Suggestion for shadowban server

[Lucifer Hate]

I have seen posts where people admit to things like combat logging and say that if FD wants to shadowban them then go ahead as playing solo don't bother them https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ogging/page3?p=4557037&viewfull=1#post4557037. Shadowban needs to be more of a punishment like it was intended to be. I have a few suggestions to help that and make it where people might consider the consequences before doing some things. It has been said shadowban does not effect BGS but this is not enough of a deterrent

1. Raise (at least 5x) cost of repairs, refuels, rearms while in the shadowban server.
2. Have a higher % of insurance paid (maybe 25% more at least) by the player in the shadowban server
3. Ship and module cost in the shadowban server higher(perhaps 50% minimum)
4. Missions, trade dividends, bounties, etc. lowered (25%-50%) in the shadowban server.
5. Instances of exploiting in shadowban server cause the shadow ban to be extended

As it stands right now shadowbans are like a vacation to solo and that is a punishment with no teeth. It also is a punishment that they cannot say they can't play the game as they are not banned, but they play it with less luxury than it offers now. I think if they have to do time in a server like this it will be a deterrent that it is not at this time. When people say they would rather face shadowban than play the game correctly, then shadowban becomes a joke rather than a punishment.

 

[bigity]

How about a shadowban for a combat logger becomes forced open status?

 

[Oh Seven Commander]

How about a shadowban for a combat logger becomes forced open status?

Then they keep combat logging.

 

[Dbrn47]

Being banned from playing with other people is punishment enough imo. Combat logging on NPCs doesn't affect anyone. The idea is to stop this sort of behavior from affecting others and shadowban does that. Their solo experience shouldn't be ruined on top of it.

 

[X-Terminator]

Shadow huh. I don't see why it doesn't simply Ban them from OPEN/GROUP for some time.

 

[Lucifer Hate]

Being banned from playing with other people is punishment enough imo. Combat logging on NPCs doesn't affect anyone. The idea is to stop this sort of behavior from affecting others and shadowban does that. Their solo experience shouldn't be ruined on top of it.

FD said they consider this an exploit whether it is done in solo or open. Also if they CL on a NPC in solo that is about to kill them then go on to complete missions or trades they are carrying it does affect others. All modes affect other players. Also as the post I showed said as well as others have seen before show that banning them to solo has no punishment effect. This makes me think of another addition to the original post

5. Instances of exploiting in shadowban server cause the shadow ban to be extended

CL on NPC can affect PP as well as trade route prices, BGS, etc. so anything you do affects others. Solo is not single player but Multi player in a private instance.

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Shadow huh. I don't see why it doesn't simply Ban them from OPEN/GROUP for some time.

I mention the shadow ban as it is something FD has said they have

 

[Dbrn47]

FD said they consider this an exploit whether it is done in solo or open. Also if they CL on a NPC in solo that is about to kill them then go on to complete missions or trades they are carrying it does affect others. All modes affect other players. Also as the post I showed said as well as others have seen before show that banning them to solo has no punishment effect. This makes me think of another addition to the original post

5. Instances of exploiting in shadowban server cause the shadow ban to be extended

CL on NPC can affect PP as well as trade route prices, BGS, etc. so anything you do affects others. Solo is not single player but Multi player in a private instance.

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I mention the shadow ban as it is something FD has said they have

I don't think there are enough loggers to meaningfully affect any of that stuff...

 

[xondk]

then shadowban becomes a joke rather than a punishment.

I do not understand why you think shadowbans are a joke, they cannot play with anyone, they cannot do anything with anyone, granted if they didn't want to do that anyway, then no change, but then on the flipside their actions don't frustrate other people anymore? win win? making shadowban 'different' in stats or such kinda removes the whole point of a shadowban? it is supposed to be a ban you do not notice.

 

[Robert Maynard]

If the client was 100% stable and never, ever, crashed then identifying those who ungracefully leave the game would be easier for Frontier.

Similarly, if every player's internet connection was 100% stable.

However, neither are the case.

Also take into account Frontier's stated position on delayed menu exit (i.e. it can be used at any time).

It is possible that many accusations of Combat Logging are made against those who have gracefully left the game.

 

[xondk]

If the client was 100% stable and never, ever, crashed then identifying those who ungracefully leave the game would be easier for Frontier.

Similarly, if every player's internet connection was 100% stable.

However, neither are the case.

Also take into account Frontier's stated position on delayed menu exit (i.e. it can be used at any time).

It is possible that many accusations of Combat Logging are made against those who have gracefully left the game.

I'd like to add:
If computers were 100% stable.
IF users never made their systems unstable.

 

[mp4x]

I think doing anything other than the shadowban/temp ban is overreaching.

The players own the game and they can use it how they want. FD owns(?) the server, they can decide how we interact with it.

 

[Lucifer Hate]

If the client was 100% stable and never, ever, crashed then identifying those who ungracefully leave the game would be easier for Frontier.

Similarly, if every player's internet connection was 100% stable.

However, neither are the case.

Also take into account Frontier's stated position on delayed menu exit (i.e. it can be used at any time).

It is possible that many accusations of Combat Logging are made against those who have gracefully left the game.

Yeah but look at the people that do it all the time when in combat and it is pretty easy to tell when a pattern emerges. Also it is pretty easy to tell a menu log from a task kill. If you look at the elitecombatloggers subreddit and especially those with multiple reports it is easy to say it isnt connection issues

A menu log counter takes 15 seconds in which time you cannot make changes in what your ship is doing. If you started it flying in a straight line your stuck doing that so if they are doing evasive moves then disappear then it is obvious task kill. If they are gonna allow graceful exits with the 15 second timer they need to tell people piracy is not a viable career and quit advertising piracy as such. A graceful exit takes 15 second and disabling shields and using hatchbreakers take longer than that. They need to make it so the timer resets when damage is taken otherwise people are gonna keep using a FD approved exploit

 

[Robert Maynard]

If they are gonna allow graceful exits with the 15 second timer they need to tell people piracy is not a viable career and quit advertising piracy as such. A graceful exit takes 15 second and disabling shields and using hatchbreakers take longer than that. They need to make it so the timer resets when damage is taken otherwise people are gonna keep using a FD approved exploit

Piracy does not require to have player targets. If the chosen player target is willing to roleplay the engagement then player piracy works.

Frontier have chosen to permit players to leave the game when they choose - not to force them to stay in the game to be subject to the whims of another player - that's why I expect any calls for the 15-second timer to be reset on damage to be unsuccessful.

.... and there's no such thing as a "FD approved exploit" - there are, however (as Frontier acknowledge) game features that not every player will agree with.

 

[Lucifer Hate]

Piracy does not require to have player targets. If the chosen player target is willing to roleplay the engagement then player piracy works.

Frontier have chosen to permit players to leave the game when they choose - not to force them to stay in the game to be subject to the whims of another player - that's why I expect any calls for the 15-second timer to be reset on damage to be unsuccessful.

.... and there's no such thing as a "FD approved exploit" - there are, however (as Frontier acknowledge) game features that not every player will agree with.

Then they still need to punish those not doing it the right way and there is plenty of evidence of those. The current banning to what is little more than solo is not doing anything against those that they said over a year and a half ago were committing what they consider an exploit. You have people on your own forum saying they have no problem with being shadowbanned for breaking rules so they need to make it so that it is a punishment they should not want

 

[bitstorm]

Yeah but look at the people that do it all the time when in combat and it is pretty easy to tell when a pattern emerges. Also it is pretty easy to tell a menu log from a task kill. If you look at the elitecombatloggers subreddit and especially those with multiple reports it is easy to say it isnt connection issues

A menu log counter takes 15 seconds in which time you cannot make changes in what your ship is doing. If you started it flying in a straight line your stuck doing that so if they are doing evasive moves then disappear then it is obvious task kill. If they are gonna allow graceful exits with the 15 second timer they need to tell people piracy is not a viable career and quit advertising piracy as such. A graceful exit takes 15 second and disabling shields and using hatchbreakers take longer than that. They need to make it so the timer resets when damage is taken otherwise people are gonna keep using a FD approved exploit

THe issue there is that most PvP attacks aren't piracy.

From my experience it's some guy in a pure combat focused vessel looking to gank someone.

The times I have tried to engage and give them a fight their wing drops in just to make sure you can't win.

I have had a sum total of one proper piracy experience, the rest have been about killing someone for the sake of killing someone.

It sums to... get ganked, pay ten million. It's just an exercise in futility where the person attacked pays and there's no repercussions for the person doing the attacking. I think lots of people just couldn't be       with it anymore.

The piracy experience was good though, it was in the recent Gold CG, first time I was interdicted I jumped, and only after spotted the piracy RP in chat.

Second time I stopped, gave the dude a bunch of gold, it was fun but in the end I could see it was a relatively unprofitable exercise for him.

 

[Lucifer Hate]

THe issue there is that most PvP attacks aren't piracy.

From my experience it's some guy in a pure combat focused vessel looking to gank someone.

The times I have tried to engage and give them a fight their wing drops in just to make sure you can't win.

I have had a sum total of one proper piracy experience, the rest have been about killing someone for the sake of killing someone.

It sums to... get ganked, pay ten million. It's just an exercise in futility where the person attacked pays and there's no repercussions for the person doing the attacking. I think lots of people just couldn't be with it anymore.

The piracy experience was good though, it was in the recent Gold CG, first time I was interdicted I jumped, and only after spotted the piracy RP in chat.

Second time I stop, gave the dude a bunch of gold, it was fun but in the end I could see it was a wholely non-profitable exercise for him.

That is still within the rules where ungraceful exit is not. Have done plenty of wing piracy and solo piracy where they disappear as soon as they get the message. Have also when pirating only killed those that did not comply and tried to run. They combat log whether it is piracy or not

 

[Robert Maynard]

That is still within the rules where ungraceful exit is not. Have done plenty of wing piracy and solo piracy where they disappear as soon as they get the message. Have also when pirating only killed those that did not comply and tried to run. They combat log whether it is piracy or not

Probably because, in their experience, it is more often than not not piracy - and is just a few seconds before rebuy (with no meaningful consequences for the attacker(s)).

The game would benefit significantly, in my opinion, from an in-game formal declaration of Piracy, with in-game methods of demanding / haggling over the amount of booty to be dropped - also with adverse consequences for the pirate if the target was destroyed after the agreed booty drop had been made.

 

[Lucifer Hate]

Probably because, in their experience, it is more often than not not piracy - and is just a few seconds before rebuy (with no meaningful consequences for the attacker(s)).

Thing is whether it is piracy or not, FD has said killing for any reason or none at all is within the rules of the game. When you choose open you have to accept that as a possibility, even NPCs do it. To ungraceful exit is something that they said over a year and a half ago was an exploit.

But this conversation has gotten off track. This was a suggestion about making shadowban a true punishment for anything it is to be used for and not to argue just combat logging

 

[Martind Forlon]

my 2 cents: first time spotted 'crash exit in fight = tech.issue / bad luck / whatsoever; second time spotted = direct and clear mail + ingame warning (cmdr have chance prove his issues) ; third = shadowban (with additions in OP). Add some timer to 'erase' steps 1-3.

Menu-log is making some newly coming weapons/upgrades useless ... why bother with high-wake and risk fsd 'restart' when I can guaranteed escape to main-menu?

And before will start here cry some cmdr about his 'rights' ... there should be VERY CLEARLY explained IN GAME what is 'Open', it's risks/benefits and possible punishment. If you click open, you should be able dealt with your decision and face consequences with 'head up', not a mess which happens daily.

p.s.I'm not pvper ....

 

[Robert Maynard]

Thing is whether it is piracy or not, FD has said killing for any reason or none at all is within the rules of the game. When you choose open you have to accept that as a possibility, even NPCs do it. To ungraceful exit is something that they said over a year and a half ago was an exploit.

Indeed. However, players complain about graceful exit too and bemoan the fact that they cannot engage in the gameplay they want to in Open because other players have the option to leave the encounter.

Players seeking to avoid particular types of encounters are often told to go to Solo / Private Groups - this would seem to apply equally to those who seek to avoid meeting players who might use menu exit as much as to players who seek to avoid all combat interactions with players.