And then the entire event would be about the PVP encounter at the station not the team vs team at the CZ. And why is it bad that PVP'ers need to stay at the low sec areas? It would basically split the open area into easy PVP areas and tough PVP areas. I don't think that would be a bad idea to be honest. As things are right now, there is no where to hide for anyone in a non combat ship from pvp except for groups or solo, basically removing any content that requires open (like the events that lead to the crashed ship).
The ED Open Live Stream
- Thread starter Soon(TM)
- Start date
And then the entire event would be about the PVP encounter at the station not the team vs team at the CZ. And why is it bad that PVP'ers need to stay at the low sec areas? It would basically split the open area into easy PVP areas and tough PVP areas. I don't think that would be a bad idea to be honest. As things are right now, there is no where to hide for anyone in a non combat ship from pvp except for groups or solo, basically removing any content that requires open (like the events that lead to the crashed ship).
How about flying a ship that no real PvP combat pilot would lower themselves to blowing up
Recording your bright pink unarmed Hauler being blown up by a wing of Pew-Pew-PvP-Pro-Bro's certainly shows off their skill and daring and mastery of combat tactics and strategy. It also lets you fill lulzbuckets at a genuine display of pure scrubbage
I see an effective crime and punishment system as a necessary step to improve the game play in Open. In isolation though it would damper unscripted PVP. Currently CGs provide a focal point to make larger scale PVP happen. A very effective C & P system should therefore be accompanied by providing focal points for PVP in some form, i.e with low sec CGs and missions or CGs with a PVP component.
Do you really consider what you saw as ganking? I see them in wings. I see them getting beat 1v1. I see imbalance in many areas. But I do not see ganking or griefing for that matter. I see a realistic and not entertaining mess which can happen at any CG, starter system or at random times to unfortunate players. What I see is a straight forward illustration of the problems many players experience in the game today. Even one OP PK'er ship loaded with Engineering mods can create chaos like this to those that are ill equipped or less skilled.
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I wonder how a proper crime and punishment system would bring players to Open Play. Say I'll get destroyed by another player. I couldn't care less if System Authority brings in a Death Star which immediately annihilates my attacker. Chances are I'll never see this player again. What happens though is, I'll have to pay the insurance fee and then drop whatever I was doing and grind up my credit balance, so I can pay insurance in the future. Depending on the ship I fly, this can take a considerable amount of time.
Sure, a PvPer might face the same issues if a revamped crime and punishment system poses a serious threat, but while a PvP might enjoy blowing things up (and be blown up), it wont't help players who trade, explore, play cooperatively or just want to see the illusion of a living breathing galaxy by meeting other commanders along their journey.
Maybe it's just me never seeing an open PvP game working. (WoW PvP servers sounded great on paper, what a big mistake that was...)
Sure, a PvPer might face the same issues if a revamped crime and punishment system poses a serious threat, but while a PvP might enjoy blowing things up (and be blown up), it wont't help players who trade, explore, play cooperatively or just want to see the illusion of a living breathing galaxy by meeting other commanders along their journey.
Maybe it's just me never seeing an open PvP game working. (WoW PvP servers sounded great on paper, what a big mistake that was...)
How about flying a ship that no real PvP combat pilot would lower themselves to blowing up
Recording your bright pink unarmed Hauler being blown up by a wing of Pew-Pew-PvP-Pro-Bro's certainly shows off their skill and daring and mastery of combat tactics and strategy. It also lets you fill lulzbuckets at a genuine display of pure scrubbage
I doubt they would leave anyone alone..
But, I would rather turn it around and ask why these People that want meaningful pvp dont show up in ships where they are challenged by a tradeship. Like a the hauler you described. Why is that?
Idk. I thought the Devs were really good sports given the circumstances. Besides, devs slaughtering players would look bad no matter who they killed. Can you imagine people with the power of godmode shooting down players who earned their credits in game? No way Frontier would ever going to do such a thing. Not unless it was CQC and nothing was at stake.
Also, I think you could expand the notion of PVP justice "done right" to include motivating healthy PVP. And even community policing. Cat and mouse would be much more rewarding and compelling than a simple PVE police punishment.
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HP in a Clipper with 20% hull and no shields vs a full hull and shields FDL looks a bit god mode to me.
Considering he destroyed the FDL in like 20 seconds And finished it off by ramming it... With his 20% hull!
Engineers mods makes a huge difference, and with no crime and punishment system worth taking note of, it almost is God mode.
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Least we know now what Simon from "The Inbetweeners" went on to do after Uni...
Yup agreed cmdr Soon. "Their" way of playing the game in any way shape or form is on paper, if that. Once one recognizes that all the goofy NPC cheat coding and nerfs of just about everything related to players experiencing success then everything not only makes sense, you know whats to come in the next Nerf-date.
But who knows, maybe just maybe one of these live streams might trigger an awakening.
Seems unliklely, but we can always hope.
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There is a difference between grinding like crazy for 2 months to get godmode and having the power to type "enable godmode" into a account.
But even worse, suggesting that justice should be doled out by the devs in godmode is promoting authoritarian rule rather than the rule of law. That would undermine the whole concept of justice.
True justice should be created by the mechanics of the game, and not subject to the arbitrary and often error-prone winds of human nature.
I agree, god mode devs is not a good choice, and definitely won't be something they would do.
And ok, grinding for X amount of time to get the best stuff is acceptable, If you put the time in then thw rewards should be equal to the time spent.
But where that falls down is the lack of any consequences, having the best stuff shouldn't mean god mode, or "I win" , it can mean you'll probably be better than most other players in the game because you put the time in, which is fair, but it shouldn't mean you can just fly around mindlessly killing everyone and being a Scrooge just because you can!
With a working crime and punishment system a player can still be powerful against other players but should also have to make the decision "if I kill this guy, I'll have problems after, is it worth it"
At the moment. There's no system in place that makes those high lvl players even think it remotely.
"Oh, if I kill this guy I'll get a 10,000 credits bounty and I'll be wanted in only this system" SCARY!
NOT!
All they have to do is have the cops at high sec systems scan way more aggressively than they currently do. And then have them react to galactic bounties the same way they do to system bounties.
It's way too easy atm to sneak into high sec system stations and reload. Escaping a station scan in a high sec system should be HARD should require a crapton of speed and at least a full bank of heatsinks. Crashing into a station should also result in a large fine.
The stations in 2.2 can murder anyone in a few seconds, no matter how engineered they are. So failing to dodge a scan while carrying a galactic bounty would be a death sentence.
It's way too easy atm to sneak into high sec system stations and reload. Escaping a station scan in a high sec system should be HARD should require a crapton of speed and at least a full bank of heatsinks. Crashing into a station should also result in a large fine.
The stations in 2.2 can murder anyone in a few seconds, no matter how engineered they are. So failing to dodge a scan while carrying a galactic bounty would be a death sentence.
It would be more balanced if the star port deals enough damage to make you leave instead of instantly destroy your ship.
I think that the current damage level is a bit high since there should be some chance of escape (no matter how small), but at the same time I think the station has to have some teeth to do It's job.
My main worry here is that stations will end up killing relative innocents due to griefers who skirt the law and force bounties on other unskilled or new players who don't understand the law or the game mechanics.
The theory is, if you don't speed, they can't hurt you. The reality however might be different.
No worries, one more day and i guess we will know if someone comes to the forums to say they were not speeding, but someone did something that got them wanted at the station.
I hope that's true because you saw the live stream.
In 2.1 the stations clearly can't stop engineered ships, Adam and Lab Man were both getting owned right outside the docking port!
Hello Commanders!
Interesting debate.
A few points though:
* Anyone who thinks that Devs publicly announcing their location in game won't get ganked is wrong. We're aware of the giant targets that get painted on our heads (especially when we put them there), and no amount of karma or punishment will ever prevent our untimely and repeated demise.
* Whether it's a single vessel with top level Engineer upgrades, a wing of A rated FDLs or a couple of vipers versus a type 7, it's possible to massively stack the odds in one direction or another. Picking on one element is, to my mind, possibly making a less useful point.
* Starport defences clearly had a wobbly. We've upgraded them significantly for 2.2; we'll be keeping an eye on how they perform.
* Adam was not upset by being ganked, he was upset because Dav beat him, in part due to his greed that cost him a bunch of bonds! He can be quite the competitive one. And I'm sure that when I'm next on stream I'll get my backside served up on a silver platter many, many times (I'm nowhere near as good as Adam, especially on gamepad).
All this being true, that's not to say that we aren't looking at ways in which to improve player-to-player interactions, whether by some form of karma or rating system or whatever (I've discussed this a couple of times in these forums, I believe). I do think we can make improvements.
Interesting debate.
A few points though:
* Anyone who thinks that Devs publicly announcing their location in game won't get ganked is wrong. We're aware of the giant targets that get painted on our heads (especially when we put them there), and no amount of karma or punishment will ever prevent our untimely and repeated demise.
* Whether it's a single vessel with top level Engineer upgrades, a wing of A rated FDLs or a couple of vipers versus a type 7, it's possible to massively stack the odds in one direction or another. Picking on one element is, to my mind, possibly making a less useful point.
* Starport defences clearly had a wobbly. We've upgraded them significantly for 2.2; we'll be keeping an eye on how they perform.
* Adam was not upset by being ganked, he was upset because Dav beat him, in part due to his greed that cost him a bunch of bonds! He can be quite the competitive one. And I'm sure that when I'm next on stream I'll get my backside served up on a silver platter many, many times (I'm nowhere near as good as Adam, especially on gamepad).
All this being true, that's not to say that we aren't looking at ways in which to improve player-to-player interactions, whether by some form of karma or rating system or whatever (I've discussed this a couple of times in these forums, I believe). I do think we can make improvements.
I highly suggest next time the DEVs at least heavily engineer their defenses before trying this again. Might give them another 10 seconds or so.
Equip the stations with racks of rapid firing class 5 force shell cannons?
[video=youtube;bBO3mjktETQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBO3mjktETQ[/video]
In fact equip some stations with these anyway.
Would be nice to see weapon variation.