Horizons What is Combat Logging?

[Robert Maynard]

Right, and the other is to maintain the integrity and be aware of all the status quo. And said other confirmed that it is not an intended feature for avoiding piracy and bounty hunting.

Unintended - possibly. A balance between the desires of some players in relation to others - very probably (plus the fundamental requirement that players must be able to leave the game when they choose).

Oh he's definitely aware of that, but the details is what they keep forgetting as I've pointed out in my example in my edit.

Ah yes - the 20 canister limit (as a result of instance bombing by players in and around stations) - again, a balance between the desires of those who wish a reasonable framerate and those who wish to extract cargo - I wonder how much optimisation occurred bweteen the implementation of the 20t limit and its relaxation (but only outwith station instances)....

 

[GluttonyFang]

Unintended - possibly. A balance between the desires of some players in relation to others - very probably (plus the fundamental requirement that players must be able to leave the game when they choose).

The ability to leave whenever one chooses can be implemented by making the exit button press-able immediately and let the timer count down.

And I don't understand what you mean by desires of players in relation to others. If you are suggesting that players should have the ability to avoid PvP in Open mode then they've failed considerably considering how menu log in its current state encourages random player killing and hurts any other interaction.

Ah yes - the 20 canister limit (as a result of instance bombing by players in and around stations) - again, a balance between the desires of those who wish a reasonable framerate and those who wish to extract cargo - I wonder how much optimisation occurred bweteen the implementation of the 20t limit and its relaxation (but only outwith station instances)....

Uh... no, the 20 canister limit was to resolve the issue of station bombing. In an attempt to resolve the issue, they overlooked player cargo transaction.

 

[Asp Explorer]

The 20 ton cargo limit was a mistake I think, a response to cargo being weaponised to cause potato machines to lag, and the interior of stations to become minefields

I remember glorious instances of hundreds of canisters, unfortunately when we still had the AMD brightness bug

They did increase the limit again I think, but I barely remember the time I last had any cargo to dump.

 

[GluttonyFang]

The 20 ton cargo limit was a mistake I think, a response to cargo being weaponised to cause potato machines to lag, and the interior of stations to become minefields

I remember glorious instances of hundreds of canisters, unfortunately when we still had the AMD brightness bug

They did increase the limit again I think, but I barely remember the time I last had any cargo to dump.

Station bombing was real @_@

 

[Asp Explorer]

Station bombing was real @_@

Of course it was!

https://vimeo.com/95816397

Bringing potato machines to their knees, and the AMD bug in it's full glory

 

[GluttonyFang]

Of course it was!

https://vimeo.com/95816397

Bringing potato machines to their knees, and the AMD bug in it's full glory

Oh I remember the days.

We used to run Operation Robin Hood and dump gold for new players in starter systems and the chat was ambivalent:

"MY FPS!"

"OMG GOLD!"

Edit:

It's nostalgic and sad at the same time. Credits used to mean something back in the day, not anymore @_@

 

[StiTch]

The ability to leave whenever one chooses can be implemented by making the exit button press-able immediately and let the timer count down.

Always seemed weird to me. The devs made it clear in a post I can't remember where that the menu log is for when real life happens. I understand the motive, but the method is pretty counterintuitive.

 

[Devari]

The issue here is that FD has chosen to develop the game using P2P architecture rather than a much more expensive and resource-intensive central server. The major weakness of this in the context of combat logging is that there is literally nothing they can do to enforce it. They've made a deliberate game design choice and now they have to live with it.

Alternatively, the issues of combat logging would be much less problematic if FD could produce a generally reliable and balanced game. When interdictions insta-fail upwards of 10% of the time despite submitting properly, and the thermal shock/heat meta is ridiculously OP, that encourages players to combat log. If the game is bugged and "forces" you to fail an interdiction, why should a player simply stick around to allow their ship to be destroyed? If there is one viable PvP build (heat weapons) and this build is not particularly useful for PvE, why should a player stick around to fight an imbalanced, lopsided battle that they have no real chance of winning because they didn't bring the "right" loadout? When there is no actual advantage for a player to sticking around to fight, i.e., the bounties/rewards of doing so are pathetically low, and the cost of losing your ship is very high, then why would a player want to stay around to begin with?

Until FD has addressed these problems the issue of combat logging is sort of a moot point. When FD can create a balanced gameplay experience which allows players to enjoy PvE/PvP activities simultaneously with the same loadout (i.e. fix the OP heat meta), when PvP combat actually rewards participation for both sides in PvP (i.e., there should be a purpose to fight both as a pirate or as a trader) and when they fix the interdiction bugs that have made the game unplayable for dedicated traders then (and only then) does it makes sense to start talking about the issue of combat logging. At this point combat logging is simply a symptom of a fundamentally broken gameplay experience that FD needs to fix.

 

[Hexcaliber]

Combat logging?

When players attack for no reason other than to spoil someone else's fun... I say keep on combat logging!

Combat Logging has two undeniable benefits. First, it protects you from the consequences of someone else's derangement. Second, you won't feed the trolls as you deny their "fun". If trolls don't get fed they go away... or quit.

It is a win-win because the community will gradually improve if trolls are not fed.

Someone playing with a "pirate" strategy is another story. Piracy is legitimate.

PVP is part and parcel of the game in open, you consent to open pvp every time you elect to play in that game mode. Other game modes are provided if you do not wish to take part, with many established private groups offering pvp free environments for group play. Further, all pvp in open is "legitimate", you do not get to pick and chose because you are on the losing end.

If you do not want to take part in pvp, do not play in open, it is that simple; if you do, then combat log, you are by definition a cheat and a griefer. As a combat logger you are circumventing game play mechanics using non gameplay means, and affecting the gameplay of others, and frankly more accounts should be banned for repeat offending.

 

[Asp Explorer]

If you do not want to take part in pvp, do not play in open, it is that simple; if you do, then combat log you are by definition a cheat. As you are circumventing game play mechanics using non gameplay means, and frankly more accounts should be banned for repeat offending.

Since when has Open been purely a PVP mode?

Wasn't the original intent of the developers that "PvP be rare and meaningful" and that "cooperative play is encouraged"? That doesn't explicitly say that Open is PvP mode.

Logging out of the game using in-game mechanics cannot, by definition, be circumventing game play mechanics using non gameplay means - you have to log out using the menu for it to be legitimate and not potentially flagged up by Watchdog. There are dozens, literally dozens of ways of doing it - and complaining about in-game methods that are officially sanctioned doesn't seem to make much sense.

By all means - complain about those who combat log using nefarious methods that are not legitimate - report them if you feel you have adequate proof - but legitimate logouts cannot ever be actioned against.

 

[Hexcaliber]

Since when has Open been purely a PVP mode?

Wasn't the original intent of the developers that "PvP be rare and meaningful" and that "cooperative play is encouraged"? That doesn't explicitly say that Open is PvP mode.

Logging out of the game using in-game mechanics cannot, by definition, be circumventing game play mechanics using non gameplay means - you have to log out using the menu for it to be legitimate and not potentially flagged up by Watchdog. There are dozens, literally dozens of ways of doing it - and complaining about in-game methods that are officially sanctioned doesn't seem to make much sense.

By all means - complain about those who combat log using nefarious methods that are not legitimate - report them if you feel you have adequate proof - but legitimate logouts cannot ever be actioned against.

Pvp is part of playing in open, it is permitted, is non consensual, and is even promoted as a viable career path within the game; everyone knows it, even those intent on being obtuse.

Further, no one is talking about logging out through the menu, that should be obvious. We are talking about those that hit the router power switch, kill the task, pull leads and so on; sadly it happens all too frequently and is not punished at all.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Pvp is part of playing in open, it is permitted, is non consensual, and is even promoted as a viable career path within the game; everyone knows it, even those intent on being obtuse.

Further, no one is talking about logging out through the menu, that should be obvious. We are talking about those that hit the router power switch, kill the task, pull leads and so on; sadly it happens all too frequently and is not punished at all.

Because without proof - there is nothing to punish.

FD can conceivably tell when the task is killed, LAN cable disconnected, wifi switched off - because these events are visible to the OS and could be monitored by their watchdog.exe.

That has certain privacy and data logging concerns that might make such an approach legally impossible - but it could certainly be done.

 

[foebits]

This has already been quoted to you:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/105778-“Combat-Logging”-Update

"First things first: we do consider this an undesirable exploit. It’s not “part of the game”.

...

At some point, however, we will start to take action against Commanders using this exploit. I can only suggest that you should avoid using this exploit if you want to avoid any penalties issued for its use. I'll just repeat: please avoid combat logging - we're taking this issue very seriously."

That is from the Lead Designer of ED. Please stop being a troll - and an awful one at that.

Any further attempts to tell the crowd that combat logging is okay will be reported.

OOOOh, I'm shaking in my boots! Go ahead and report me for having read different things than you, by all means. You've already proven unable to comprehend what people are saying (ignoring that people also consider menu logging as combat logging as well is proof of that) so why not go all the way and report people for disagreeing with, and proving, you wrong?

<Badgering removed>
OH, and combat logging is deemed as okay from what I, and many others have read, having come straight from the devs, so, happy reporting.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Can't wait to see the mods shake their head as they close this thread

*Chuckles in the background*

 

[foebits]

Can't wait to see the mods shake their head as they close this thread

*Chuckles in the background*

I think they shake their heads at most of them.

 

[Asp Explorer]

I think they shake their heads at most of them.

I'm not sure - I think the mods get a pretty good laugh out of most of them

 

[X-Terminator]

"What is Combat Logging?" - ANSWER = It is not by quitting to the Main Menu but pulling out the power/Ethernet cable on the router or Alt+F4 which is a crime punishable by Shadow Ban.

 

[Asp Explorer]

"What is Combat Logging?" - ANSWER = It is not by quitting to the Main Menu but pulling out the power/Ethernet cable on the router or Alt+F4 which is a crime punishable by Shadow Ban.

lulz

Anyone unschooled enough to have to resort to that deserves to be shadowbanned.

Why unplug a cable? Why annoy your router? Why wake up your alt key? These are all methods of Scrub.

No - resist the urge - learn to annoy pew-pews the right way Learn the Asp way.

For only $10,000 in a non-refundable money transfer, I'll teach you how to have a random power cut. Or your youngest child plays at cementing up your power outlets with ice-cream. Or your cat develops a taste for Cat 6. Or you invite your recovering alcoholic neighbour over for drinks and dinner, and after the 8th bottle of rum they go on a rampage and knock over a telegraph pole while trying to zip-run down it with their underpants.

For only $100,000 I'll show you how to melt routers remotely using nothing but a flamethrower. That's a $500,000 value!

But wait - there's MOAR!

For absolutely free, I'll show you how to have fun in a video game, at your own pace and speed, by playing how and when you want to, and completely ignoring other people who somehow think that their gaming experience is far more important than your own.

Log on when you want. Log off when you want. If people moan about that - enjoy your free lulz

 

[X-Terminator]

The worse bit about it is they don't tell you but you no longer see any players in OPEN...hmmm now I come to think about it...where are they all?

 

[StiTch]

OOOOh, I'm shaking in my boots! Go ahead and report me for having read different things than you, by all means. You've already proven unable to comprehend what people are saying (ignoring that people also consider menu logging as combat logging as well is proof of that) so why not go all the way and report people for disagreeing with, and proving, you wrong?

Jesus. Threatening to report someone over something so petty. You must be very proud to be so self serving. Or maybe your the very troll you have accused me of being? Either way it's as I've stated before: simply beneath me at this point to deal with your foolishness. OH, and combat logging is deemed as okay from what I, and many others have read, having come straight from the devs, so, happy reporting.

I generally can't be bothered but you are actively lying, and lying about what devs have said at that.

You have had the quote from the lead designer himself thrown at you twice. I think it is safe to say that he has the correct information on better authority than you.

Show me the quote from a dev stating that combat logging is acceptable, instead of this tirade of insults because you have no better argument. Otherwise, you get no more of my effort, because your posts haven't been worth the time it takes to open my phone.