Only to find out these have bugs too, and down time, and are a grind.
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There is no grind
- Thread starter digitalscream
- Start date
Only to find out these have bugs too, and down time, and are a grind.
Good post, rep to you. I have no problem with external tools such as inara and EDDB. Fits in well with my roleplaying concept. Pity they are not in game but thats ok. I had a brilliant and fulfilling 90 minutes last night just scanning ships and dropping in to USS sites. Picked up loads of dodgy data and a few materials, one passenger mission and a low reward fetch mission. There is now so much to do that i dont know where to start!
This is what I like about Elite so much, and you sum it up really well!
But I can see how it could grind some people's gears (haha I love puns). For me though I really enjoy this aspect of the game/
Honestly, I don't consider the use of third party tools a problem. I use them from time to time. Even then it's mostly for planning ahead rather then finding things in the moment. Most of the time I use what's given to me in game.
But good on you for setting short term goals designed help you reach longer term goals to avoid the grind. THAT'S how it's done.
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I'm still having trouble finding one that's compatible to my OS.
But good on you for setting short term goals designed help you reach longer term goals to avoid the grind. THAT'S how it's done.
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I'm still having trouble finding one that's compatible to my OS.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
Drop it with the rude comments. Married with job child and house here. Been playing ED since spring 2014 and am planning on playing over the next 5 years. Context is key here. No one woukd go into wow and expect to be a high level with all the gear in 20 hrs so why in elite?.
In fact i challenge you to pick any MMO which allows you to get at all the good stuff instantly.
I know people who have put more hrs in call of duty and battlefield than i have in elite.
Hell i know 1 person who has played over 20,000 games of uno online.
Some people play golf as a hobby. If i went down to my local green as a total noob, could i expect to have the skills to be good at golf in 20 hrs?
Last one then i am done...
I used to fish. 20 hrs woukd constitute 2 night fishing sessions taking into account baiting up and tying up my rigs etc
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grind is when you have to circle-run delivery missions in between two systems for 4 hours a day for 5 hours to get navy ranking so you can get the next level of ship. like what im doing.
but fishing is your activity in that example.
if what you were doing was grinding fishes in order to save money for being allowed to get the next rank of boat, things would have been different and you would feel different.
for some people 'putting in effort and time to reach an objective' is not entertainment. they call it grind.
and just because of that reason, the very wow you give as an example and many other prominent mmos are moving away from that grind.
whereas wow introduced so many boosts to xp gain via heirlooms which give boost up to ~110%-120% xp gain, and made xp gain possible via many easy venues ranging from auto grouping for random dungeons to battlegrounds, swtor relegated all their side quests to irrelevant status, and boosted up the xp gains in storyline quests to enable people to level up through solely storylines.
there is a move away from 'time requiring grind => reward' format in gaming. it was something when it was new 10 years ago, it has grown stale over a decade.
but fishing is your activity in that example.
if what you were doing was grinding fishes in order to save money for being allowed to get the next rank of boat, things would have been different and you would feel different.
for some people 'putting in effort and time to reach an objective' is not entertainment. they call it grind.
and just because of that reason, the very wow you give as an example and many other prominent mmos are moving away from that grind.
whereas wow introduced so many boosts to xp gain via heirlooms which give boost up to ~110%-120% xp gain, and made xp gain possible via many easy venues ranging from auto grouping for random dungeons to battlegrounds, swtor relegated all their side quests to irrelevant status, and boosted up the xp gains in storyline quests to enable people to level up through solely storylines.
there is a move away from 'time requiring grind => reward' format in gaming. it was something when it was new 10 years ago, it has grown stale over a decade.
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![BigBANGtheory [VR]](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/71/71385.jpg?1644873788){kind=avatar}
here is another example...
Unlock Didi Vartman (engineer) : Deliver 50 units of Lavian Brandy.
Ok so go to Lave system and buy 50 units of the rare Lavian Brandy commodity, simple right? Oh no you can't have more than 12 units of that rare commodity in your inventory and be able to buy more you must offload it. Only the game doesn't tell you this you have to sit there like a dumb pilock waiting for moar like Oliver Twist only it never comes. Then in frustration you head off back to Didi-da-da-dah (Wigfield by any other name) base to offload the rare and come back to find 12 more units for sale. So all you have to do is go A ---> B ---> A five times and the job is done. Grindy-Grind-McGrindFace no way at all to avoid that you cannot by chance be passing though and expect to make that delivery ever.
Unlock Didi Vartman (engineer) : Deliver 50 units of Lavian Brandy.
Ok so go to Lave system and buy 50 units of the rare Lavian Brandy commodity, simple right? Oh no you can't have more than 12 units of that rare commodity in your inventory and be able to buy more you must offload it. Only the game doesn't tell you this you have to sit there like a dumb pilock waiting for moar like Oliver Twist only it never comes. Then in frustration you head off back to Didi-da-da-dah (Wigfield by any other name) base to offload the rare and come back to find 12 more units for sale. So all you have to do is go A ---> B ---> A five times and the job is done. Grindy-Grind-McGrindFace no way at all to avoid that you cannot by chance be passing though and expect to make that delivery ever.
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I agree. We do the grind to ourselves. I do wish however there was a storyline or a quest line we can do to take my mind off grinding.
sorry can't stop to chat I've 4 more deliveries to grind, if anyone knows of how to get 50 units of the stuff so as not to grind pls advise else <something> off
can you not ask a friend to be a dropship while you go back and forward outside the station to do 5 runs to fill up with the rare item?? A second account comes in handy for this sort of thing i would suspect?
It only becomes a grind if you make it so!!
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Compelling argument.
I'll need to ponder on that for some time before I can give it the well thought out response it deserves.
Cool. Another thread aimed at getting people together to make the people that see the existing grind as a design philosophy and flaw feel stupid/crazy. We also need another use your imagination post, can you write up one of those too?
You know, we could co-exist if it wasn't always about labeling people into groups and being condescending about it. There is a grind and if you can avoid seeing it or feeling it, good for you, enjoy it, but I don't need people telling me that I'm delusional for having criticisms about the flow of the game.
You know, we could co-exist if it wasn't always about labeling people into groups and being condescending about it. There is a grind and if you can avoid seeing it or feeling it, good for you, enjoy it, but I don't need people telling me that I'm delusional for having criticisms about the flow of the game.
Yep, that's a clickbait title. However, bear with me here...
Until a couple of months ago, I was getting more and more frustrated with the game - it honestly felt like a grind (not to mention the heat effects which destroyed PvP), and it got to the point where I couldn't face playing any more...so I reset my save, came up with a backstory for my new CMDR, and set about getting his life back on track.
In two months, playing an average of slightly less than half an hour a day, I've gone from an Eagle (Imperial Bounty Hunter pack, courtesy of Kickstarter) to a fully-modded Vulture. Here's the thing - it didn't feel like a grind, and I was surprisingly surprised by that.
Now, I'll be the first to admit that a tooled-up, fished-out Vulture isn't quite such a lofty goal as a lot of you folk on here - there's always going to be a lot more legwork in getting a Cutter up to spec, for example. It is, however, the goal which gives me the best fun:time ratio in the game (YMMV).
It just seems to me that a lot of what people talk about as "the grind" can be avoided with intelligent use of the tools available - Inara, Coriolis.io, EDDB, this forum and the like. I set myself a goal, and I used those tools to focus my activities such that getting everything I needed (both money and resources) was reasonably simple. I know there are those of you out there who say we shouldn't need external tools and everything should be available in the game, but...seriously? You think there wouldn't be a galactic version of the Internet in 3302? Of course there would be, and people would talk rubbish, tell others where they found useful stuff, keep track of the markets and shout when they found a bargain just as much as they do in real life now. These tools are all part of the game, even though they weren't written by Frontier.
Sure, there have been irritations and annoyances (Exquisite Focus Crystals being the main one), but there are less in the game than there are in real life. Since I reset my save, I've concentrated on playing the game that's there instead of the game that I thought it should be, and I've been a lot happier because of it (my blood pressure thanked me too).
From that perspective, 2.2 is brilliant. I don't use fighters, and I don't ferry irritating passengers around, but everything else just seems to have made the game nicer to play. Even PvP has become a bit more interesting again, albeit not quite as much so as 2.0.
Anyway, that's my take on it. Chill, play the game that's in front of you, and be happy.
Of course, I know that ain't gonna happen, so I'm here in my flame-retardant suit waiting for the inevitable...
Well put! +1
Yep, that's a clickbait title. However, bear with me here...
Until a couple of months ago, I was getting more and more frustrated with the game - it honestly felt like a grind (not to mention the heat effects which destroyed PvP), and it got to the point where I couldn't face playing any more...so I reset my save, came up with a backstory for my new CMDR, and set about getting his life back on track.
In two months, playing an average of slightly less than half an hour a day, I've gone from an Eagle (Imperial Bounty Hunter pack, courtesy of Kickstarter) to a fully-modded Vulture. Here's the thing - it didn't feel like a grind, and I was surprisingly surprised by that.
Now, I'll be the first to admit that a tooled-up, fished-out Vulture isn't quite such a lofty goal as a lot of you folk on here - there's always going to be a lot more legwork in getting a Cutter up to spec, for example. It is, however, the goal which gives me the best fun:time ratio in the game (YMMV).
It just seems to me that a lot of what people talk about as "the grind" can be avoided with intelligent use of the tools available - Inara, Coriolis.io, EDDB, this forum and the like. I set myself a goal, and I used those tools to focus my activities such that getting everything I needed (both money and resources) was reasonably simple. I know there are those of you out there who say we shouldn't need external tools and everything should be available in the game, but...seriously? You think there wouldn't be a galactic version of the Internet in 3302? Of course there would be, and people would talk rubbish, tell others where they found useful stuff, keep track of the markets and shout when they found a bargain just as much as they do in real life now. These tools are all part of the game, even though they weren't written by Frontier.
Sure, there have been irritations and annoyances (Exquisite Focus Crystals being the main one), but there are less in the game than there are in real life. Since I reset my save, I've concentrated on playing the game that's there instead of the game that I thought it should be, and I've been a lot happier because of it (my blood pressure thanked me too).
From that perspective, 2.2 is brilliant. I don't use fighters, and I don't ferry irritating passengers around, but everything else just seems to have made the game nicer to play. Even PvP has become a bit more interesting again, albeit not quite as much so as 2.0.
Anyway, that's my take on it. Chill, play the game that's in front of you, and be happy.
Of course, I know that ain't gonna happen, so I'm here in my flame-retardant suit waiting for the inevitable...
I understand what you're saying and the game is better than its ever been. I'm really pleased to see it have improved so much this year but try raising your empire or fed rank to duke or rear admiral and tell me its not a grind
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digitalscream
Banned
I understand what you're saying and the game is better than its ever been. I'm really pleased to see it have improved so much this year but try raising your empire or fed rank to duke or rear admiral and tell me its not a grind
I did that with my previous CMDR, and yes - it felt like a grind. That's why I reset my save and resolved to play it a different way...the point being to find the fun again.
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Yep, that's a clickbait title. However, bear with me here...
Until a couple of months ago, I was getting more and more frustrated with the game - it honestly felt like a grind (not to mention the heat effects which destroyed PvP), and it got to the point where I couldn't face playing any more...so I reset my save, came up with a backstory for my new CMDR, and set about getting his life back on track.
In two months, playing an average of slightly less than half an hour a day, I've gone from an Eagle (Imperial Bounty Hunter pack, courtesy of Kickstarter) to a fully-modded Vulture. Here's the thing - it didn't feel like a grind, and I was surprisingly surprised by that.
Now, I'll be the first to admit that a tooled-up, fished-out Vulture isn't quite such a lofty goal as a lot of you folk on here - there's always going to be a lot more legwork in getting a Cutter up to spec, for example. It is, however, the goal which gives me the best fun:time ratio in the game (YMMV).
It just seems to me that a lot of what people talk about as "the grind" can be avoided with intelligent use of the tools available - Inara, Coriolis.io, EDDB, this forum and the like. I set myself a goal, and I used those tools to focus my activities such that getting everything I needed (both money and resources) was reasonably simple. I know there are those of you out there who say we shouldn't need external tools and everything should be available in the game, but...seriously? You think there wouldn't be a galactic version of the Internet in 3302? Of course there would be, and people would talk rubbish, tell others where they found useful stuff, keep track of the markets and shout when they found a bargain just as much as they do in real life now. These tools are all part of the game, even though they weren't written by Frontier.
Sure, there have been irritations and annoyances (Exquisite Focus Crystals being the main one), but there are less in the game than there are in real life. Since I reset my save, I've concentrated on playing the game that's there instead of the game that I thought it should be, and I've been a lot happier because of it (my blood pressure thanked me too).
From that perspective, 2.2 is brilliant. I don't use fighters, and I don't ferry irritating passengers around, but everything else just seems to have made the game nicer to play. Even PvP has become a bit more interesting again, albeit not quite as much so as 2.0.
Anyway, that's my take on it. Chill, play the game that's in front of you, and be happy.
Of course, I know that ain't gonna happen, so I'm here in my flame-retardant suit waiting for the inevitable...
It is regrettable, but the fact of the existence of this thread, and also many other says that it's like trying to convince himself and others: there is no grind)) the term "grind" is already so deeply absorbed in the gameplay that everyone is talking about it more and more. And yet if the subject is so popular , the answer is only one: there is grind)
Lemme see if I have this straight.... You got tired of grinding, so reset your save and using the knowledge you've gained from your first go RE: 3rd party resources, game mechanics etc. you've gotten to a Vulture in a reasonable amount of time and it didn't feel like a grind, so "there is no grind"?
Great that you've found the fun again and all, but I don't think the grind issue in this game is necessarily all about getting ships. Particularly a ship that costs 20M credits fully A-rated. It just seems that a lot of the content gets hidden behind a grind wall, some of which is unnecessarily time consuming. Engineers and the module storage for example. Powerplay is designed to be grindy. They even put a timer on it to make sure you get your grinding done to a schedule. Most CGs reward repetitive gameplay. It's basically a game of who can deliver the most McGuffins to X station before a certain date.
Sure, you don't need to grind, but that does not mean that there is no grind. You can avoid grind altogether in this game if you so wish, but you will also be avoiding a lot of the content if you do. I think a lot of the grind whine threads appear because it needn't be this way. If FD could accept that they rely a little too much on grind to make the hamster wheel go round and design the next lot of content with a bit more QoL in mind, then maybe there wouldn't be so many grind-whine threads.
Who am I kidding? This is a game forum. People will always complain about grind. ;-p
Great that you've found the fun again and all, but I don't think the grind issue in this game is necessarily all about getting ships. Particularly a ship that costs 20M credits fully A-rated. It just seems that a lot of the content gets hidden behind a grind wall, some of which is unnecessarily time consuming. Engineers and the module storage for example. Powerplay is designed to be grindy. They even put a timer on it to make sure you get your grinding done to a schedule. Most CGs reward repetitive gameplay. It's basically a game of who can deliver the most McGuffins to X station before a certain date.
Sure, you don't need to grind, but that does not mean that there is no grind. You can avoid grind altogether in this game if you so wish, but you will also be avoiding a lot of the content if you do. I think a lot of the grind whine threads appear because it needn't be this way. If FD could accept that they rely a little too much on grind to make the hamster wheel go round and design the next lot of content with a bit more QoL in mind, then maybe there wouldn't be so many grind-whine threads.
Who am I kidding? This is a game forum. People will always complain about grind. ;-p
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digitalscream
Banned
You misunderstand. I'm not trying to convince myself or others that there is no grind. I'm simply saying that I found it grindy, and by resetting my save - and, simultaneously - my approach to the game, I found ways to make previous grindy activities much less so.
Consider this: folk are always complaining about the grind and how un-fun it is. I, and others, have found a way to make the game much more fun and enjoyable.
End result: we're enjoying the game a lot more than the people who are complaining. Who's better off?
I honestly couldn't care less if other people are making themselves miserable by playing the game. I don't fully understand why they'd do it, especially when there are threads like this one which are essentially a quick-start guide to enjoying it more with a flick of the brain, but I guess that's a sign of the age we're in. This post is simply saying that I've found another way, I'm enjoying it a lot more, and my life is better for it (in terms of having something fun to do).
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