There is no grind

[digitalscream]

Depends how you define 'grind', the OP has their definition and that is not necessarily in accord with others but to claim it isn't present is burying your head in the sand tbh. My advice is to be aware that you can get caught into a 'grind trap' in the pursuit of goals and objectives and you are advised to spot and avoid that type of behaviour.

Say for example you want to unlock Prof Palin Engineer but can't face the prospect of doing a 10k LY journey and have no real interest in exploring what are your options:

1. Don't do it <-- miss out
2. Learn to love exploring <-- can't be forced on a player
3. Just tolerate it and get it done, maybe you'll like it maybe you won't <-- grind

OP isn't wrong but has over simplified the issue imho.

I think you missed the point I was trying to make.

It's not about whether there's lots of stuff to be done to get where you want to be. It's about the mindset; going in with the "   , I have to do this stuff I don't like" approach is always going to make the player unhappy. If they approached it from "OK, this guy wants me to do this...let's see if there's fun to be had along the way", they'd be much happier.

Be kind to yourself. Be happy.



I'm not saying anybody's wrong with their play style. I'm just saying that being happy and enjoying the game is as much a conscious choice as playing the game in the first place; it's just that a lot of people seem to get caught up in the complaining without realising that there is a choice.

 

[Forumate]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make.

It's not about whether there's lots of stuff to be done to get where you want to be. It's about the mindset; going in with the "   , I have to do this stuff I don't like" approach is always going to make the player unhappy. If they approached it from "OK, this guy wants me to do this...let's see if there's fun to be had along the way", they'd be much happier.

Be kind to yourself. Be happy.

Take responsibility for your own happiness. It's nobody else's job to make you happy.

 

[digitalscream]

I've repped OP even though I do disagree with him! Well written, and well argued.

However, the main reasons I disagree BigBANGtheorydude has just brilliantly said.

I'm sorry, but after being fried in my Asp on my FIRST DAY doing open by a 'wizardry' commander whilst minding my own business, any illusions about not having to grind in this game evaporated. You need things like Palin to be able to survive better. You need the dosh to do it. Else it becomes "Elite Rebuy". Yes, there is exploring. But little else available unless you fly a souped-up ship. And now even data delivery easy missions are nerfed (ok it's a 'bug'. we will see what happens)

But - unless you want to play a restricted game, then yes you do have to do the grind. It's a big grand grind. Thanks to really great people, there are third party utilities to help with this. Could this game be played well without the advice from people on the forum? No.

The engineers should have been fun. It should have been nice upgrades that were useful, but not necessary. Because some people whined and the AI was raised dramatically in combat abilities overnight, suddenly the grindfest became almost essential. Now that was a big screwup IMO. Before this happened, I never even considered the engineers, as the rebuy screen was fairly avoidable.

The aim of the game (if there is one) is becoming Elite. Do it without grind? Good luck to you.

And no I won't change the way I play the game, mmmkay?

Oh yeah, and Palin was a 'blast'. I did it. Both accounts. I got so sick of it the second time round, I exchanged platinum for MTs. Wimpy? Yes. But hey, everyone's got a limit.

I understand what you're saying, but what I'm trying to say is that Engineering doesn't have to be a grind at all. Need materials? Go and explore a planet - see what there is to be seen, and pick your materials up along the way. Need data? Stealth your way into a Medium+++ facility, see how quick you can get in and out....and so on. Yes, there are exceptions like the Modular Terminals requirements (I still object to those things being called "ubiquitous" in the description...). However...you can still make that fun. Pick a destination - like the Engineer you're doing it for - and stop at every station along the way to see what they're offering in terms of terminals. Bonus: you even get to see more of the galaxy instead of treating it the same way people look at the Tube in London.

Since the reset, I've spent more time doing Engineer runs than anything else - I got from Eagle to Vulture within a couple of days. What shocked me is that it's actually been fun, which it definitely wasn't first time round.

 

[Pyrotiger]

To be completely honest I came to realize over time that people complaining about grind are horribly missinformed.

Especialy before 2.2, you could reach bilions of credits, max ranks with fed / empire, in under a month if you were dedicated.

And don't get me started on engineers, last month I unlocked all engineers and upgraded 11 ships fully to max rank on all modules / weapons in just a bit over 3 weeks.

So less QQ more PEW PEW

To be completely honest I don't see how I can be misinformed as I did it!

Perhaps you play 16 hors a day. I don't know.

 

[CMDR Pugwash]

I understand what you're saying, but what I'm trying to say is that Engineering doesn't have to be a grind at all. Need materials? Go and explore a planet - see what there is to be seen, and pick your materials up along the way. Need data? Stealth your way into a Medium+++ facility, see how quick you can get in and out....and so on. Yes, there are exceptions like the Modular Terminals requirements (I still object to those things being called "ubiquitous" in the description...). However...you can still make that fun. Pick a destination - like the Engineer you're doing it for - and stop at every station along the way to see what they're offering in terms of terminals. Bonus: you even get to see more of the galaxy instead of treating it the same way people look at the Tube in London.

Since the reset, I've spent more time doing Engineer runs than anything else - I got from Eagle to Vulture within a couple of days. What shocked me is that it's actually been fun, which it definitely wasn't first time round.

I hear you, and am pleased you enjoyed it. Unfortunately I do not find it fun. My time is limited and I feel that I must obtain these upgrades to stay where I am, or was. That's why it feels like a grind. Because it is, in essence, compulsory.

I plan to head out into the black until they sort this out.

 

[Pyrotiger]

I understand what you're saying, but what I'm trying to say is that Engineering doesn't have to be a grind at all. Need materials? Go and explore a planet - see what there is to be seen, and pick your materials up along the way. Need data? Stealth your way into a Medium+++ facility, see how quick you can get in and out....and so on. Yes, there are exceptions like the Modular Terminals requirements (I still object to those things being called "ubiquitous" in the description...). However...you can still make that fun. Pick a destination - like the Engineer you're doing it for - and stop at every station along the way to see what they're offering in terms of terminals. Bonus: you even get to see more of the galaxy instead of treating it the same way people look at the Tube in London.

Since the reset, I've spent more time doing Engineer runs than anything else - I got from Eagle to Vulture within a couple of days. What shocked me is that it's actually been fun, which it definitely wasn't first time round.

It's more fun because you've used your experience to make it fun. However, I find it more fun flying a Fed Corvette equipped to the eyeballs. I'm having more fun with the game now I've done a lot of the grind.

I agree, you can take some of the grind away from it and be creative, make it more fun. The SRV IS fun, but not when that Polonium won't spawn (ironic - I've 13 of the buggers now).

However, the fact that you have to do that so much to a game - well, come on. A grind is a grind is a grind.

And it's nothing to do with 'positive thinking' and 'just be happy'. More "Emperor's New Clothes", at least to me.

 

[Hanni79]

that is unfortunate and if that is how it feels to you then you are not wrong.. the thing with all this, is it grind, is it gameplay, its all subjective with no right or wrong.

I am trying not to use that cheesy, maybe ED is just not for you line but..........................

ok, hows about this... did you play the 1st 3 games in the series, and if so, what did you do in those games which DIDN’T feel like a long dull grind? is there anything you did there which you could bring over to ED?.

What do you think of CQC? Personally I love it - when i can get in a game - infact the only thing keeping me off it is the main game!.

ED for me tho is all about the experience. without my VR hmd which adds so so much to the game i cant describe, i would probably play a lot less.

PS love that avatar.. is that a fish or a frog?

Infidel !!1! It's the mighty Desert Rain Frog, fear it's mighty fearsome warcry !
Do NOT play it with dogs around, I warned you !

Spoiler

[video=youtube;cBkWhkAZ9ds]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBkWhkAZ9ds[/video]

Also, never, ever, use that "not the game for you line" again, please. I made it an official offense on this Forum, as it is really toxic ( no bad feelings, though, I just think it's bad style, I'm a pretty high level Backer and have quite a lot of hours in this game, but now it feels too flat for me to want to get back into the pilot seat again)

From the "time played" perspective, I think I played Frontier the longest and I had lots of fun with the flight mechanics, doing slingshots around suns and planets and trying to evade the dumb AI trying to ram me to death
Obviously, this doesn't work in E: D sadly, though. Interdiction metagame was fun for some tens hours, driving around was fun for some hours, exploring and finding some awesome views was also fun for some time.
I absolutely detest trading, although it makes good money, mostly because it's so low tech I basically have to use pen & paper, I simply will never be able to forgive FD the lack of some well thought out ingame trade interface.

I also remember looking a lot at Frontiers Solar system interface, simply because I liked watching the orrery going round and round, tracking all the bodies paths, it was almost hypnotic to me.
It's also something I really, really miss.

All the procedural generated terrains on planets are nice and dandy, but I still think it needs the addition of an "awesome feature" generator. Something like Biomes in other games, which could translate to major landscape features. For example Meteor fields, stone Arches or overhang, maybe even some oversized cave systems. Since we now have volcanism, volcano fields or stuff like the pacific Ring of fire would be an obvious choice. This would make me want to search for it for at least 50-100 hours more.

 

[DaveB]

I think the whole point is that in ED you CAN grind but you don't HAVE to. There are some "things" be they system permits, access to certain ships, certain engineer mods etc, that yeah, if you decide you want them in a bit of a hurry you're going to either be grinding for them or doing something perilously close to it. But if you're not in that much of a hurry to get them, prepared to take your time fitting in progress towards achieving your shiny thing amongst all the other stuff you;re doing, it becomes less and less of a grind. In ED, to avoid "grinding" avoid "I want it NOW", because if you give in to the want, you WILL face the grind.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

@Hanni79

love the vid....
And no toxicity meant at all, nor any offence intended.

 

[barcode]

To me, the grind is something that just kind of happens during the course of regular gameplay. I go bounty hunting, exploring, trading, whatever because I enjoy doing that thing in and of itself, progress through the grind is something that just happens while I'm doing that.

 

[E4GLEyE]

As probably the slowest progressing CMDR out there I can say that the game is a Grind ... if you make it play like Grind... I am playing since the "premium Beta" and only about to leave the "dangerous" rank in combat, and only about to reach the rank with the feds to buy a corvette... but still short on money to do so... A Friend of mine stopped the game at the Engineers update because "it became a grind and chore" ... a day ago i upgraded 3 of my favorite ships with drives and some other stuff... this was my first higher grade engineering upgrade, and they turned out pretty good.... What i enjoy in elite is that it can make me land on a planet and "waste" hours on end and all i do is drive around and take screenshots... i love the world of it and the feel of it, its my "new" Skyrim ever since release That wont change because it takes me more than a year to reach the illusive "elite" title I am just a citizen, living in the world of Elite, in the year 3302

 

[JetsonRING]

Yep, that's a clickbait title. However, bear with me here...

Until a couple of months ago, I was getting more and more frustrated with the game - it honestly felt like a grind (not to mention the heat effects which destroyed PvP), and it got to the point where I couldn't face playing any more...so I reset my save, came up with a backstory for my new CMDR, and set about getting his life back on track.

In two months, playing an average of slightly less than half an hour a day, I've gone from an Eagle (Imperial Bounty Hunter pack, courtesy of Kickstarter) to a fully-modded Vulture. Here's the thing - it didn't feel like a grind, and I was surprisingly surprised by that.

Now, I'll be the first to admit that a tooled-up, fished-out Vulture isn't quite such a lofty goal as a lot of you folk on here - there's always going to be a lot more legwork in getting a Cutter up to spec, for example. It is, however, the goal which gives me the best fun:time ratio in the game (YMMV).

It just seems to me that a lot of what people talk about as "the grind" can be avoided with intelligent use of the tools available - Inara, Coriolis.io, EDDB, this forum and the like. I set myself a goal, and I used those tools to focus my activities such that getting everything I needed (both money and resources) was reasonably simple. I know there are those of you out there who say we shouldn't need external tools and everything should be available in the game, but...seriously? You think there wouldn't be a galactic version of the Internet in 3302? Of course there would be, and people would talk rubbish, tell others where they found useful stuff, keep track of the markets and shout when they found a bargain just as much as they do in real life now. These tools are all part of the game, even though they weren't written by Frontier.

Sure, there have been irritations and annoyances (Exquisite Focus Crystals being the main one), but there are less in the game than there are in real life. Since I reset my save, I've concentrated on playing the game that's there instead of the game that I thought it should be, and I've been a lot happier because of it (my blood pressure thanked me too).

From that perspective, 2.2 is brilliant. I don't use fighters, and I don't ferry irritating passengers around, but everything else just seems to have made the game nicer to play. Even PvP has become a bit more interesting again, albeit not quite as much so as 2.0.

Anyway, that's my take on it. Chill, play the game that's in front of you, and be happy.

Of course, I know that ain't gonna happen, so I'm here in my flame-retardant suit waiting for the inevitable...

But you're not a new player, are you? You have (experience) the manual, in your head. New players don't have that. That's the real grind, going back to school and learning how to grind. Once you know how to do it efficiently and are able to get past the "boring" aspects then it is simply mechanical, a part of the game. Some players too, have difficulty dealing with games that have no clearly defined final "win" scenario and so everything becomes a "grind".

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make.

It's not about whether there's lots of stuff to be done to get where you want to be. It's about the mindset; going in with the " , I have to do this stuff I don't like" approach is always going to make the player unhappy. If they approached it from "OK, this guy wants me to do this...let's see if there's fun to be had along the way", they'd be much happier.

Be kind to yourself. Be happy.



I'm not saying anybody's wrong with their play style. I'm just saying that being happy and enjoying the game is as much a conscious choice as playing the game in the first place; it's just that a lot of people seem to get caught up in the complaining without realising that there is a choice.

I don't think I have missed the point, you are just describing a grind avoidance method which basically boils down to not playing to serial objectives, keeping your short term ambition in check and work in things you enjoy. Makes sense but it doesn't unfortunately apply to all areas of ED especially so if you are not a patient player. Try getting yourself a Cutter with lvl5 engineered thrusters and tell me you feel the same way. Imho you need to tolerate a degree of grind for some things because it is enforced on you the game is padded with low skill time investment tasks. Just be aware of it I don't think it is possible to avoid altogether atm.

 

[[VR] Frank_G]

Took my time with the game myself. Took me 7 months to get a fully kitted Asp Explorer. I never grinded and i always make sure my sessions are fun. Otherwise i do something else.

After 20 months the game is still fun and i am really looking forward to play with all the new features and explore the new stuff.

 

[Apos]

There is no such thing as no grind. As long as a game has progression curves, that will exist.

However, the catch is whether someone can identify or set goals within those curves in order to acquire enjoyment out of the way there. Tunnel visioning is one way ticket to getting burned out.

 

[Howe]

I am just a citizen, living in the world of Elite, in the year 3302

This guy gets it.

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

In a game that you don't "complete", it really isn't.

Case in point. In this game, 20 hours is no time at all. The fact you think this is funny or stupid says a lot about your expectations. You're going to be frustrated and disappointed.

are you serious?

ED, like other long burners, like WOW or EVE 20hrs is nothing.

I was 25hrs before i got out of my sidewinder!!!

if you want to get to quad elite (not a goal for everyone) you will be measuring your time in the 1000s of hrs. I am 1000 hrs in since Sept 2014 and my highest rank is Dangerous. I could have grinded and be quad elite by now i guess.... but i do my best not to do that.

I've spend more than 1000 hours in Mount & Blade, Counter Strike, Jagged Alliance, Skyrim, Total War, The Witcher and Elite Dangerous. They also happen to be my favorite games. I've spend 0 hours in Call of Duty or your average Powerpuff Girls MMO though.

Context is important folks!!

The poster I was replying to was saying that folks had been indoctrinated playing games they spent 20 hours to complete. He wasn't talking about Elite. He was talking about the more mainstream console type games he mentioned were, "on rails", which I found funny because:

A) 20 hour mainstream games, like FPS games are the larger of the bunch
B) I don't care what you all say, 20 hours is a large amount of time to spend on a game.

Sorry, to you folks who either don't have a life or responsibilities outside of your gaming hobby, but to unironically say that spending 20 hours on a game is nothing really does suggest that ya'll need to find girlfriends.

 

[digitalscream]

Context is important folks!!

The poster I was replying to was saying that folks had been indoctrinated playing games they spent 20 hours to complete. He wasn't talking about Elite. He was talking about the more mainstream console type games he mentioned were, "on rails", which I found funny because:

A) 20 hour mainstream games, like FPS games are the larger of the bunch
B) I don't care what you all say, 20 hours is a large amount of time to spend on a game.

Sorry, to you folks who either don't have a life or responsibilities outside of your gaming hobby, but to unironically say that spending 20 hours on a game is nothing really does suggest that ya'll need to find girlfriends.

20 hours isn't a lot of time to spend playing a game even over two or three months. It's an hour every three or four days; I'm not entirely sure that even counts as a hobby

As for your little dig (aimed at me or otherwise)...I'm married, have a kid, have a more-than-full-time job (about 60 hours a week) and a band and I run the biggest guitar forum in Europe...yet I still manage to put in about 10-15 hours a month playing Elite without causing any problems at all.

 

[bendover]

20 hours in a game is it a long time or a short time That's a matter of perspective and your patience
I consider myself a patient person,But some may consider me impatient I would also consider some people on this forum impatient and self entirely.But this is also a matter of perspective

 

[Satsuma]

I'm totally with the OP here.

I've played since premium beta, and except for a couple of days when I ground rare trade routes in order to buy and fit a Cobra for exploration, I have not felt the game to be a grind at all. I like exploration, so for me the game is mainly about flying around and seeing things. My ranks in the Federation and Empire are basically nil - I'll admit I'd love a swoopy Imperial ship, but I'm happy enough with my Asp now.

There are those who say that there will always be a grind where there is progression, but I'd argue that that's only the case if you play a game solely to progress. And that's really a state of mind. I play Elite to explore, not to progress, thus I'm still not Elite in exploration yet I'm having fun and I don't feel like I'm grinding. If all I cared about was getting the priciest ship and triple Elite, I think I'd burn out and start hating the game.

Elite is an interesting game in that we as players have an impact in the game. I participated in the CG to bring materials for the outposts leading to Colonia. Now those outposts exist where they didn't a month ago. Even the presence of a colony in around Jaques station sprang out of player activities. In a sense that's progression, because things are being achieved through activities in the game, in another sense it's participating in a story. In the creation of something. And years from now when Elite has run its course, I'll still have the memories of having done that. The memories of the fun I had playing the game.

And that's really what it's all about, isn't it?