The ED Open Live Stream

[Soon(TM)]

I for one am very glad the ED team played in open and experienced what it's like to face the maxed out PVP groups.

Now maybe they understand why many play private and solo, especially when doing Community Goals.

Next, i would like them to do another open stream, with real accounts, with only 20 million credits max, and then attempt to do a real Community Goal in open.

Then they can experience the pain of a REAL rebuy.

Hopefully this will finally show them what they have done to open play with engineers and its upgrades.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Then they can experience the pain of a REAL rebuy.

LOL, they are playing with dev accounts with effectively as many credits as they want. There was no salt to be farmed by anyone because they could just shrug off the rebuys. Its probably even their actual play accounts (i'd hope not!). When they fly their own accounts, i presume they do not use their actual names or any known aliases. Some of us might even be friends with their real CMDR accounts and not even know it.

 

[Soon(TM)]

They should be given an account with limited funds and be asked to play in open and see if they can avoid running out of credits and being put back into a sidewinder.

They need to be made to feel like the rest of us, that credits are not infinite.

Using accounts with infinite credits will always give them the "meh" mentality because they know a death doesn't matter to them when they can't run out of money.

 

[bitstorm]

I think the idea is good.

Perhaps a Python and an FdL were the wrong choice though.

Do it in Eagles or Vipers or something, you then encourage the folk turning up to bring small ships too.

And everyone can die many times and not have to worry about it!

Sure some idiots may turn up in Corvettes but even if you are griefed the insurance is so little it doesn't matter.

 

[TomP]

I thought there were several interesting things that happened, forgive the list:

1) Their initial response was fun and amusement.

2) In spite of having alleged magic dev accounts, that fun rapidly deteriorated, particularly in the case of Adam, to upset.

3) Ed showed genuine surprise that the station security was so ineffective, as both Dav and Adam were repeatedly caned when trying to exit.

4) When Ed tried to make a point about this sort of behaviour, afte the Harry Potter incident, referring to players, support staff and devs: "Nohody likes this", a well known perpetrator immediately sent a message, visible onscreen: "Well 4 people have just combat logged so that's ruining the game too." A true Donald Trump moment.

5) Never since Blue Peter presenters tasting the flapjack on screen have so many teeth been so gritted in faux enthusiasm: "It was definitely fun" they said. Hoho.

 

[Soon(TM)]

I agree, you could see towards the end they were beginning to feel the sour taste of Engineers weapons on their tongues.

What made me laugh was ED Lewis at the end saying there would be a trade open live stream but they would set "Rules" that only certain ships would be allowed and that they would recruit some players to act as police.

As if anyone from SDC will even agree to ANY rules in open.

It's just going to be a other gank fest as soon as they learn what system they're doing it in.

And who is going to police: the diamond frogs, lab rats, fuel rats, Hutton truckers?

They ain't really PVP groups, and the PvP groups won't want to be "Police"

Good luck with that one FD!

 

[Martind Forlon]

Instead making another thread could be used some from already existing for spit on Engineers , which are ofc not the real reason why they died so effectively . Real reason was lack of experience and use of big "costly" ships in environment (open) which needs experience and preparation if player want survive there (on public places ...). Next reason for fail was, that they openly announcement theirs future plans so attackers had it very easy ... real open player is able adjust his plans (while he still stay in open) using situational awareness and this simply was not possible in given stream. It was great experience imo (for FDEvs), but myself see benefits much different as is given in OP.

 

[TomP]

An amusing soft fix would be for the Devs to have ludicrously OP mods. Preferably not saying anything before the attention seekers show up. I'd enjoy seeing the salty yellow text.

 

[Soon(TM)]

Instead making another thread could be used some from already existing for spit on Engineers , which are ofc not the real reason why they died so effectively . Real reason was lack of experience and use of big "costly" ships in environment (open) which needs experience and preparation if player want survive there. Next reason for fail was, that they opemly announcement theirs future plans so attackers had it very easy ... real open player is able adjust his plans using situational awareness and this simply was not possible in given stream. It was great experience imo (for FDEvs), but myself see benefits much different as is given in OP.

That's not accurate at all.

People with ED 1.7 and no Horizons have no access to Engineers mods, so can never match their opponents, nobody knows the true player base split between horizons and non horizons owners other than FD so we don't know how big an impact Engineers is having in reality.
Maybe huge, maybe small, but the imbalance is there.

In games such as WOW which is also a MMO like ED, players can avoid these imbalances by playing PVE servers or by not entering the higher lvl zones, in ED this is not an option.

Also, when you take part in a Community Goal, Everyone knows where it is, so the effect is basically the same as what happened to the devs in this live stream. basically everyone knows where your going to be, or at least a large portion of players.

So your excuse isn't really accurate saying it's not realistic, it was a realistic reflection on how a Community Goal can play out in open.

That's why many players do CGs in private and solo.

 

[TomP]

It's worth giving a shout out to the genuine wing mates who helped out on that video. Their buy backs were real and they did a good job. Well done, you lot. [up]

 

[Forumate]

I for one am very glad the ED team played in open and experienced what it's like to face the maxed out PVP groups.

Now maybe they understand why many play private and solo, especially when doing Community Goals.

Next, i would like them to do another open stream, with real accounts, with only 20 million credits max, and then attempt to do a real Community Goal in open.

Then they can experience the pain of a REAL rebuy.

Hopefully this will finally show them what they have done to open play with engineers and its upgrades.

I don't think making the devs salty and upset is a good idea. How will that help create a more enjoyable game for all of us to play?

 

[Martind Forlon]

... People with ED 1.7 and no Horizons have no access to Engineers mods, so

... you can use solo or private groups if you do not want support ED development (or developers team) and do not have Horizons or are lazy (or don't like) invest your time to upgrade your ships (and please not use argument about casual players, ... I'm too casual player). I can think what I want about marketing decision like was put all eng. bases on planetary starports only, but it was done such way and we can only accept it, and decide what to do with this from our side (buy, leave game, avoid public places in open etc. .. I think that this was also very heavily discussed here on forums). Stream experience was also about how "not to do things" and it is again not exclusively Engineers fault. Be prepared, know your possibilities and limitations and then you can have success (or survive when on bad places in bad times) ... this is what you need most while play ED (open). This open stream situation was unrealistic in many ways and you as long time player knows this well too . It was real in effect what will happen when inexperienced commander come to CG in open in bad time, but then he can learn from this and ask how to be better (if want play in open) or use easier way ...

... and ppl play in PP or solo also bcs want smooth relax, or don't like being under other player fire, and/or want maximise theirs profit/time using crappy builds and huge amount of other personal reasons.

 

[Soon(TM)]

I don't think making the devs salty and upset is a good idea. How will that help create a more enjoyable game for all of us to play?

They might realise how bad it really can be in open when doing things like Community Goals.

Maybe it will make them add in a real crime and punishment system.

The Pilots Federation is exactly that, a federation, of people, that are supposed to work together.

If you murder a pilots federation member in an authority system you should be wanted in all systems, by everyone for the next 24 hours, no docking, no mining, no missions other than in anarchy systems.

If you kill someone and then continue to try kill others in authority systems the police should be almost instantaneous in appearance after interdiction, and there should be lots of them.

If you want to consensual PVP, that's cool, do it in an anarchy system. If you want to be billy the kid, that's fine too, just be prepared for the consequences. I mean after all , a pirate is a pirate and they are meant to be Wanted by everyone!

There currently is no punishment system in place that has any effect on PvP players decision on weather to engage you in an authority system or not, because the police are weak and the consequences are nil.

This mechanic might be exciting for the PvP crowd to plan and choose their points of attack, knowing they would have to retreat to their "Mexico" anarchy system afterwards to regroup and wait out the wanted timer, counting their bounty and stolen cargo.... Rather than just mindless killing.

 

[Martind Forlon]

Maybe it will make them add in a real crime and punishment system.

... yes, this is exactly that positive outcome which I had in mind (and is not related exclusively to Engineers ... )

 

[Cosmos]

I thought there were several interesting things that happened, forgive the list:

1) Their initial response was fun and amusement.

2) In spite of having alleged magic dev accounts, that fun rapidly deteriorated, particularly in the case of Adam, to upset.

3) Ed showed genuine surprise that the station security was so ineffective, as both Dav and Adam were repeatedly caned when trying to exit.

4) When Ed tried to make a point about this sort of behaviour, afte the Harry Potter incident, referring to players, support staff and devs: "Nohody likes this", a well known perpetrator immediately sent a message, visible onscreen: "Well 4 people have just combat logged so that's ruining the game too." A true Donald Trump moment.

5) Never since Blue Peter presenters tasting the flapjack on screen have so many teeth been so gritted in faux enthusiasm: "It was definitely fun" they said. Hoho.

I didn't catch the live stream but just had a quick look. LMAO [haha]

Faces did seem to sour a little but the devs seemed to have a laugh. Nevertheless, its a good experience for them. They should be thankful no one was using heat. Still, its better not to take these things seriously or to heart.

As if anyone from SDC will even agree to ANY rules in open.

I think thats pretty certain.

And who is going to police: the diamond frogs, lab rats, fuel rats, Hutton truckers?

They ain't really PVP groups, and the PvP groups won't want to be "Police"

Good luck with that one FD!

Yeah seems like the chickens are coming home to roost a little here. Several years of endless mudslinging and malignment of anyone who PvPs on the forum here means many a PvPer walked away long ago.

Instead making another thread could be used some from already existing for spit on Engineers , which are ofc not the real reason why they died so effectively . Real reason was lack of experience and use of big "costly" ships in environment (open) which needs experience and preparation if player want survive there (on public places ...). Next reason for fail was, that they openly announcement theirs future plans so attackers had it very easy ... real open player is able adjust his plans (while he still stay in open) using situational awareness and this simply was not possible in given stream. It was great experience imo (for FDEvs), but myself see benefits much different as is given in OP.

Well yeah, I dunno why Dav used a Python, its not a good combat or PvP ship. Experience is what the guys lack, understandable since you can't expect them to work on the game all day long and then use all their free time to play it. I dunno if they engineered their ships either.

That's not accurate at all.

People with ED 1.7 and no Horizons have no access to Engineers mods, so can never match their opponents, nobody knows the true player base split between horizons and non horizons owners other than FD so we don't know how big an impact Engineers is having in reality. Maybe huge, maybe small, but the imbalance is there.

In games such as WOW which is also a MMO like ED, players can avoid these imbalances by playing PVE servers or by not entering the higher lvl zones, in ED this is not an option.

Also, when you take part in a Community Goal, Everyone knows where it is, so the effect is basically the same as what happened to the devs in this live stream. basically everyone knows where your going to be, or at least a large portion of players.

So your excuse isn't really accurate saying it's not realistic, it was a realistic reflection on how a Community Goal can play out in open.

That's why many players do CGs in private and solo.

Well for ED there is solo/pg which sort of serves the same purpose of WoWs PvE/PvP servers. When it comes to CGs one of the problems is that people are finding themselves in unequal encounters. What I mean by that is most people play lone wolf, those who play as a group will always have a huge advantage. And lets be honest there are some people who do nothing but PvP, farm mats and roll until they have something spectacular, and hone their builds. I'd argue some have a better understand of the theory crafting than the developers, yet none of this information is easily accessible. That said if you don't have access to Engineers, you ain't gonna be competitive against those that do - but £20 for a season isn't exactly a lot to ask either. I rekon the grind to engineer your ship is the greater barrier.

If we had game mechanism where group play was facilitated by a the game more natively we could have situations where players could fly escort for traders but where is the incentive? A measily 10% trade bonus? Please.. And of course there is no way to organise within the game (i.e. chat, or other organisational constructs). I did warn about this sometime back when I said it will put those who don't organise outside the game will be at a disadvantage to those who do.

Also there is no bounty hunting eco system.. I could pursue the bad guys but someone needs to make it worth my while.

Reason I suggest this is that its a shame people feel they can't play in Open as a trader or explorer. I always do but then I never shyed away from getting stuck in and learning the ropes.

 

[Andovar]

I thought there were several interesting things that happened, forgive the list:

1) Their initial response was fun and amusement.

2) In spite of having alleged magic dev accounts, that fun rapidly deteriorated, particularly in the case of Adam, to upset.

3) Ed showed genuine surprise that the station security was so ineffective, as both Dav and Adam were repeatedly caned when trying to exit.

4) When Ed tried to make a point about this sort of behaviour, afte the Harry Potter incident, referring to players, support staff and devs: "Nohody likes this", a well known perpetrator immediately sent a message, visible onscreen: "Well 4 people have just combat logged so that's ruining the game too." A true Donald Trump moment.

5) Never since Blue Peter presenters tasting the flapjack on screen have so many teeth been so gritted in faux enthusiasm: "It was definitely fun" they said. Hoho.

Yup, it was this in a nutshell.

Crime & Punishment anyone??

 

[Soon(TM)]

In wow you can still interact with the entire player base without risking being killed if your on a PVE server. In ED you can't do that, you either play in open or play alone in solo, or play with a few in private.

It affects the social side of the game.

That's why hardly anyone talks to each other in open.

 

[ShadowWolf Kell]

In wow you can still interact with the entire player base without risking being killed if your on a PVE server. In ED you can't do that, you either play in open or play alone in solo, or play with a few in private.

It affects the social side of the game.

That's why hardly anyone talks to each other in open.

The social side of the game has already decided which way they want to play. You have those that want to kill or be killed so they play in Open. Those that get involved with a player community and do all sorts of cool stuff together cooperatively... they play in private groups. Some of which are pretty damned big. Then you've got the majority who play in solo because they like to talk a lot on the forums, but don't really want to interact with anyone else in the game.

One thing I've noticed is when I mode switch for missions, the mode that pops up frequently with UNABLE TO CONNECT is Solo. I've yet to have it happen in Open or in a Private Group. It's been going on for awhile now and I don't think it's just a coincidence. It makes perfect sense that solo has the lowest network priority. I'll actually have to play in solo and see if other times are slower as well (galaxy map, system map, jumping, etc.)

As for WoW, I dunno about that. Between the WQs that immediately flag you for going into the skirmish area, and the Underbelly and all the rampant whining over it, you'd think it's not safe on a PvE server now days. With the lack of flying mounts, world PvP's actually a thing again (which used to be pretty damned awesome back in the day.)

 

[DaveB]

...
3) Ed showed genuine surprise that the station security was so ineffective, as both Dav and Adam were repeatedly caned when trying to exit.

4) When Ed tried to make a point about this sort of behaviour, afte the Harry Potter incident, referring to players, support staff and devs: "Nohody likes this", a well known perpetrator immediately sent a message, visible onscreen: "Well 4 people have just combat logged so that's ruining the game too." A true Donald Trump moment...

It has been a while since they looked at the effectiveness of station security. In fact I don't think they've taken a serious look at it since the days of clowns sitting in the docking bay spamming dumbfires at the slot. Even if all that happens is for them to take another look at that it will be a good thing. The "durability" of a competently piloted combat build is significantly higher now than then, both from the standpoint of different build metas operating now and pilots having honed their skills making use of them. In a rational universe, spanking somebody in the NFZ should be an almost-guaranteed quick trip to the rebuy screen in the face of massed fire from the station and local cops. The only way to survive an aggro'd station should be to leave, quickly. In fact, that is how FD originally designed it and clearly intended it to work.

Of course, beefing up the station response to point that it will fry a dedicated combat build in seconds will make it massive overkill on any other build. The argument could be made that folks flying those other builds aren't going to be the ones indulging in NFZ ganking but there's lots of other ways to aggro a station and it would be unfortunate to have absolutely zero chance of getting out of range fast enough if you're not in a combat build. Therefore I'm not advocating a particular solution, just saying that if FD take a serious look at station security mechanics with the way gameplay, and specifically combat, have changed since they did so, that would be a good thing.

 

[Morkel]

Yup, it was this in a nutshell.

Crime & Punishment anyone??

And why was there no Crime and punishment system in this beta? Anything is better that what we have at the moment...