Enemy inside the gates, Frontier please rethink this

Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
I can't recall a single other MMO I've played where player territory could be removed at the whim of the development team like this. It kinda totally defeats the entire point of having any player influence or presence in the game's mechanic at all really.

Can you imagine an FAQ page on the Elite Dangerous game website saying something like this? :-

Q: "Elite sounds cool - can we have our own mini-factions ingame, so player groups can 'own' star systems?"
A: Yes, you can! But we should caution you we can and will take them away from you without any notice whatsoever and then gift what was your territory to another player faction. For reasons. And you have no comeback whatsoever.

...wouldn't exactly inspire confidence in the game would it? :rolleyes:

When I played Star Wars Galaxies, I was part of a guild that had build a town within sight of Jabba's palace on Tatooine. It was a large settlement of many houses, and even included a shuttle station that got a lot of traffic from other players. We worked hard to build that town...and I'm thinking now of what my feelings would've been if I'd logged into the game one day and been told that I had to pack up my house and move out because the devs were awarding that location to another player group because it suited them to do so.

At a guess, I'd say my memories of SWG as an awesome game would not now be quite as rosy as they are...

This eviction of SEPP is a poisonous move by FDev. :(

In simple terms, it's taking a group of the game's most enthusiastic and dedicated players and quite literally poisoning the game for them. I knew FDev's customer relations have acquired a near legendary status for short-sightedness, but this really takes that to a whole new level of ineptitude.
What is the point of even having player factions at all, be it tiny mini-factions or big league Powerplayers, if everything those groups have worked to achieve can be wiped out at the stroke of a pen?

And what's to stop FDev from evicting EGP from those same systems too at a later date if they suddenly decide to? :eek:

This decision makes a mockery of player 'involvement' in the BGS. It turns the whole thing into a sham, an empty facade handed down to us to make us think we actually have some relevance in the big picture, whereas in reality FDev simply couldn't care less that player factions are actually made up of 'players' - i.e. human beings with human feelings, desires, and hopes for the future of the game, and their part in that future.

FDev are (once again) treating people as if they were just data rather than human beings. [wacko]

Remember FDev : a game is nothing without players. Devs may make games, but it's the players who bring those games to life. There's nothing sadder, or creepier, than an empty playground...

If you take your players for granted and stomp all over their hopes and dreams with such sweeping arrogance and indifference, you are not only poisoning the game for them, you are also poisoning it for yourselves, because of the negative reputation such wanton acts inevitably create in the player community both inside and outside of Elite. [down]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sigh, this act on the part of FDev makes me terribly sad. Talk about sticking it to the losers, holy frack. Does Zac hate SEPP or something? Does he want SEPP gone from the game? Did their performance in the Dangerous Games offend someone at FDev or something?

I don’t even understand how anyone working at Frontier can think this was a good decision unless their end goal was to hurt SEPP. Was it? :(
 

Goose4291

Banned
Correct, but as I said, we figured the benefit to powerplay would outweigh the cost to explorers. Now we're just getting the bad outcome without the favorable mechanics.

But what exactly is that benefit? The only difference I (and anyone on the outside looking in) can see is that your groups PP faction would be in charge, not EGP's.

You've still got the exact same situation occuring that you were arguing earlier as the reason you don't want this region under PP influence, which is that PP pledged explorers would still be coming under attack from PP NPCs.

We have a defined space around Eleu and about 8 systems we are the leading faction as far as influence. We're well aware of the minor factions around us, and we would not be negating any of the work those factions have put into their systems. Our systems are also already neutral with regards to PowerPlay and we have good relations with the nearby powers where we would not be imposing negatively on those factions strategies.

Lastly, we would not focused on expanding and instead maintained a static boundary where we would maintain upkeep on core systems while avoiding consciously expanding into other powers territories.

All of this was stated up front in the Dangerous Games run-up...we would not be seeking expansion, but instead a way to make Powerplay more attractive to players through beneficial modules and gameplay systems.

Except that you wouldn't be able to control this. Your faction is going to naturally expand, and any 'casuals' who don't conform to your agenda who are in your faction for whatever reason (usually the module) will drive those expansions through. Even small co-ordinated groups like the Utopians can't guarantee such a strategem's success.

When I played Star Wars Galaxies, I was part of a guild that had build a town within sight of Jabba's palace on Tatooine. It was a large settlement of many houses, and even included a shuttle station that got a lot of traffic from other players. We worked hard to build that town...and I'm thinking now of what my feelings would've been if I'd logged into the game one day and been told that I had to pack up my house and move out because the devs were awarding that location to another player group because it suited them to do so.

At a guess, I'd say my memories of SWG as an awesome game would not now be quite as rosy as they are...

I'm an ex-SWG player and I do agree with you on this, but that's because with SWG the ingame mechanics were in place for such gameplay. Groups in Elite aren't done in such a manner, it's a lot of cherry-picking and dev god-modding in their favour as and when required (this even extends to GALNET news stories) due to lack of mechanics. Oddly, the groups who get the most interaction with the Devs don't have an issue with this, and accuse anyone who does push for ingame mechanics, citing the aforementioned issues, of being 'salty' 'butthurt' 'jealous' or other such nonsense.

Right up until something like this happens to them, then all of a sudden they don't like it.
 
Last edited:


On behalf of EG Pilots command we would like to declare the following:
We respect all player and communities of Elite Dangerous, and we respect time and effort they are dedicating to create an unique lore, minor factions development, arranging events, etc. We are confident, that our Power implementation will not be a negative game event, but vise versa it will bring diversity into the game and will add a motivation to pilots. Right now PowerPlay are almost independent from minor faction's BGS actions, and, in that case, our future Power placement should not be perceived by communities, which are situated on that territory, as a threat. Besides, we are always opened for a dialog and confident, that any difficulties could be solve by negotiations. There are numerous ways for other communities to cooperate with our Power and we will be glad to see their official representatives in our Discord embassy for negotiation. (links can be found on our web-site http://egu.io, our INARA wing http://inara.cz/wing/926, or our FD forum page https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/280857-EG-PILOTS?p=4355487#post4355487)

Fly safe, commanders!
 

Goose4291

Banned
EGUnion_Logo_White.png


On behalf of EG Pilots command we would like to declare the following:
We respect all player and communities of Elite Dangerous, and we respect time and effort they are dedicating to create an unique lore, minor factions development, arranging events, etc. We are confident, that our Power implementation will not be a negative game event, but vise versa it will bring diversity into the game and will add a motivation to pilots. Right now PowerPlay are almost independent from minor faction's BGS actions, and, in that case, our future Power placement should not be perceived by communities, which are situated on that territory, as a threat. Besides, we are always opened for a dialog and confident, that any difficulties could be solve by negotiations. There are numerous ways for other communities to cooperate with our Power and we will be glad to see their official representatives in our Discord embassy for negotiation. (links can be found on our web-site http://egu.io, our INARA wing http://inara.cz/wing/926, or our FD forum page https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/280857-EG-PILOTS?p=4355487#post4355487)

Fly safe, commanders!

giphy.gif

[/thread]
 
Last edited:
I am going to be a little rude right now. DUDE GO PLAY IN SOLO AND STAY THERE. One of the best gameplay elements in any multiplayer game is the ability to interact with the games environment and ownership of that environment creates content for the players. what Forntier should have done is have player ownership from the beginning.

Real ownership. Not this fake ownership.

What you have now is like being a 7 year old kid where your parents give you an allowance but you can't actually control how it's spent, mommy and daddy think you're to dumb to do it so you have to go through them to touch it and they ultimately make all the final decisions which may or may not be at all related to what you actually want to do.

It's the illusion of ownership. Somehow this loss of immersion isn't a big deal...but instant ship transfers are totally game breaking.
 
Going back to the OP on page 1

Fdev have always screwed about, take my adopted home system Anlave, orginal home to the federal navy and the FN marine corps, a true loyal federation system,
Rich, high tech, full of industry needing what I can supply (especially whens its illegal ;) ) able to resupply me when I get into trouble, and willing to buy anything in my hold
Worked long and hard out of the stations out of there.... come the introduction of player groups and its turned over to an independent group (Hi CONTRAIL guys, no hard feelings ) and they've worked hard to make it fully independent. which goes against the idea of a loyal federation system. And I cant trade there without benefiting them. which is very annoying.

But I've worked with another federation group in the past and I cant imagine how they'd feel if their home system was treated in such an arbitary way, being as they're fairly fanatical(Understatement of the year there)

No, I'm with the OP over this, because player groups that are working the BGS are putting in hours of gameplay to achieve their ends and have that taken away on a whim....... that means any BGS work could be taken away at a moments notice

Bill

<<currently heading for Thor's eye before doing a sharp right turn
It's too late now, but it seems to me that the only sensible way to implement this stuff would be for powerplay to be the BGS.
Meaning once a faction grows and expands enough and passes a threshold, their faction would automatically get their own color influence-bubble on the map. If that faction gets smacked down and loses control of enough systems to drop below the threshold, then their pretty map bubble disappears.
This way the control of who expands where and when is entirely controlled by the player base, and keeps the devs hands out of it.

Of course this would negate the all PP mechanics. But would anyone really miss shipping leaflets?
 
[url]https://s18.postimg.org/9dad1s05h/EGUnion_Logo_White.png[/URL]

On behalf of EG Pilots command we would like to declare the following:
We respect all player and communities of Elite Dangerous, and we respect time and effort they are dedicating to create an unique lore, minor factions development, arranging events, etc. We are confident, that our Power implementation will not be a negative game event, but vise versa it will bring diversity into the game and will add a motivation to pilots. Right now PowerPlay are almost independent from minor faction's BGS actions, and, in that case, our future Power placement should not be perceived by communities, which are situated on that territory, as a threat. Besides, we are always opened for a dialog and confident, that any difficulties could be solve by negotiations. There are numerous ways for other communities to cooperate with our Power and we will be glad to see their official representatives in our Discord embassy for negotiation. (links can be found on our web-site http://egu.io, our INARA wing http://inara.cz/wing/926, or our FD forum page https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/280857-EG-PILOTS?p=4355487#post4355487)

Fly safe, commanders!

Classy move, good to hear that, cheers! (Still a bad decision by FD)
 
So is it okay if EGP goes elsewhere, then expands into SEPP systems and executes them anyway?
.
Actually.. Yes.. at least then there is a logic and process in place that can be "valiantly" prepared for and fought against... There would be time to "see 'em comin' " and prepare for such things.
There's none of that available when the "Paw of Dog" arbitrarily plops down some paint and says "meh.. this looks like a good place for the New Power".
-
Edit: That being said... +1 to the EGP for their Classy reply. It may reduce the fears... but only communication from FDEV will mollify the anger.
 
Last edited:
But what exactly is that benefit? The only difference I (and anyone on the outside looking in) can see is that your groups PP faction would be in charge, not EGP's.

You've still got the exact same situation occuring that you were arguing earlier as the reason you don't want this region under PP influence, which is that PP pledged explorers would still be coming under attack from PP NPCs.
The difference would be there mechanics and modules which benefit explorers in powerplay. I can't tell if you're willfully ignoring that part, which I've stated multiple times, or somehow I'm not making myself clear enough. So here goes:

ADDING modules and gameplay mechanisms to powerplay
OUTWEIGHS the fact that we would not be as powerplay agnostic as we are now

Instead, now we're forced into powerplay but without the explorer friendly modules and mechanisms.

Except that you wouldn't be able to control this. Your faction is going to naturally expand, and any 'casuals' who don't conform to your agenda who are in your faction for whatever reason (usually the module) will drive those expansions through. Even small co-ordinated groups like the Utopians can't guarantee such a strategem's success.
This is why I said we would not be "seeking expansion". We can't force other players to behave as we would like and this is something of which we're well aware. However, as the smallest of the five main Dangerous Games participants, we have a good rapport with a large majority of our supporting players, who are rarely in the bubble anyways, and had reasons to expect we would be able to counteract any casually caused expansions.
 

verminstar

Banned
It seemed like an ill conceived idea, the idea of an explorer nation as a power-play faction for the reasons you put here. There's not going to be much exploring going on while you trudge through the bubble delivering/retrieving goods and shooting NPC's.

Considering I spend about 95% of my game time exploring the black, I actually agree with this point. When they started asking explorers for help with this a while back, my first thought was how in hell they could claim to be a faction when the players they represented were renowned for not really caring what happens in the bubble, and not really spending much time in it. It appears to defy logic.

I've already explored the bubble for intelligent life...my search continues in that respect and have merely extended my search area to take in jacques and everything in between that and the bubble...and beyond. There's nothing left in the bubble that interests me hence I have very little motivation to be there...I'm assuming I'm not the only self confessed explorer that feels the same way. Being one of these power things would mean having a permanent presence within the bubble, and to me, that would be game breaking and the very definition of being contrary to exploration.

While I wish them well and hope they do sort this out, I really don't wanna be involved if it's in the bubble. never mind the fact that even if I wanted to go back right now, I probably wouldn't get back fer the better part of a week. If it was urgent then...a week delay? Doesn't make sense tbh ^^
 
SEPP competed in the Dangerous Games which would have inevitably put them into conflict with those exact powers, so presumably already has the willingness to fight them if necessary. Well, now it's necessary, go fight them...


I feel like this should be quoted a couple dozen times, to be honest. While it's unfortunate for SEPP, if the alternative is screwing over a bunch of players in some other location who had no intent or desire to participate in the DGs in the first place seems like a horrible solution. Besides, wasn't SEPP backing EGP? Why the about-face?
 
Here's how i see it.

Lets say for the sake of argument the new power was not put on SEPP, but very close by.
And the players aligned to that power decide to expand into SEPP's systems and even flip the systems to dictatorships.(not good for SEPP i hear)
That would suck for SEPP, all there thousands hours lost, the shame, the feeling of futility against a overwhelming force..... altogether unpleasant I imagine.
But! they will have made elite history, they would have expanded there lore, there RP.
Beaten but unbroken, roaming the milky-way like nomads in search of a new home or something.

How are you going to RP a developers decision like this?
I'm not saying its impossible its just.. just.. not cool
 

Goose4291

Banned
The difference would be there mechanics and modules which benefit explorers in powerplay. I can't tell if you're willfully ignoring that part, which I've stated multiple times, or somehow I'm not making myself clear enough. So here goes:

ADDING modules and gameplay mechanisms to powerplay
OUTWEIGHS the fact that we would not be as powerplay agnostic as we are now

Instead, now we're forced into powerplay but without the explorer friendly modules and mechanisms.

I get that, but look how different that is from you're original reason why you didn't like it before you started adding additional justification

That was my point...we supply a safe haven to ALL explorers, not just unpledged explorers. We purposefully stay out of powerplay to keep this a safe haven for any pledged explorers, not just if you're pledged to a specific power.

So... how does a SEPP controlled PP bubble provide a safer haven to all explorers than a EGP controlled bubble?

This is why I said we would not be "seeking expansion". We can't force other players to behave as we would like and this is something of which we're well aware. However, as the smallest of the five main Dangerous Games participants, we have a good rapport with a large majority of our supporting players, who are rarely in the bubble anyways, and had reasons to expect we would be able to counteract any casually caused expansions.

Exactly. So you would expand.. and naturally you'd tread on the toes of other player minor factions by placing them under your PP thrall-dom.

Saying you're not going to expand or impact on other player groups (which is what you'd initially wrote) simply isn't going to happen. Do you really think that if you 'kick over someones sandcastle' while saying 'it's wasn't our intent!' that they're going to not mind?
 
It's just insane that they would just hand this over to EGP. Just another example of FD circumventing the game mechanics and playing god. Explorers just keep getting screwed again and again. I'm really disappointed in this decision.
 
I feel like this should be quoted a couple dozen times, to be honest. While it's unfortunate for SEPP, if the alternative is screwing over a bunch of players in some other location who had no intent or desire to participate in the DGs in the first place seems like a horrible solution. Besides, wasn't SEPP backing EGP? Why the about-face?
SEPP never backed EGP. There was a deal made in which other groups agreed to back SEPP should we win week 2. Since we did not, those groups went to back EGP to ensure GalCop did not win.

As for being put in conflict for those same powers...from our pre-DG interviews and info-dumps we made it quite clear that we wanted to expand powerplay mechanics and modules to be explorer-friendly, but would not willfully expand into other powers' territories. We would've stayed and fortified our home systems instead and simply kept to our corner of space.
 

Deleted member 110222

D
I still think player factions are stupid.

And before anyone snipes me, DRX is not a faction. It does not & will not exist formally in the game as a minor faction.

We don't want that.
 
Apologies if this has been covered, but if it has I've missed it. This is not meant as a point of argument, but a point of clarification for me:

If SEPP is remaining in the background sim, how does EGP's entry into PowerPlay affect that, even if their systems overlap?
 
I get that, but look how different that is from you're original reason why you didn't like it before you started adding additional justification
You're conflating two different, but related, issues. We were upfront from Day 1 to explorer-focused players what it would mean if we were a power, including the idea that being pledged to another power would naturally make our systems unsafe for that segment of the population. The response was an overwhelming show of support for SEPP as a power, including Drew Wagar, Erimus, and Dr Kaii along with many other exploration-focused groups. They felt, as did we, that expanding the mechanics for powerplay was a worthy trade off for making our systems less safe to a small subset of players.

Now we're being forced into having our systems unsafe for that same subset of players but without the benefits we had hoped for.
 
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom