***POLL NOW CLOSED*** IMPORTANT, OFFICIAL SHIP TRANSFER POLL

[thesilentx]

Instead of ship transfer, is something like towing or carrying a potential work-around/compromise? For instance, I want to fly to Ceos with my combat vulture and/or mining python. I have them "Disassembled" where they will take up cargo space (and be unlaunchable) in my anaconda while flying them to the destination, then have them "Reassembled" at the destination station.

This provides a compromise in that transfer isn't instant, fortifying verisimilitude, while also allowing a ship with a horribly low jump speed access to areas that would normally be unreachable. This could also open up smaller ships with an over-sized FSD (or modified FSD) getting a "Towing Coupler" to haul a larger ship (e.g. A Federal Covette) to areas normally unreachable by a ship with such a small jump range.

This could also potentially be used by players to ferry other players around (e.g. "Hey, there is this an awesome mining belt over at System AwesomeMine, but my ship can't make the jump. I'll hire CMDR JohnSmith to get me there and give him some of my profits as payment.)

 

[NeilF]

Have a real chew on this one before making your final decision.

Has Sandy explained what the actual delay formula is?

eg: ETA Minutes = DistanceInLy/ShipJumpRange ?

eg: ETA Minutes = DistanceInLy/3 ?


I'd just like to know roughly what I'm voting for?

 

[charognard]

Well if that if isn't another really good reason to vote for delayed ship transfers then I don't know what is. It's like Obsidian Ant said (at least I think it was Obsidian) much earlier, this could be a decisive moment in determining which way FD decide to go with future developments. Simple instant gratification gameplay vs. deeper immersive content.

Someone with MegaDeth in his sign can only be in the right way ++rep

 

[Lucifer Hate]

My other worry about this vote is that it's the tip of the iceberg.
Now the mob have a taste for having a say in the direction the game goes, they'll demand they have a say in everything.
Not good; game design by democracy rarely works.

In a game like this that is supposed to have a 10 year plan it is all about having a say. This is not a 1 time game that they make the money and run. This is an ongoing project, and if you ignore the playerbase to much and don't give them some say then they start voting with their wallets. When you      off what looks to be large portions of players with decisions like this it is a recipe to disaster, That's why this poll on an issue that brought out so many opinions and strong feelings is essential to the future of this game.

 

[AzazelT]

Look into his posting history. He did have a post on this.

Literally right after i hit post, i remembered i could do just that. *face-palm*

 

[domaq]

Why I voted to Stay, I mean Instant

While usually sticking to recommendations in my posts, I'll weigh in on this one after, admittedly, not reading 600+ previous posts. These are simply reasons why I voted for Instant transfers. I understand the current discussions about what the delay may/may not look like from Sandro's recent comments and the potential to get "push" transfers at some predetermined time in the future.
.
Taking the credit cost out of it for a moment,. I've voted instant because the delay doesn't enhance game play.
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We already have instant services in many day-to-day actions for the sake of gameplay. Refuel, Refit, cargo transfer, ship purchase and swap within the station, reappearing in a station after "death". Messages "traveled" instantly from Beagle Point to the Bubble. Are these immersion breaking or do they enhance gameplay or both? Do people complain about them? What if you had to wait 10 minutes each time you wanted a refuel? Or how about 30 minutes for the fuel-boy to get off his lunch break?
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As has been stated, we're talking about a standard rate of about 3ly / minute. So to get the minimum delay, you're ship cannot be any further away than 15ly. There are only a couple ships in the entire game that cannot make that in 1 jump with an A-rated FSD. So why pull a ship to the new station? I could just as easily do what I do now and fit a small ship, fly it there, and retrieve the other ship. That does not add game play.
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Let's assume the other example: 100 minutes. What about those that can only play a couple hours a day at the most? They fly to the other end of the Bubble and then pull their ship. That's 100 of their 120 minutes game time lost. Of course they can do something else in-game with their time but that's not what they were trying to do. Thus limiting their game play.
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Now go to an extreme example; transfer to Jacques Station. Lets say you want to fly out there (22kly) in your exploration ship then you find out there is a booming market for mining. You pull your mining ship which (at their own estimated jump rate) is 4.6 days. Really? I do not have the ability to smartly plan my logistics and push the ship based on the instant transfer of information via the GalNet so will have to wait that time out.
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We are all well aware of the "grind" created by the Engineers update. If we define the "grind" as a time sink that is required to progress, putting a realistic delay on ship/module transfers is just that. Putting a shorter, non-realistic delay on the transfers would just be silly and would not appease either camp. More grinding does not add to game play.
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Is instant transfer immersion breaking? Yes for some. Does it promote gameplay? Not at all. We're not given the ability to "push" ships somewhere and we're not given the option to have others pilot a ship for us which would open an easy pathway for buy-to-win and gold selling. Would people get used to instant transfers just like they have for almost every other system in the game? Of course they would. Would instant transfers allow you to spend more time playing the game and doing what you want? Absolutely. That's why I voted Instant.

 

[Joe Akeem]

Something, ANYTHING to speed my gameplay up after i feel i have earned the right not to jump 27 times to get back to my friends.[/B]

And that is exactly what you get with a delayed transfer.

The issue with instant is not only the 'realism factor'. It cheapens and downright removes choices.

Any FSD above 2E will be disregarded.
Fuel scoops will not be needed and will free up power and internal compartment space making for an even 'awesomer' pew boat.
Sense of achievement will plummet and boredom will slowly creep up on everyone, not just the delay crowd.
The 'I got griefed/ganked'- threads will go thru the roof.
Powerplay will show 'interesting' effects and will lead to an ongoing tiring debate about the instant feature.

All of this can be avoided by simply adding a great mechanic benefitting everyone, a mechanic we have lived without for almost two years now without flipping our tables.

So what's it gonna be? An automated delivery saving you around 50% of precious playtime OR an automated instant delivery changing the game forever.

 

[Alec Turner]

Someone with MegaDeth in his sign can only be in the right way ++rep

Thanks for the rep, now click on the link and come and join in the fun!

 

[SentineI]

Hi Sandro, what are FDev's feelings about sending a ship from your current location to a remote destination, rather than bringing a ship from a remote location to you?

Being able to order delivery to any station would be the best way to handle it in my opinion. I've mentioned this already in this thread and so have several others

This sounds like a great idea, although it arguably minimises the effect of a travel delay, which could lead FDev to decide against having any travel delay at all. (Why go to all the coding complexity of adding a travel delay, if most players can simply negate that delay by requesting their ship delivery (in advance) to their own destination?) What do you think Sandro?

 

[cosurgi]

I still reasonably don't understand why they didn't just have it as instant, but you initiate the ship transfer from your point of departure, rather than calling it to you, with cost dependent on distance out to a maximum of 600ly (to avoid the Jaques handwringing).

This gives the impression of a time delay (as you still have to fly to the bloody station after clicking the 'send' button) whilst in mechanics term, the transfer was instantaneous.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oz8xP8jIZpfXe8FZm/giphy.gif

+1, pushing will solve it all.

 

[Duedy]

The problem is instant transport affects other people too (in OPEN). Very minimally, most players rarely see anyone anyway.

Instant will mean people will all too often be flying around in their taxi ship, arriving at a location and then insta-transporting the ship they really wanted to take there. Lock ships from transfer for a set time 1 hr to stop exploitation FIXED

It also means a trader can get their combat ship immediately and go out looking for the pirate who just took 10T of gold off them. Whats wrong with that?

It also just risks simplifying down the gameplay experience so you don't have to bother thinking, weighing up options. eg:- Timer after instatransfer fixes this too

..............

Well what if your last hr of gaming is also the last hr of the CG you want to start but you can't as this is the first and only time you have logged in a week, maybe your Fraction aligned and its important to you, i.e killing pirates stopping your Imps from building their new base.

It has to be instant as a player base not everyone will have the time to play and plan ahead to how they will play next time.

 

[LaserFace]

The "Realism" argument (to me) is completely invalid. Here is an off my head list of thing that break my realism. Some of which ive voiced to my friends in a joking manner.

How exactly does this mining laser work? How does my laser break chunks off this rock without just straight melting the pieces?

Rocks the size of skyscrapers only have a few tons of ore

Why exactly do i have to be at a certain proximity to this star to get more fuel than another?

This station always seems to have enough fuel for the 3000 ships that have visited this station today.

Where exactly does my ship get stored in this station that was visited by 200 other ships?

I can Auto-Dock but i cant Auto-Take off?

I can CLEARLY see this planet in front of me but its undiscovered to me.

I just landed perfectly on this pad and sustained 5% hull damage because I have no shields, huh, landing shocks must need replaced?

How am I talking in real time with another CMDR that is 100lys away from me? Pretty bad     tech right there!

I can go ON AND ON about the many nit picky things that can "break" the realism. I feel like i have definitely mastered this whole jump mechanic without getting any type of clear reward. Hell, my Cutter is sitting gathering dust in favor of my Conda purely so i can get from point A to point B in a timely matter. Something, ANYTHING to speed my gameplay up after i feel i have earned the right not to jump 27 times to get back to my friends.

It is hardly a problem unique to elite, too.

Even flagrantly unrealistic action games suffer this creeping issue, where "Realism!" is a throwaway argument. Literally, because realism as a basis of opinion is thrown away by the people usually screaming for it the instant it no longer suits their purposes of Faux Hardcore "If I suck it up with a game mechanic normal people dislike, that means I'm more pro MLG than them!"

"Why did they make it so the not zombies now try to block headshots in Killing Floor 2? What does it improve?"
"REALISM!"
"Okay? Well, then why does blocking their face with their arms give them a universal damage reduction across their entire body? That's not only , it also makes things LESS realistic!"
"LOL Go back to Call of duty if you don't like a challenge!"
"Wait, what happened to realism?"
" I don't understand the question."

 

[kofeyh]

Is that what you understand, "there should be a delay of 5 minutes minimum, 100 minutes to cross the human bubble, edge to edge," as meaning?

Current numbers are 100 minutes for 300 LY.

So how long would a transfer to Jaques be then?

If we consider 22,000 LY, based on the above figure? 121 hours. The only saving grace is that will be regardless of whether a commander is logged in. So that's a full 5 days of travel time, based on the transport ship operating 24 hours a day.

Why doesn't it simply state that (eg: Xly per minute)? And also mention it seemingly doesn't matter what ship you're transfering.

Because the ship is not travelling directly; it's on the back of a space truck.

The idea transfer is slower than manually flying the ship isn't ideal IMHO, but it's better than it being far quicker!

It will be slower than driving, based on the existing numbers, as far as actual elpased time is concerned. The only synergy is that the transporter ship continues around the clock.

 

[nigeljk]

Haven't read all 139 pages, but wanted to add my 2p.

With the option to sell your ship remotely with instant transfer of funds isn't this the instant transfer option? If you sell your ship on a station that has a replacement available (and you have sufficient credits left over to upgrade it). Engineered ships would require a mechanism to buy engineered items from the station (depending on rank?). For a lot of pilots this would make more sense. If a physical transfer option is being promoted then could this be added (at some future release) to the mission mechanism? A specially fitted out 'Conda should be able to transfer a number of smaller ships?

 

[domaq]

Instead of ship transfer, is something like towing or carrying a potential work-around/compromise? For instance, I want to fly to Ceos with my combat vulture and/or mining python. I have them "Disassembled" where they will take up cargo space (and be unlaunchable) in my anaconda while flying them to the destination, then have them "Reassembled" at the destination station.

This provides a compromise in that transfer isn't instant, fortifying verisimilitude, while also allowing a ship with a horribly low jump speed access to areas that would normally be unreachable. This could also open up smaller ships with an over-sized FSD (or modified FSD) getting a "Towing Coupler" to haul a larger ship (e.g. A Federal Covette) to areas normally unreachable by a ship with such a small jump range.

This could also potentially be used by players to ferry other players around (e.g. "Hey, there is this an awesome mining belt over at System AwesomeMine, but my ship can't make the jump. I'll hire CMDR JohnSmith to get me there and give him some of my profits as payment.)

I can barely follow someone that is towing me in a car at 1G let alone through witchspace!

 

[tarragon]

I love it how the voting progression is not visible to players. It is not that we don't trust you, but really..

This is game design team we are talking about. Guys who brought us RNGgeneers, Powerplay, borked missions, instant transfers.

Showing the voting as it progresses is much harder to falsify and face it, you do not deserve much trust, based on your blatant disregard for all gameplay elements of DDF and you failure to deliver Panther Clipper in timely fashion.

 

[WR3ND]

Has Sandy explained what the actual delay formula is?

eg: ETA Minutes = DistanceInLy/ShipJumpRange ?

eg: ETA Minutes = DistanceInLy/3 ?


I'd just like to know roughly what I'm voting for?

It's just a rough estimate of the times they're considering in the OP as far as I know.

 

[SentineI]

FD won't walk back from instant. If it instant, it WILL stay instant.

Why? And how are you able to speak for FDev?

 

[CMDR Zhon Daeli]

I love it how the voting progression is not visible to players. It is not the we don't trust you, but really.

Game design team.

We do not trust you.

It's to prevent undue influence.

 

[Seraff Udavkin]

To the Frontier Team.

Why instant transfer is a bad idea?
Guys, If you want to spare our time without changing the gameplay, make the following - Increase the supercruise exit range to the stations and signal sources as well as increase the exit speed, and supercruise slowdown rate.
Really, approach to stations consumes more than 90% of gameplay with no any reasonable game mechanics purpose.
Make the jumps between stars inside the system. To anyone who thinks that 2 hours of NOTHING during Huttom Ordital journey is the Spirit of The Game, guys why don't you travel in the realspace mode? Why do you use such an Exploit like the supercruise? You have probably LOTS of time in your life so the realspace travel is for you.
Elite dangerous have plenty ways to kill our time with no reason, there many things that could be done much faster. And I listed just two examples.

But instant transfer is a bad idea anyway.
Because it will significantly change the gameplay. You will don't need any other ship to travel between systems except super lightweight ASP, which can be easyly swapped to a combat ship with minimal possible FSD and fuel tank. Or a Trader fitted for 2-3 systems trade loop.
Multypurpose ships will die as a class. You will don't need to choose between resilence, cargo space and jump range during outfitting. All the ships will heve STANDRD ROLE and JUST ONE OUTFITTING PROFILE. Other ships will be forgotten as useless.
The developers were asked during Gamescome: "what will prevent me from abusing ship trasfer?" They say - Your Cargo Capacity! Really?! First of all, I have already upgraded all my 8 ships, I don't need those pesky Modular Terminals anymore. Anyway it's easy to spare 8 tons of cargo space even on Vulture. No. Nothing will stop me and thousands of players and hundreds of griefers from abusing this.
What is the Spirit of the Game? Surely not different ways of time wasting. If you create jumps inside one system, I would gladly remember those old times, when you need 2 hours of real time to reach the Hutton Orbital. I would have a nostalgia of those times, but I would be thankful anyway that those time are gone.
IMHO the Spirit of the Game is your ship. And it was stated it the recent issued Artbook. Instsnt transfer will kill that spirit.
Dear developers, please spare our time, but do it somehow else.

*sorry for my poor grammar