Reducing distance costs by 50

[bendover]

This Game Does not reward me sufficiently for the amount of time/skill I have put into the Game I feel I'm entitled to more success in reaching my Goal criteria,I am unhappy because the game is not the way "I" think it should.

You wait for 20 mins,Well go and do something else Or are People just too lazy and stupid to figure it out for themselves

Instant transfer trivialise the space travel aspect of the Game,The kind of people who want instant transfer are the type of People who are only in interested in "beating the Game" and glorification of there own skill,Mostly PvPers I would imagine

 

[Arguendo]

How about we test things out for an extended period of time before changing them ?

You mean like letting a fundamental change sit for more than two days before a change is made to it?

Okay, so how about we make it a bit more concrete. Make your prediction: At which date will all these doomsaying come true, and please specify the exact nature of these disasters waiting to happen.

Eh...yesterday

 

[JosiahD]

none of these people ever provided any noteworthy argument against instant transfer. there were just whining for some reason still unknown to me. any statement from those people was like "I believe this will break the game, and my belief is strong!", nothing more.

They had successfully whined delays.

Now we see FD make changes to the transfer mechanics. And this means previously implemented mechanics were wrong. Thus your original post is also wrong. I hope they (FD) will do more changes in the same direction, and if they will - it will prove that you are wrong again.

Should I explain the above statements?

Poppycock - there were ample justified concerns about the likely impact instant transfers would have - just because you disagree with them might render them invalid in YOUR eyes but does not make them so.
.
Personally, I'm undecided on the 50% cut myself - have barely had any opportunity to try the ship or module transfer at all yet, so have no history to compare to. But I do know Frontier was always going to tweak things a bit. Have they gone too far? Is it just right? Not far enough? All I know is I don't know yet, but I am certainly hoping it is not the thin edge of the wedge in going back towards instant transfers given 70% of us voted against instant (which remains an inconvenient truth for instant transfer supporters that will seemingly continue to wail against......).

 

[jasonbarron]

Poppycock - there were ample justified concerns about the likely impact instant transfers would have - just because you disagree with them might render them invalid in YOUR eyes but does not make them so.
.
Personally, I'm undecided on the 50% cut myself - have barely had any opportunity to try the ship or module transfer at all yet, so have no history to compare to. But I do know Frontier was always going to tweak things a bit. Have they gone too far? Is it just right? Not far enough? All I know is I don't know yet, but I am certainly hoping it is not the thin edge of the wedge in going back towards instant transfers given 70% of us voted against instant (which remains an inconvenient truth for instant transfer supporters that will seemingly continue to wail against......).

Repped for using the word "poppycock."

 

[JerryLove]

You are encouraging taxis as the default transport mode now. Ergo encouraging people to sit around waiting for their ships, until they're bored and complain that ED = a waiting game.

That sounds terrible.

Oh! You know what would have prevented that? Instant transfers. Witch drives seem quite capable of one-hopping the galaxy.

 

[Ziljan]

none of these people ever provided any noteworthy argument against instant transfer.

There were six cogent arguments made against instant transfer, any one of which would break the game for some people. Let's just assume for sake of simplicity that the 70% fall evenly into each of these categories as their primary reason for voting for delays. If you divide 70% by 6 arguments you get 11.6%. If even two of these groups balk at the price or time delay details, then suddenly you are approaching something closer to 50/50. Without even being fully aware of it people start to alter their playing habits, and getting used to flying taxis. Then the slope is nice and buttered.

This thread isn't to predict the doom. It's to warn against mixing up priorities and focusing on the frosting and ignoring the cake.

 

[camper]

Poppycock - there were ample justified concerns about the likely impact instant transfers would have - just because you disagree with them might render them invalid in YOUR eyes but does not make them so.

brilliant! really - it is just BRILLIANT! "they said you are wrong. even if you say THEY are wrong - you are still wrong, because they have said more than you"

if you'd be little more attentive, you'd see that my sentence started with "none of these people ever provided any noteworthy argument". now you say "concerns". ok, agree, there were plenty of concerns (not arguments). like I said before in this thread: concerns of paranoid munchkins.

I need to say that I voted not for "instant ship transfer", I voted against those who came up with "concerns". Because I saw so much stupid explanations like "you had to do 40 jumps to Sothis, now you will be there in 10 jumps and just call your ship. Anyone will become billionaire in a week this way". What a crap, really...

 

[fu9ar]

This thread isn't to predict the doom. It's to warn against mixing up priorities and focusing on the frosting and ignoring the cake.

I prefer pizza.

 

[jasonbarron]

I prefer pizza.

Which is also considered a "pie" which is kind of related to cake. Or something like that

 

[Ziljan]

I prefer pizza.

Pie, cake, I guess it's all empty calories. So maybe a bad analogy?

Personally, I would prefer faster travel implemented as longer jump range and a viable galaxywide NS highway.

Taxi xfer station bureaucracy would be a nightmare solution to slow travel doldrums.

 

[Heavenly-Hammer]

Much love, Ziljan, but I can't ride with you on this one.

Just the other day I wanted to bring one - ONE - ship...my Python...from home base in Kamadenu to a base near Sol becuase there were some Articulation Motor missions that my Beluga was too big for.

The only difference between that day and today is that same move would have cost me half as much. $1.5 mill instead of $3 mill. I paid that $3 mill to take those missions. I wasn't looking to move my fleet of 20 ships around with me all the time. Nobody else will either. If someone could afford to spend that much to move a given ship around AND had the patience to wait for it to arrive, they were going to do it whether it cost the original amount or not. I do not share the concern that it will make people use the service more because TIME is the real gameplay barrier here; the cost was never more than a money sink. They could drop it another 50% as far as I'm concerned. TIME and urgency will always be the reason I do or do not use this service; not money.

So...thank you very much, FDev, for reducing these fees. I can use it when I need it and not feel like I just got a broom inserted into my butt.

Oh by the way, that $3 mill I spent on that move was largely wasted, as it took the ship 30 minutes to arrive and by the time it did and i swapped ships, the mission board had already refreshed. The articulation motor delivery mission was gone and I had nothing to show for it. So for me, not having a higher cost INSTANT option cost me the opportunity for emergent gameplay. Just as I always said it would. And that's disappointing to me, though I understand why we don't have it.

If there was a way to grab mission board missions without necessarily being in a ship capable of running those missions at that moment...well about 90% of my concerns are solved. Missions already come with like 24 hours to do them in most cases. If I could accept a medium platform mission that I see while in my Beluga, that would give me 24 hours to get to one of my other ships (transfer or otherwise) and do said mission(s) without the arbitrary constraint of needing to be in a ship that matches all the current requirements.

Examples:

1.) Delivery mission to an outpost but are in a large ship. I would like to be able to accept this mission in any ship, then get in the ship needed to complete the mission at my leisure.

2.) Cargo mission. Instead of checking to see if my ship currently has the needed capacity, allow me to accept the mission, but pick up the mission-critical goods at my leisure. This again allows me to accept missions I can do without needing to be in the ship to do them in right then.

I'd like that.

 

[WillFrog]

For big ships the price is still too high but on the other hand I just went to Alioth to buy an Orca. Switched back to the 'conda and picked up some cargo to take home.

Profit from trade: 400k.
Cost to transfer Orca home: 200k

By the time I had gathered the mats to upgrade the FSD it had arrived. I saved time and made a profit so it does have some uses. I'm feeling much more favourable toward ship transfer right now.

 

[Arguendo]

Just the other day I wanted to bring one - ONE - ship...my Python...from home base in Kamadenu to a base near Sol becuase there were some Articulation Motor missions that my Beluga was too big for.
<snipZ
The only difference between that day and today is that same move would have cost me half as much. $1.5 mill instead of $3 mill. I paid that $3 mill to take those missions.
Oh by the way, that $3 mill I spent on that move was largely wasted, as it took the ship 30 minutes to arrive and by the time it did and i swapped ships, the mission board had already refreshed. The articulation motor delivery mission was gone and I had nothing to show for it. So for me, not having a higher cost INSTANT option cost me the opportunity for emergent gameplay. Just as I always said it would. And that's disappointing to me, though I understand why we don't have it.

How was the mission board refresh rate any news to you? My mother and her best friend (well, maybe not her best friend, but you know what I mean) know that the board refreshes in about 10 minutes, and this happens even when you stay in the MB for over 10 minutes and then leave it. This is a poor example, as it is a well known mechanic and if you've played more than a week you should know this would happen. Your fault, not the game's fault.
Barring your "solutions" you would need the transfer time to be less than 10 minutes no matter where you are, which basically means it's "instant transfer", so why not go for that instead...hence Ziljan's worries.
Including your solutions; so let's all get fast taxis, skim system after system, grab missions you want and wait for your ship to arrive. Again, Ziljan's worries are applicable, as then people would complain about having to wait for the ship to arrive before being able to execute the mission. Slippery slope fallacy be damned!

For big ships the price is still too high but on the other hand I just went to Alioth to buy an Orca. Switched back to the 'conda and picked up some cargo to take home.

Profit from trade: 400k.
Cost to transfer Orca home: 200k

By the time I had gathered the mats to upgrade the FSD it had arrived. I saved time and made a profit so it does have some uses. I'm feeling much more favourable toward ship transfer right now.

I don't see anything in your post that explains why shipping for big ships are too expensive with the 50% reduction. Imho, you're not supposed to be able to summon your Orca/Cutter/Corvette/etc willy-nilly, because you chose to use an Anaconda/AspX/Hauler to get to the place you're at.
The prices were just find prior to the nerf imho, as they allowed people to transfer ships to a new home base once or twice, but didn't support people flying around in D-rated haulers and having their A-rated Cutter follow them for 2-pence. Which is the way it should be, again imo.
It's a big galaxy, and it's supposed to be!

 

[Spike K]

Being game 'rich' (almost to 4 Bil!), I have many ships to move and outfit.

I have been looking forward to ship transfer,
and except for some small errors in beta, and live; it has given me the freedom to act as 'Sky Marshal' in any area of the bubble I like.

No more dragging ships around to use them for 1 or 2 days.
No more disappointment at outfitters that an item I need isn't sold there. (please raise 60 limit to 80 next month)
No more grinding to outfit 10 ships with modded Fsds.. that eat power. I can swap out the FSD rolls that I like, OR swap the whole Asp for another.

The other day when I partook in the mad rush to find the Ancient 'things that are new' site, I used ship transfer to
allow me to continue exploring the area. I never would have before.

I used ship transfer to bring 'Planet/Poi search' builds to interesting places, as to remember why I put them there.

''What's this ship doing here? Oh ya.. it's going to look for Pois at that surface station.".. It's like a new type of marker that bookmarking doesn't do for me. Bookmarks are a mess.

As for the 'time lost' and 'waiting' .. that's all about perception and time management. Lots of stuff to do while you wait 20 min for yur ship or part to get there.
Jump in a buggy and check the port out. Buy a throwaway Winder and go look for USS's. Scroll around the Galmap looking for Brokers. (ME TOO!)
Before you know it, yur package will arrive, and you will be wondering why you never thought of doing 'nothing important' to kill time before!

\\///
Oo
>
--

 

[camper]

There were six cogent arguments made against instant transfer, any one of which would break the game for some people.

as I told above - no arguments with any real base under them. but ok, let's go further with your statements....

Let's just assume for sake of simplicity that the 70% fall evenly into each of these categories as their primary reason for voting for delays. If you divide 70% by 6 arguments you get 11.6%. If even two of these groups balk at the price or time delay details, then suddenly you are approaching something closer to 50/50. Without even being fully aware of it people start to alter their playing habits, and getting used to flying taxis. Then the slope is nice and buttered.

This thread isn't to predict the doom. It's to warn against mixing up priorities and focusing on the frosting and ignoring the cake.

70%, you say? of what people? those who hanging around this forum? how many voted? 1000? 3000? 5000?

I can't tell for sure, no link to this poll thread. Let's assume there were 5000.

According to this info there are around 500.000 players in Elite. If it's true, divide all your numbers by 100. Even your 70% will become 0.7%, because not everyone voted in this sad poll.

I think that most of those who voted for delayed transfer are the munchkins who wanted this game to be for them only, and newbies who know too little about this game to agree with the latter.

I may mistake, of course. Though this simple math shows that you guys are wrong. And that very same math being applied to those (six, you say?) "arguments" will show you were all wrong as well.

 

[Mohrgan]

as I told above - no arguments with any real base under them. but ok, let's go further with your statements....



70%, you say? of what people? those who hanging around this forum? how many voted? 1000? 3000? 5000?

I can't tell for sure, no link to this poll thread. Let's assume there were 5000.

According to this info there are around 500.000 players in Elite. If it's true, divide all your numbers by 100. Even your 70% will become 0.7%, because not everyone voted in this sad poll.

I think that most of those who voted for delayed transfer are the munchkins who wanted this game to be for them only, and newbies who know too little about this game to agree with the latter.

I may mistake, of course. Though this simple math shows that you guys are wrong. And that very same math being applied to those (six, you say?) "arguments" will show you were all wrong as well.

There was an FD sponsored poll, taken through their website and advertised via an e-mail from them. 40k players voted and there was a 70/30% split, in favor of adding a Delay to the ship transfer feature. That is where the numbers come from.

As a note, even 70% can make a mistake.

 

[rrobes]

When this whole ship transfer deal was proposed, it didn't seem to be an appealing idea. Right now I really don't have much use for it. My "fleet" is only three ships, only one is really complete, (multi role), the other two, (full combat and LR exploration) are works in progress.

Once they are set I imagine I could use the explorer as taxi to bring a full combat build a fair distance for a purpose. Even then I can't see myself using it much. I would wager that ship transfer is something that will be used by less than half of the player base on a regular basis.

If you don't like it, don't use it.

I was turned off by PP, so I stopped participating in that facet of the game. End of problem.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Sweet, now          on all sides are paraphrasing me why I voted a delayed transfer and telling me I'm wrong. But avoiding addressing those arguments in the meantime.

Right, why am I think the adjustments FD made make sense. I voted delay because it would be the cheaper option. New players who are looking go get settled find a system they like at some point but by then could have their fleet dispersed all over the bubble. Using a cheaper transfer they at least could resettle their fleet. Something I would have liked very much when I was in that situation. I had 2 other reasons, but it's clear that many arguing here have issues when needing to absorb a single argument, so I'll leave it at that one.

This is still perfectly valid as far as I can see. Now until I see a counter argument to that, anyone telling me I don't have an argument in favour of delayed, or in favour of a price reduction can Keep It Stupid Simpleton my furry little butt

 

[GraXXoR]

There was an FD sponsored poll, taken through their website and advertised via an e-mail from them. 40k players voted and there was a 70/30% split, in favor of adding a Delay to the ship transfer feature. That is where the numbers come from.

As a note, even 70% can make a mistake.

And to add to that, I ran an infamous exit poll (which some people asked to remove from the forum for "spoiler" reason) that garnered over 1000 votes and it matched frontier's official poll to within 1%

So it's quite ok to say that the online responses represent the wider user base in this case.

*argument bursts into flames and disappears in a puff of logic*

 

[Mohrgan]

And to add to that, I ran an infamous exit poll (which some people asked to remove from the forum for "spoiler" reason) that garnered over 1000 votes and it matched frontier's official poll to within 1%

So it's quite ok to say that the online responses represent the wider user base in this case.

*argument bursts into flames and disappears in a puff of logic*

A one time occurrence does not a match make. It has been more likely that Polls here don;t reflect reality, than they do. Just have a look at some of the Solo/PG/Open polls. Pure nonsense. The correlation you saw was just a simple coincidence.