is.

putting 3 beam lasers on an Eagle is a bad idea. I've won every fight against an Eagle easily with this config...in fact I've won every fight against and Eagle regardless of weapon loadout....so far.

 

[Aleksej]

Yes, yes you can...but...if the Cmdr in the Sidewinder does exactly the same thing, while 4 pips are in the engines, then the Cobra is toast

A cobra vs Sidewinder fight can last up to 4+ minutes if the Cobra pilot is skilled...the Sidewinder gets off a few laser shots every 10-20 seconds...after a while the Cobra slowly starts to crumble.

I love it, and cannot wait for the Krait Assault Craft.


putting 3 beam lasers on an Eagle is a bad idea. I've won every fight against an Eagle easily with this config...in fact I've won every fight against and Eagle regardless of weapon loadout....so far.

Sidewinder won't be able to stay at Cobra's six if Cobra performs this maneuever. I will make a video of the maneuver in order to demonstrate it.

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

Sidewinder won't be able to stay at Cobra's six if Cobra performs this maneuever. I will make a video of the maneuver in order to demonstrate it.

Ok cool, nice one. I am intrigued.
Remember that the Sidewinder is 4 pipped engines and can boost often.

Also, on a side note, if you're not using vertical and lateral thrusters in a dog fight then you're always going to be at a disadvantage against someone who does. I've used these since day 1.

We need grouping in ED, then we can easily demo things like this

 

[HoshiQaVam]

Not going to read through 3 pages, but I can say that the Eagle is definitely better than the Sidewinder.

Stick a machine gun in the top slot, and set it up as your secondary weapon. It then becomes incredibly easy to kill things twice as quickly as a Sidewinder, and means you can do sustained fire (continuing to fire the machine gun while the lasers charge).

 

[Captain N]

Sidewinder will be able to stay at Cobra's six in conventional flying (no lateral or vertical thrust applied). In this case - Cobra has little chances. However, if you use lateral or vertical thrusters you can perform quite a few tricks. E.g. I can easily rotate my ship for 180 degrees while keeping the direction of flight in 5-6 seconds at the speed of 180, i.e. all my weapons will face Sidewinder in 5-6 seconds even it was right on my six.

For the purposes of discussing PVP, I'd say using lateral and vertical thrust is conventional flying and should always be assumed... if you're not using them extensively you're simply not going to survive.

If the Sidewinder / Eagle pilot is any good he's using them as well, and the Cobra is not really agile enough to keep its weapons bearing on the target.

I can't say with any certainty which of these ships is ultimately the best for PVP (having not tested them enough against each other) but I'm not enamoured with the Cobra's sluggish nature, while the firepower made available by the extra hardpoint on the Eagle compared to the SW is nothing to scoff at.

This is the best example of a fight in an Eagle versus a Cobra fight I've managed to record: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XhhsCgiPiY#t=694

I'm not sure if things would have been different if the Cobra had been equipped with gimbals, but I think it demonstrates how little there is a Cobra can do against a smaller and more agile target at least when only fixed weapons are involved.

On the flipside, it also demonstrates the Cobra is a great ship for running away... I started sorely missing my multicannons the moment he turned tail and boosted into the distance.

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

Not going to read through 3 pages, but I can say that the Eagle is definitely better than the Sidewinder.

I found the Eagle too fragile...also...3 pages...I had this exact same issue ages ago. Go and change your forum preferences to show more posts per page, reducing the page count of a thread dramatically.

 

[Aleksej]

Ok cool, nice one. I am intrigued.
Remember that the Sidewinder is 4 pipped engines and can boost often.

Also, on a side note, if you're not using vertical and lateral thrusters in a dog fight then you're always going to be at a disadvantage against someone who does. I've used these since day 1.

We need grouping in ED, then we can easily demo things like this

Here is the video:
http://youtu.be/XXWTn-mgfj8

It seems to me that Sidewinder should be several times faster than Cobra in order to stay on Cobra's six. Take into account that it is just demonstration of fly away maneuver. If I want to face the enemy head - instead of reverse I engage boost.

Also Cobra can have 4 pips in engines as well. My preferred loadout for Cobra are 3 gimbaled multi-cannons so I have power distributed between systems and engines. When shields are down I divert all the power to engines.

For the purposes of discussing PVP, I'd say using lateral and vertical thrust is conventional flying and should always be assumed... if you're not using them extensively you're simply not going to survive.

I called it conventional as it was not that easy to explain the maneuver I have performed on the video. This maneuver is impossible without vertical thrust. And as I mentioned above Sidewinder easily outmaneuvers Cobra without lateral or vertical thrust.

 

[Tacheel]

I love it, and cannot wait for the Krait Assault Craft.

^This so much!

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

Here is the video:
http://youtu.be/XXWTn-mgfj8

Thanks for the quick video. Much appreciated.

Ok, so that's just an FAOff 180, with vertical thrust...not had any issues when dealing with Cobras that do this. (edit, actually that's a lie...sometimes I lose my shields and part of my hull when people fly backwards)
The Sidewinder in this case would not be on your 6...it would be on your 2, 3 or 4, which is just outside of even a lock from gimballed weapons.

I agree with you on the gimballed "civil war" multi-cannons...there are a lot of cobras out there with 4 beam lasers, lots of short burst firepower, which is great for large targets like Anacondas, but not for small fast dogfights.

This is actually one of the appeals for me. There isn't such thing as a "class" like in other games like WoW. "Class" is all dependant on what kit you put on your ship. I suspect everyone has not only their preferred ship and weapon, but also modules to define a specific role. It's like a more complex version of paper, scissors, stone.

 

[Aleksej]

Thanks for the quick video. Much appreciated.

Ok, so that's just an FAOff 180...not had any issues when dealing with Cobras that do this.
The Sidewinder in this case would not be on your 6...it would be on your 2, 3 or 4, which is just outside of even a lock from gimballed weapons.

I agree with you on the gimballed "civil war" multi-cannons...there are a lot of cobras out there with 4 beam lasers, lots of short burst firepower, which is great for large targets like Anacondas, but not for small fast dogfights.

This is actually one of the appeals for me. There isn't such thing as a "class" like in other games like WoW. "Class" is all dependant on what kit you put on your ship. I suspect everyone has not only their preferred ship and weapon, but also modules to define a specific role. It's like a more complex version of paper, scissors, stone.

Well, I am not using FA OFF at all in the game. I perform this maneuver in FA ON by applying vertical thrust at the right moments. And I use rudder pedals for this.

I think that it would be too hard for me to maintain both directional and speed control in FA OFF, while performing this maneuver. With FA ON I always have full control of my ship and it is not necessary to compensate thrust all the time.

 

[Captain N]

Oh yes. The famous Babylon 5 turn manoeuvre. Flying in a straight line while turning 180 degrees to greet the enemy behind you with a hail of fire. Nothing wrong with this in theory.

Snuffler is doing the same thing about 50 seconds into the dogfight I linked... slowly... turning and... bringing... his weapons... down to... where did his shields go?

 

[deusx_ophc]

Well, I am not using FA OFF at all in the game. I perform this maneuver in FA ON by applying vertical thrust at the right moments. And I use rudder pedals for this.

I think that it would be too hard for me to maintain both directional and speed control in FA OFF, while performing this maneuver. With FA ON I always have full control of my ship and it is not necessary to compensate thrust all the time.

psssst don't tell them

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

Well, I am not using FA OFF at all in the game. I perform this maneuver in FA ON by applying vertical thrust at the right moments. And I use rudder pedals for this.

I think that it would be too hard for me to maintain both directional and speed control in FA OFF, while performing this maneuver. With FA ON I always have full control of my ship and it is not necessary to compensate thrust all the time.

So it is Helps if I have my amp on...during the turn I couldn't see the speed indicator due to your head look, and didn't pay attention to it at the end of the video when I 1st watched it.
Vertical thrust definitely helps you turn much faster...the trick with this turn is getting all your vectors right so the turn is fluid looks seamless.
On a side note, this is actually something I was interested in back in 2.0.
While we can see the ships from the Cmdrs perspective while I was testing out funky moves I wanted to see a 3d graph, or a replay, of what I'd just done. Might have looked, and felt good, from my perspective, but what did it look like to others...did I just wobble and rotate on the spot?

 

[Aleksej]

So it is Helps if I have my amp on...during the turn I couldn't see the speed indicator due to your head look, and didn't pay attention to it at the end of the video when I 1st watched it.
Vertical thrust definitely helps you turn much faster...the trick with this turn is getting all your vectors right so the turn is fluid looks seamless.
On a side note, this is actually something I was interested in back in 2.0.
While we can see the ships from the Cmdrs perspective while I was testing out funky moves I wanted to see a 3d graph, or a replay, of what I'd just done. Might have looked, and felt good, from my perspective, but what did it look like to others...did I just wobble and rotate on the spot?

Well, I am used to look in the direction I want to face. Sorry about that. Sometimes it is hard to remember to look on the instrument panel when recording specific video and I look around as I would in combat instead.

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

Well, I am used to look in the direction I want to face. Sorry about that. Sometimes it is hard to remember to look on the instrument panel when recording specific video and I look around as I would in combat instead.

When my OR2 arrives next month I am sure I'll be in exactly the same boat! I sort of already feel my head and body doing it now with a static monitor and chair

 

[HoshiQaVam]

I found the Eagle too fragile

It's a glass cannon. Treat it as such and it's not an issue.

I've only died twice in mine so far, and am killing things twice as quickly as a sidewinder, so learn to fly it well and it's definitely an improvement.

 

[Viajero]

... However, if you use lateral or vertical thrusters you can perform quite a few tricks. E.g. I can easily rotate my ship for 180 degrees while keeping the direction of flight in 5-6 seconds at the speed of 180, i.e. all my weapons will face Sidewinder in 5-6 seconds even it was right on my six.

How do you take advantage of vertical/lateral thrusters for a faster 180? The only thing that would help you with that is sweet spot. Thrusters are translational and not rotational.

Either that or you simply mean a faster turnaround to face your pursuers, not necessarily in the same vector you started the maneuvre, and hence not strictly a 180.

 

[Aleksej]

How do you take advantage of vertical/lateral thrusters for a faster 180? The only thing that would help you with that is sweet spot. Thrusters are translational and not rotational.

Either that or you simply mean a faster turnaround to face your pursuers, not necessarily in the same vector you started the maneuvre, and hence not strictly a 180.

Demonstrated here:
http://youtu.be/XXWTn-mgfj8

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

How do you take advantage of vertical/lateral thrusters for a faster 180? The only thing that would help you with that is sweet spot. Thrusters are translational and not rotational.

Either that or you simply mean a faster turnaround to face your pursuers, not necessarily in the same vector you started the maneuvre, and hence not strictly a 180.

Alek's video was a 180 spin to fly backwards in one fluid motion. it's done with clever control of engine thrusters.
Engage vertical thrusters and pitch and slowly reduce your main engine thrusters. When your ship has been turned 90 degrees your vertical thrusters are now moving your ship "backwards" compare to your target. As you turn the last 90 degrees to complete the turn you need to start engaging reverse engines and coming off the vertical thrusters.


As for doing a direct 180 on the spot vertical thrusters do still help with this...using vertical thrusters means you don't have to rotate your ship through as many degrees to get back on target.

 

[Viajero]

Aleks , no FA OFF in that maneouvre?

180´s can be easily done in FA OFF obviously, but that cobra seem to turn at an unusually high rate indeed while quite far from sweet spot at that.