Like I said above, the issue here is that FD has no actual way to identify combat logging. They can tell if the client suddenly closed but they have no idea why that happened. In fact I have had many times where the game froze on me, often during a jump to another system or during the buggy interdiction mini-game, and I had to close it with the task manager. There were even times where I exited normally through the menu and it managed to freeze during the logout process where the client was still open, and I had to close that with the task manger. The game is simply too buggy to make it possible for FD to "identify" combat loggers reliably. If they even tried do to this the player backlash would be absolutely massive, especially due to the number of unfixed (or even completely unacknowledged) bugs in the game. It is extremely poor customer relations to accuse players of using an "exploit" unless you're absolutely certain it was the player, and not a game bug, that is causing the problem. For this reason alone FD will never do anything about combat logging in the forseable future (i.e., as long as we still have game-breaking bugs that remain unfixed which is basically every new expansion).
Like I said above, the issue here is that FD has no actual way to identify combat logging. They can tell if the client suddenly closed but they have no idea why that happened. In fact I have had many times where the game froze on me, often during a jump to another system or during the buggy interdiction mini-game, and I had to close it with the task manager. There were even times where I exited normally through the menu and it managed to freeze during the logout process where the client was still open, and I had to close that with the task manger. The game is simply too buggy to make it possible for FD to "identify" combat loggers reliably. If they even tried do to this the player backlash would be absolutely massive, especially due to the number of unfixed (or even completely unacknowledged) bugs in the game. It is extremely poor customer relations to accuse players of using an "exploit" unless you're absolutely certain it was the player, and not a game bug, that is causing the problem. For this reason alone FD will never do anything about combat logging in the forseable future (i.e., as long as we still have game-breaking bugs that remain unfixed which is basically every new expansion).
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Couple of weeks ago, I got kicked out by the game every five minutes while tooling around in a CZ. Fortunately, there were no human players around, otherwise, they might have thought I was combat-logging on them.
I'd hate to get banned for "combat-logging" if, in reality, it was the server that pulled the plug on me (it said so clearly in the message box popping up -- and I know for a fact it wasn't my internet connection).
Fly safely, Commanders.
I'd hate to get banned for "combat-logging" if, in reality, it was the server that pulled the plug on me (it said so clearly in the message box popping up -- and I know for a fact it wasn't my internet connection).
Fly safely, Commanders.
This has already been quoted to you:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/105778-Combat-Logging-Update
"First things first: we do consider this an undesirable exploit. It’s not “part of the game”.
...
At some point, however, we will start to take action against Commanders using this exploit. I can only suggest that you should avoid using this exploit if you want to avoid any penalties issued for its use. I'll just repeat: please avoid combat logging - we're taking this issue very seriously."
That is from the Lead Designer of ED. Please stop being a troll - and an awful one at that.
Any further attempts to tell the crowd that combat logging is okay will be reported.
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And from the same source - exiting via the menu is perfectly legitimate 
CharlesD said it up above. It griefs the griefer.
Combat logging is the best way to grief the griefer. Perfectly acceptable action simply because it will improve the community overall.
Simple rule of thumb for your kitchen: You don't let food sit out because it will feed the cockroaches.
Same applies in ED.
Piracy is a legitimate action. Being a griefer is not.
Combat logging is the best way to grief the griefer. Perfectly acceptable action simply because it will improve the community overall.
Simple rule of thumb for your kitchen: You don't let food sit out because it will feed the cockroaches.
Same applies in ED.
Piracy is a legitimate action. Being a griefer is not.
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I'll take contentious subjects for $800, Alex...
And from the same source - exiting via the menu is perfectly legitimate
Yep, that's fine. Anyone using the menu logout is legit, because I understand - as do the devs, hence its introduction - that sometimes RL happens. A game is a game, and if your kid's nappy needs changing or something, whatever. I don't care. In a PvP engagement that's 15 seconds to hit on you anyway.
Force quitting to escape death is cheating.
It's funny how as far as I am concerned, the majority of "open" players including myself are just here to give advice. The "anti-pvp" crowd have immediately jumped on the bandwagon of "use the thread as an opportunity to bash open/pvp".
No-one asked for that. OP asked what combat logging is, I answered in an open and comprehensive manner. Why am I getting replies saying "nah man it's fine to do, griefers suck, I'mma do it anyway because it griefs griefers" - and some assumptions that just because I said combat logging via force quit is unacceptable, I'm a ganker. Okay so what, I could well be. I might not be. But it was never mentioned anywhere and is just a tool for trying to shut down something you don't like the sound of without a legit argument.
So much damn hysteria. You could remove all ganking incidences and I don't think the forum would notice for months, because the hysterical whining is just a vicious circle of indignant complaining. To top off, apart from being calm, I'm condoning the "acceptable" route. Pro-force quitters are condoning actions that are against game rules. So who are the good guys here?
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Combat log = exploit
Menu log = legitimate unless you're using it to avoid piracy or bounty hunting with it instead of using it for actual emergency exit.
Menu log = legitimate unless you're using it to avoid piracy or bounty hunting with it instead of using it for actual emergency exit.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
That's not what Sandro has said - and he's Lead Designer.
Well the support made it clear in a more recent statement that it is not intended for the usage I just describe thus making menu log possibly abused as an exploit.
Edit:
Let's put it this way. Until someone from FD tells me the Piracy and Bounty hunting in their multiplayer aspect require the explicit consent of all involved parties at the time of their occurrence.
That means piracy needs the trader to agree to becoming a victim at the time of piracy in order for "piracy" (or begging in this case) to occur.
And that bounty hunting needs the criminal to agree to become hunted at the time of "bounty hunting" (or arranged PvP in this case) to occur.
Neither of these are confirmed by the developers.
Not to mention the whole reason combat logging was labeled as an exploit was because that it was "avoiding damage, loss, or defeat," in a way that has no viable counter play.
Thus it's asinine to think that FD is providing the equivalence of combat logging. Menu log is a function provided for players to leave the game when there is a real life emergency.
It wouldn't make sense otherwise.
If it's implemented to defend players against mythical "griefers," then it should be an instant shut down like combat log since random player killers have a much easier time with the 15 second window than actual pirates and bounty hunters. The implementation actually encourages "griefing" behaviors since there is no indication whether the player is taking time to respond or logging off.
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It already has a "in-danger" timer that may be increased, and it's quite possible to explode ships well within this timer. I think that is partly why people use this mechanic - as getting blown up in a short period of time with absolutely nothing you can do about it isn't much fun for some people. You cannot compel someone to play beyond what they wish to play, which buttons they press, or indeed where in-game or mode they choose to play in.
Being able to exit the game any time a player chooses is absolutely up to them. Remove their ability to do so in a legitimate in-game manner, and people will find one of a couple of dozen "just-add-water" ways to achieve it anyway - usually at the detriment of the player who wants to compel them to remain in-game.
The problem is that the implementation of menu log actually encourages the play style of shoot first and question later, it's a catalyst for a vicious cycle. (As I have explained in the post above)
The issue is that if a player chooses to play in an environment with others, then others' time must be respected. Of course random player killers aren't exactly being considerate since it introduces no context/restraint to hostile interaction, which is why crime and punishment update should take priority.
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That's a good point (and encountered the same things you did).
It's looking like there is no solution.
Well a crime and punishment review and update would certainly be welcome, but the actual mechanic and implementation of menu-logging at will should be left as-is.
It shouldn't since the timer is far too short.
And since it's purposed for real life emergencies, the exit button should be press-able right away for the user to walk away. This way if the encounter is a psycho, and if the user's ship gets blown up, crime and punishment will punish said psycho (considering user's ship is clean). And if the encounter is bounty hunter/pirate, then they may do what they need in the extended time necessary.
Otherwise all we have is "Ops, real life emergency called 'I don't want to lose my ship/cargo.' Let me shut down real quick."
It's literally handing legitimate combat logging to players and that is not okay.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
I would contend that Sandro's "public" statement on the forums carries more weight than a private response to a support ticket.
As to circumstances in which a player may leave, I strongly suggest that you re-read Sandro's post:
When he says "the official stance on exiting the game via the menu, at any point, is that it is legitimate", it leaves no doubt in my mind regarding his meaning - especially when he then goes on to say "we can't speak for how other Commanders view such actions" - an acknowledgement that some players will disagree with Frontier's position.
Because a support ticket is actually a response to a specific question (especially when it's more recent), and regardless, they are both FD employees.
I doubt he considered the points I'm pointing out, which leads to an oversight. Let's be honest here, Devs don't check the forum much at all.
Edit:
And also, let's be honest here, I had the executive producer tell me 20 ton canister player cargo limit everywhere was "working as intended," and look what happened. (Not bashing Brookes but just pointing that out)
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So are you going to pay people to play with you? Until then you have no say in whatever someone else spends their time doing in a game. People will launch or exit a game when they want to - not when someone else dictates.
A quick, clean, legitimate game exit for the player who, for whatever reason, no longer wants to play is far, far preferable to them cooking up some half-researched abomination that doesn't work properly and wrecks instances and desyncs everyone on their matching list wether they are in the same instance or not.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
.... in quite different roles. One is in a position to influence the design of the game.
I very much doubt that Sandro is unaware that players have conflicting play-styles.
Right, and the other is to maintain the integrity and be aware of all the status quo. And said other confirmed that it is not an intended feature for avoiding piracy and bounty hunting.
Oh he's definitely aware of that, but the details is what they keep forgetting as I've pointed out in my example in my edit.
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And they will face appropriate compensation or punishment for that choice. If someone engages in a game of chess with you and just suddenly wipe the board and walk away whenever they're at a disadvantage, what kind of game is that?
Even Sandro brought up points about compensating those getting logged on.
Edit:
While ED is by no means a competitive game, it is however a sandbox that has moments of competitive play/interaction. Players need to accept that during those interactions, both players' time and investment need to be respected. (Hence why random player killers need to be bashed over the head by crime and punishment)
A simple compensation for those affected will do (and punishment if random player killer), no need to go all fancy.
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