Of course Engineers are optional to use or not use. It is also optional to play in Open/PG or Solo. You can still play in Open without any engineer mods, but, it might not be recommended to do so. But since the game have three game modes, Engineers are, indeed, optional.
Engineers stifles the game.
- Thread starter avow555
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Of course Engineers are optional to use or not use. It is also optional to play in Open/PG or Solo. You can still play in Open without any engineer mods, but, it might not be recommended to do so. But since the game have three game modes, Engineers are, indeed, optional.
Its not about being into grinding or not, if you play in open you are forced to grind for enginer upgrades to even be able to defend yourself or being able to run away from the griefers....
All very true, but one thing we can probebly agree on is playing the game is optional. I have 143 games on my system about 50 or so i don't like does that mean there all bad games no. I really enjoy the engeneers the way it is which just proves not every game is for everybody. yes they could change engeneers but then i might not like it so were does this all get us.
Pilot skill also becomes a factor. The Human Equation is a huge variable here.
From a "pure numbers" standpoint, yes, a Fully Modded, A-rated Anaconda vs. a non-modded, A-rated Anaconda should, according to the numbers, win.
And if controlled by identical AI's committing no tactical errors, then this would be the case*.
This will never be the case.
Now take a day-0 pilot in the same A+ rated Anaconda, and put an experienced combat pilot in the plain A-rated Anaconda, and that seasoned pilot is going to mop space with the inexperienced pilot.
Provided the seasoned pilot commits no critical errors.
Do the same with unmatched AI's, and the more skilled AI is going to win consistently over the less skilled AI.
* Here's the real rub - committing no tactical errors, this would be the longest fight in history, as neither would ever afford the other to so much as take a shot, and the fight would end with both ships out of fuel, drifting powerless. Which would also make it the most boring fight in existence as well. We end up with an IF/IO Paradox - Irresistible Force vs. Immobile Object.
You enjoy grinding for engineer materials and then playing a slot machine with them to see if you'll actually get any benefit from your time?
The concept of sourcing hard to get materials for upgrades is sound. The idea of this being based on a game of roulette.. not so much. You're telling me the civilization's foremost expert on frameshift drives can't boost my drives every time? That doesn't even make sense in universe.
It's more complicated than that.
Some aspect of the game require to invest time in Engineers or you won't be able to enjoy your experience (aka Winning / reaching goals). The best example is "PVP".
IRL, to reach a destination, i can take my bike or buy a car and drive to it. Nobody forces me to buy a car, it's optionnal, but it will make my life much easier.
PvP is an endless meta-humping race towards goal-posts that keep moving. There will always be a meta, and those that adhere to the meta will usually stomp those who don't. Reminds me of Guild Wars... no subscription fee, so you weren't "forced" to buy each new expansion. But each new expansion included new skills and character classes, so if you wanted to be even somewhat competitive in the PvP scene, you better have the latest expansion and the skills unlocked. PvE didn't change, since you still had that content. It works the same here, basically.
As far as I know, there are still no engineer modded NPCs. People confuse "thermal attack" and "impulse attack" warnings for engineered mods on the NPCs, but it's just PAs and railguns. You do not need Engineers to do well in a RES site or a conflict zone, you do not need engineers to put together a great trade ship, you do not need engineers for a mining ship (at all), and you do not need engineers to put together an explorer ship. Therefore, engineers is not required for any PvE content.
To those saying "it should be removed entirely!", I suggest you get used to disappointment. Engineers isn't going anywhere.
As far as I know, there are still no engineer modded NPCs. People confuse "thermal attack" and "impulse attack" warnings for engineered mods on the NPCs, but it's just PAs and railguns. You do not need Engineers to do well in a RES site or a conflict zone, you do not need engineers to put together a great trade ship, you do not need engineers for a mining ship (at all), and you do not need engineers to put together an explorer ship. Therefore, engineers is not required for any PvE content.
To those saying "it should be removed entirely!", I suggest you get used to disappointment. Engineers isn't going anywhere.
You guys who habitually bang on the drum about the negative aspect of the "roulette wheel" are making a mountain out of a molehill. I've rarely re-rolled any mod that I fashioned for the purpose of applying to my ship, and my ship hits harder, jumps further, and is all around tankier than all but the most dedicated of resource gatherers; the notion that you're somehow wasting your time with the RNG nature of the roll is rubbish--a player can easily gather the materials needed to get to G5 in any category and quite realistically expect to get a massive boost in performance to his chosen module with one and only one roll.
I've got a news flash for all you folks who either haven't bothered learning the ropes or are soured on the concept and unwilling to be open minded in the slightest; of all the goalposts in the game, engineering your ship to G5 across the board without qualification is the easiest climb in the game. Period.
This is a key point. If NPC's do not have engineered mods than life can continue as normal in Solo. I am happy with that. I can continue to play the game my way without feeling that I must work for some wizardry on my ship.
Does anyone know if this is indeed how it is?
All I got from that was "I'm was wrong. But let me try and explain how I'm only a little bit wrong." /s/
I've already addressed your comment, which again you clearly didn't read. In which I said you are pressured to use the Engineers. That is absolutely true.
But I also said you are not forced to use the engineers. You may feel pressured to do something but that does not mean you have too. If this was the case everyone would use the Engineers. Not everyone does. Many people also successfully have fun, play the game, fight, or do any number of things without the Engineers. That is because it is optional.
Try reading what I say for once because you'd have realized I'm actually in agreement with you except for one thing, you think it's mandatory and I think people are only pressured to do it if they want too.
I only started playing around with rngineering weapons this morning before I left for the office. I think people's problem is with that awful roulette wheel. Such dissapoint, so often.
I had visited the Dweller once or twice, but only upgraded the Power Distributor on my as-yet-still-unnamed Keelback to be engine focused (and probably something else on Yellowjacket, idk) so I could boost more to run away. It didn't work, at all, but it was a valiant attempt. I think I'm going to play around with seeing how fast I can get that fat booty scooting... or I might see how far I can go with the armor tanking... Idk. I like the Keelback for some dumb reason. I think I'm going to end up putting on the shieldz healzy lazerz turretz if I ever get around to it.
I had around a hundred sulphur stocked up from planetary exploration and mining and was able to rank Tod up to level 3 (getting Selene's attention) by using like 40 of them to add some range to my Eagle's cannons. This netted me a thermal cascade cannon from the RNGineering, which I kept even though it wasn't past the 3500m threshold that I was going for. *close_enough.png* I went ahead and had him put some work into the other one (at least it has a range > 3500m) and burned the ranks to put on a dispersal field for kicks and grins.
I think I am going to hop over to the Dweller, swap the beam I'm using now as a shield-stripper to a rapid fire scramble spectrum pulse laser, do some drive, shield, powerplant, etc. modifications, and do some USS hunting. Seems fun. I think this is going to be quite an annoying little Eagle to fight against.
I don't expect to win against gank-specced Elites in Open any time soon, but I now have access to two private groups and there's always solo... and there's always winging up, which I haven't done yet.
I think what happens with this repeating thread-pattern is that an impatient child gets pwned by someone in a big nasty ship and thinks that the best answer to that is to whine incessantly about how life is unfair and how they should be able to get all of the toys right now, mommy!
I had visited the Dweller once or twice, but only upgraded the Power Distributor on my as-yet-still-unnamed Keelback to be engine focused (and probably something else on Yellowjacket, idk) so I could boost more to run away. It didn't work, at all, but it was a valiant attempt. I think I'm going to play around with seeing how fast I can get that fat booty scooting... or I might see how far I can go with the armor tanking... Idk. I like the Keelback for some dumb reason. I think I'm going to end up putting on the shieldz healzy lazerz turretz if I ever get around to it.
I had around a hundred sulphur stocked up from planetary exploration and mining and was able to rank Tod up to level 3 (getting Selene's attention) by using like 40 of them to add some range to my Eagle's cannons. This netted me a thermal cascade cannon from the RNGineering, which I kept even though it wasn't past the 3500m threshold that I was going for. *close_enough.png* I went ahead and had him put some work into the other one (at least it has a range > 3500m) and burned the ranks to put on a dispersal field for kicks and grins.
I think I am going to hop over to the Dweller, swap the beam I'm using now as a shield-stripper to a rapid fire scramble spectrum pulse laser, do some drive, shield, powerplant, etc. modifications, and do some USS hunting. Seems fun. I think this is going to be quite an annoying little Eagle to fight against.
I don't expect to win against gank-specced Elites in Open any time soon, but I now have access to two private groups and there's always solo... and there's always winging up, which I haven't done yet.
I think what happens with this repeating thread-pattern is that an impatient child gets pwned by someone in a big nasty ship and thinks that the best answer to that is to whine incessantly about how life is unfair and how they should be able to get all of the toys right now, mommy!
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Wow I swear as soon as one of these threads die another one pops up. Engineers are fine. I have never played a game (at least a good one) that does not have some sort of leveling system, top tier weopons, armour, whatever it may be. I suggest these people apply there logic to other games, go to lions arch in guild wars 2 and scream at the top of your lungs that everyone who is top level and has good gear needs to have there character wiped to make it fair for yourself, then distribute your gold to the new players cause it's not fair. Enough is enouph, what's next a anti- engineer sit in/protest. Un-engineered lives matter, this protest socialist culture makes me sick, you get what you earn, what you put into it. Not what is handed to you. The fact that this offends some people is bizarre... welcome to the real world, suck it up put in the work and get yourself some of what you are so envious of for yourself.
You are illogically conflating ideas. As a socialist, the problem is that massive amounts of public funds are being privatized into a small number of hands and those are the people who are wealthy. It's socialism for the capitalist cronies and slavery for the rest of us.
What's bizzare is that jumbled mess you wrote right there. Empirically wrong on many levels. It was a real eye roller.
Last word is that all engineered weapons and such are gone, but it wasnt specified if they have a modded PD for example. Its all pretty academic, you can kill high-ranking NPC in big ships just fine with a small ship whether they have modules noone notices or not. As said, thermal/impulse doesnt mean mods, its just that people now start to notice these regular things exist. Engineers is important for PvP, for PvE its totally optional.
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None of that makes any sense. Pro tip: dont start labeling things as 'socialist' if you dont know what it means. It reduces the chance people think you are a Trump supporter.
Your combat ship. How tedious it must be for you Smiling Cat Crew people to have to actually play the rest of the game, rather than just running around blowing other players ships up 100% of the time.
SDC in general are the ones who know best how engineers work because of their laser focus on combat ships. What's been made clear is that the grind pays off in such a way that it's not just an edge it gives in combat, but rather an unscalable wall. The trouble with engineers is that it becomes the entry price for anyone willing to engage in pvp. It's too high a price, meaning that's either your sole in game focus or you can do other things. This further widens the chasm between playstyles to the point where they are incompatible. Once your ship is modded to the bare minimum required to face other players in pvp, pve content loses all challenge. Right now my Conda can wipe out any NPC wing (don't care what it's composition) without my giving it much attention. Literally I can watch Netflix in a Combat Zone and I'll be fine. Against a single modded fdl pvp player I break about even.
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And before Engineers you were struggling against the AI in your pvp ship? I doubt it. PvP and PvE have never been balanced in ED, a PvE ship had never any chance in a PvP encounter and a PvP ship was always massively OP in PvE. What 2.1 changed is this: the people already on top of the hill had to climb some more.