[Poll] I call for a motion for the Imperial Government to formally re-brand Imperial Slavery as Imperial Servitude.

[edgar]

Let's, for the sake of argument, assume you are not trolling..

Agreed..bad things happen, so let's make sure the game doesn't celebrate or glorify them as entertainment!

Btw murder, assassination, war, pirating, drug dealing, arms smuggling - these are okay, right? Also please let's all make it clear to makers of 'Fallout' that nuclear war is not the kind of thing we endorse & boycott their product as an act of solidarity with all those who suffered the aftermath at Hiroshima & Nagasaki!

Someone hasn't thought through their emotion-fuelled argument very well!

Yup, it's these "but teh slavery is bad irl" attitudes which are most amusing by far.

Loitering is punishable by death, planets are carpet bombed from orbit, commanders slaughter human characters their thousands daily, cruelty and violence abound in our shared fictional universe.... But pretend slavery is beyond the pale LOL

Imagine a vegan irl getting all moralistic because someone hauled some in-game animal meat from one commodity market to another: that's how silly these "I have an irl problem with in-game NPC slavery" folks sound[squeeeee]

 

[Arkadi]

It would be a difference if with the name change to servitude there also would be an end to imperial slave cargo. Imerpial Service Personnel has to travel as passangers. As long as Imp Slaves or what ever name you have for them travels as cargo there is no use for a name change. If you change the poll like this: let imperials service personnel travel as passanges! I would vote yes. As it is now - it's a clear no! for me.

 

[veryinky]

Changing the label will change none of this. And will not make the concept any more palatable to non-Imperials.

Actually changing the label based on local cultural biases would be interesting, like they'd just be "slaves" outside imperial territory while they'd be "imperial servants" (or whatever) and "foreign slaves" for the other. More or less like Nerve Agents would be "exotic pesticides" inside imperial territory or Ancient Artefacts, Fossil Remnants and mysterious idols would be [REDACTED] at imperial controlled space stations or on board Guatama built ships.

 

[Ian Phillips]

.....Imagine a vegan irl getting all moralistic because someone hauled some in-game animal meat from one commodity market to another: .....

One of my brothers is Vegan.... I'll get onto him right away!

 

[veryinky]

One of my brothers is Vegan.... I'll get onto him right away!

This happened with a fantasy turn based strategy game that I liked called Fallen Enchantress, someone complained that the developers were culturally insensitive by adding cured pork as a food item.

 

[Raumfahrer Spiff]

It would be a difference if with the name change to servitude there also would be an end to imperial slave cargo. Imerpial Service Personnel has to travel as passangers. As long as Imp Slaves or what ever name you have for them travels as cargo there is no use for a name change. If you change the poll like this: let imperials service personnel travel as passanges! I would vote yes. As it is now - it's a clear no! for me.

I would love to see that, actually. In fact, there was a Dev diary, or something, where they were highlighting the differences between normal slaves and Imperial slaves, and one of them was that you couldn't just throw Imperial slaves in with the rest of the cargo, that they had to be treated with a certain level of dignity and comfort, a la passengers. I would love to see imperial slaves be addressed in such a way with the upcoming update, but in the meantime, this is just a small way to further evolve the practice as it stands--small steps and what not.

 

[Ian Phillips]

This happened with a fantasy turn based strategy game that I liked called Fallen Enchantress, someone complained that the developers were culturally insensitive by adding cured pork as a food item.

Why does that not surprise me?

 

[Hellhawk666]

Imperial slavery is indentured servitude. It could just as easily be called that officially, but the Imps prefer to call it slavery. Meh.

 

[Raumfahrer Spiff]

Imperial slavery is indentured servitude. It could just as easily be called that officially, but the Imps prefer to call it slavery. Meh.

Which is why I, as an "Imp", am calling for the change.

 

[veryinky]

Why does that not surprise me?

Looking it up made me feel old, I was sure it happened last year but nope, November 2, 2012 on the Stardock subforum for Fallen Enchantress. Thread titled "Please change salted pork to salted fish or meat" with "Salted pork is a create, cheap item to use to heal your champs instead of going Life tree..but pork isnt kosher/Halal and thus I cant use it. Please change this so the items are culturally acceptable to every player." This started a 185 post thread about how much games should defer to the various cultures and religions of the world.

Just saying that these kinds of topics are rather common out there, it's impossible not to offend someone, somewhere. That and I refuse to play a game that denies me my rights to bacon.

 

[edgar]

Looking it up made me feel old, I was sure it happened last year but nope, November 2, 2012 on the Stardock subforum for Fallen Enchantress. Thread titled "Please change salted pork to salted fish or meat" with "Salted pork is a create, cheap item to use to heal your champs instead of going Life tree..but pork isnt kosher/Halal and thus I cant use it. Please change this so the items are culturally acceptable to every player." This started a 185 post thread about how much games should defer to the various cultures and religions of the world.

Just saying that these kinds of topics are rather common out there, it's impossible not to offend someone, somewhere. That and I refuse to play a game that denies me my rights to bacon.

It is interesting for sure.

For me I'm not playing "myself" as my Commander - even if I wanted to that's *impossible* because many of the attitudes and moral values that inform my personality & character are contingent upon real life 20th 21st century events and things and institutions that do not exist in the setting of Elite Dangerous. It would take some very serious head canon to invent & insert my specific upbringing into the context of the dystopia of the human Bubble circa 3300.

It would be just as stupid as someone roleplaying in the time of Ancient Rome imposing their own contemporary moral framework upon that setting - the NPCs, and the RPers who understand the setting would find modern views against their own form of indentured servitude (or other at-odds-with-us norms) to be just as jarring and out of place there, as those of us that care to take ED's setting in its own context do in the case of the "imperial slavery is EEEVVIIILLLL" crowd here.

 

[Frank]

So did DB's judgement.

In the modern world, you have children sold as sex slaves. Sometimes with the consent of their parents. You have adults in Somolia, brutalized, mutilated, and sold to rival tribes.

And Frontier apparently believes that slavery is an entertaining, immersive trade mechanic, so that players can earn millions and purchase a Cutter. It's repulsive.

<facepalm>

I just wonder if it's posts like this that's preventing us getting our fleshed-out slavery mechanic.

I know that I can only speak for myself but I doubt very very much that anybody here thinks slavery is a good thing. Slavery was in the original 80's version of Elite, and it would appear very odd if it were removed. Michael Brookes has done an excellent job of providing us with a form of slavery that gives us screeds and screeds of debate.

Of course you have the right to make your point, but this is the wrong thread to make that point.

 

[Ziljan]

Why not change the name to Achenar Coffee Grounds, Self-Reproducing Synthetic Meat, or Palladium Alloy?

It's all just text for role playing purposes. Maybe once we get passengers, we'll also get a real slave creation mechanic. But even then it will be largely RP.

But as far as RP goes, I agree with Bomba, if you're worried about the name, and you're an imperial, then maybe you should ask yourself why Khalesi would ban something that was so benign?

 

[DancingShade]

Self reproducing meat products would be a great example of using a politically correct euphemism to label something heinous like slaves. I'm all for it!

 

[The Lavian]

Sounds like rampant political correctness to me.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Nah'... I like reminding my cargo bound for federation space what they really are.

 

[Brian of Ardagh]

I'd hardly be called PC IRL; my contention on the name change is in-game and as a RP mechanism.

It's perfectly fine to include slavery or any of the basest human activities in a game like this. ED isn't Star Trek with their "more enlightened" humanity. Any player is free to choose to be a slave trader or not, just as some games allow you to kill cops or prostitutes. Doing so doesn't mean you, personally support those activities IRL.

I think the poll starts from the wrong premise. It isn't whether we as players think the name should be changed, it's whether the Empire thinks it should be changed. If there's some attempt inside the Empire to "soften" the image of indentured servitude, perhaps as a counter to anti-slavery attempts by Aisling (yes, we are on a 1st name basis) that seek to abolish the practice, then that should be added to the in-game lore.

I would suggest that the OP write up a storyline that supports the change and see if you can get it included in GalNet. Given Aisling's attempts to abolish the practice I wouldn't be surprised by Empire attempts to counter her in a propaganda war.

 

[JeffRyan]

Which is why I, as an "Imp", am calling for the change.

The name and the ambiguity is a big part of what ImpSlavery is about and WHY discussions like this crop up. Rpwise it was interesting justifying it to myself and then justifying backing Aisling. There's the shining white ideal of what we Imps /say/ is ImpSlavery and the real story. Changing the name would be sweeping the most interesting arguments under the rug.

 

[Raumfahrer Spiff]

I'd hardly be called PC IRL; my contention on the name change is in-game and as a RP mechanism.

It's perfectly fine to include slavery or any of the basest human activities in a game like this. ED isn't Star Trek with their "more enlightened" humanity. Any player is free to choose to be a slave trader or not, just as some games allow you to kill cops or prostitutes. Doing so doesn't mean you, personally support those activities IRL.

I think the poll starts from the wrong premise. It isn't whether we as players think the name should be changed, it's whether the Empire thinks it should be changed. If there's some attempt inside the Empire to "soften" the image of indentured servitude, perhaps as a counter to anti-slavery attempts by Aisling (yes, we are on a 1st name basis) that seek to abolish the practice, then that should be added to the in-game lore.

I would suggest that the OP write up a storyline that supports the change and see if you can get it included in GalNet. Given Aisling's attempts to abolish the practice I wouldn't be surprised by Empire attempts to counter her in a propaganda war.

Thanks for the suggestion. That's actually kind of what I was going for. Between the two polls and discussions (I posted one on Reddit, as well--the poll is currently 73% in favor, 334 total votes) I wanted to stir the pot a little bit and just get the dialogue going. Only I didn't realize that anyone could submit Galnet articles? Any information on how to go about that?

I initially proposed this in a meta-sense to help with the automatic misunderstanding that new players have when encountering Imperial slavery for the first time (automatically assuming that the Empire are evil slavers, without getting the nuance or ambiguity unless it's spelled out for them). But from an RP perspective, you are absolutely right, this is a propaganda move 100%. And like any other propaganda, it had to be thrown to the public to see if it would sink or swim. While ultimately I would have liked to make a poll for just Imperial citizens.. I had to work with what was available

 

[Raumfahrer Spiff]

The name and the ambiguity is a big part of what ImpSlavery is about and WHY discussions like this crop up. Rpwise it was interesting justifying it to myself and then justifying backing Aisling. There's the shining white ideal of what we Imps /say/ is ImpSlavery and the real story. Changing the name would be sweeping the most interesting arguments under the rug.

Well, that's kind of what I like about it and why I wouldn't have been happy if there was no argument about it.

On the Imperial side, it's clear that we love our traditions and pomp, but part of that is how highly we regard our image. So when splinters of the society start to feel differently about our long-standing traditions, that's when it's time to bust out the propaganda. Not to mention, the reigning power would have hefty motivation to pull any amount of wind from Aisling's sails.

On the Federal side, I feel it would add even more fuel to the fire to lambaste the Empire for it's "false" superiority of not calling a spade a spade. "You call it servitude, but it's still just evil slavery!"