Inconsistent gameplay, arbitrary rules.

Oh yeah, I agree with you about the lack of consistency. They should be treated as smaller ships, hence obey the same rules.

My first post above was only the "official" explanation as to why we can't target them, and then the tactic I use to work around that.

Well, that tactic is basically what I'm doing, but it is really frustrating, so I built a specialized courier to take out bases, long range fixed pulses plus emissive munitions and all, so I could hit stuff with all pulses from far away and also target them.

The idea was good, and it took me all day to build it, so it kinda es me off that the arbitrary rules prevented me to work my way around something that would make sense otherwise.

Another tactic that probably would not work is to have an ally doing flybys around the base while a bigger ship can target the defenses, but thats another thing that would not work if the condition is actually getting hit.

I'm not against the game being tough, but it sucks when its made in a way in which it defies the game logic, so planning and preparation is out of the picture. Someone at frontier hates player agency.
 

Panticus

Banned
My SRV makes me feel motion sick, so I never use it.

>>I'm not against the game being tough, but it sucks when its made in a way in which it defies the game logic, so planning and preparation is out of the picture. Someone at frontier hates player agency.

No, they just don't care.
 
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I resorted to kill skimmers with a chaff equipped taipan.

4 pips to ENG, come in low and fast, as soon as the base defenses start firing at you, drop chaff. Empty the plasmas on one skimmer, boost boost boost, rinse repeat. It's not efficient but it works and it's more fun than going "world of tanks" mode with the SRV

But yeah, all those seemingly made up rules are dumb. Especially skimmers disabling your shields and thrusters if you ram them. How the hell does that make sense? Just give them the ability to dash out of the way
 
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The OP has a very good point really.

It is entirely inconistent, though I understand the developers were trying to allow themselves to balance this element of gameplay more easily.


The problem is, this actually removed gameplay.

There's little use in having a wingmate there giving air support to your SRV...

What would have been a better plan, is:

Allow SRVs to use a synthesis type from common elements that grants them emissive munitions that work against ground targets.

Then SRVs could paint targets so air support ships could take them down.

Its too difficult for Frontier to think of this, its too complex and it adds a new layer of gameplay. Its better to nerf things to keep things simple and boring.
 
Devs want me to go shoot things in an SRV instead of my ship, and betray the principle of "Blaze your own trail", the very rules of the game, and common sense.

WHY?

What do they gain?

I've been wondering about that too. They probably think that if a feature isn't good enough to be enjoyable by itself, they need to find ways to "encourage" (read: force) people to use it. Same reason they insisted on the CQC rank display in the main game, so at least the completionists will grind it.

I don't get motion sick in the SRV despite using VR, but I loathe shooting at things in it because I personally don't like using any form of auto-aim in any game. I didn't even know you could shoot skimmers using a ship, so after reading a dev-post you couldn't and aren't supposed to I avoided anything involving skimmers like the plague.
 
I've been wondering about that too. They probably think that if a feature isn't good enough to be enjoyable by itself, they need to find ways to "encourage" (read: force) people to use it. Same reason they insisted on the CQC rank display in the main game, so at least the completionists will grind it.

I don't get motion sick in the SRV despite using VR, but I loathe shooting at things in it because I personally don't like using any form of auto-aim in any game. I didn't even know you could shoot skimmers using a ship, so after reading a dev-post you couldn't and aren't supposed to I avoided anything involving skimmers like the plague.

You can still shoot skimmers, SRVs, generators, turrets,... Why wouldn't you be able? They weren't made invulnerable. You just can't target them.
Considering the fact that my weapons of choice for base attacks was fixed pulse laser and dumbfire missiles, nothing really changed for me. Just gimballed kids are whining.
 
No, they just don't care.

Quick! Someone call Braben and explain to him how he doesn't care about ED! :p


Oh man, what a terrible example. Someone complaining because they went into Mobius and deliberately broke group rules by killing CMDRs.

You couldn't, you know, have at least tried to find a less damning thread to support your supposition that FD don't care?
 
You couldn't, you know, have at least tried to find a less damning thread to support your supposition that FD don't care?

those posts you quoted didn't even come from the same poster, so your just assuming Iori said that they don't care.

and honestly, the quoted thread has a point.

I really don't like the "FD CAN DO NO WRONG" attitude. It just hurts this game over all, and makes it worse. It allows FD to just ignore everything and only listen to the fanboys, and lets them completely ignore legit Criticism because "It's Griefing". this allows FD to become Hello Games basicly. Criticism should be allowed, even if it doesn't paint FD in a positive light. granted, the OP of that thread morals are questionable, and the relevance to the thread is questionable, but its not terrible example just because they made FD look bad they and dared to tuch the care bear group. Look at it this way, do you really think FD should Disable lockdowns affecting CG's just because the small risk of greifers that they encourage to exisit? it isnt a small feat to make a lockdown.

same thing with this. Instead of accually having a logical solution, they just disable targeting. same thing. If you look at FD's history of Nerfing, you can see examples of indecisiveness and lack of consistency, which is a bad sign for a big corporation like Frontier Developments. Sane people start to question the competence of such devolpment team when this stuff happens.

we don't need another NMS
 
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Yes, but the point is, if it was heat signature, you should be able to target them when they fire, regardless if they hit you or not. Which means it is not following logical rules.

You have played other games before, right? So you do know the concept of basic rules and exception to those rules? Well, guess what this is... :) Just because what you want to do is barred by an exception rule, doesnt mean the devs 'betrayed' the rules. That is so incredibly daft I cant even imagine someone would type that out and mean it.
 
Quick! Someone call Braben and explain to him how he doesn't care about ED! :p



Oh man, what a terrible example. Someone complaining because they went into Mobius and deliberately broke group rules by killing CMDRs.

You couldn't, you know, have at least tried to find a less damning thread to support your supposition that FD don't care?

Well, I cant find the exact thread but it was a big one, it was about the CG blockade, the imperial legion decided to UA bomb the station to make services unavailable, and FDEV flipped the switch.

The other guy said FDEV don't care about player agency, I said FDEV HATES player agency.
 
those posts you quoted didn't even come from the same poster, so your just assuming Iori said that they don't care.

and honestly, the quoted thread has a point.

I really don't like the "FD CAN DO NO WRONG" attitude. It just hurts this game over all, and makes it worse. Criticism should be allowed, even if it doesn't paint FD in a positive light. granted, their morals are questionable, and the relevance to the thread is questionable, but its not terrible example just because they made FD look bad and dared to tuch the care bare group.

Ofcourse, you could try to consider the following: maybe because someone disagrees with some criticism, that person doesnt automatically think FD can do no wrong. You can just feel that specific criticism is absurd and illogical. You dont have to decide in advance if you're going to completely bash or completely praise something in all its aspects.

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Well, I cant find the exact thread but it was a big one, it was about the CG blockade, the imperial legion decided to UA bomb the station to make services unavailable, and FDEV flipped the switch.

The other guy said FDEV don't care about player agency, I said FDEV HATES player agency.

And you were wrong, as many people including devs explained to you. But sure, go ahead. FD HATES and BETRAYS. They are fascists in space, amirigt? :rolleyes:
 
You have played other games before, right? So you do know the concept of basic rules and exception to those rules? Well, guess what this is... :) Just because what you want to do is barred by an exception rule, doesnt mean the devs 'betrayed' the rules. That is so incredibly daft I cant even imagine someone would type that out and mean it.

I get it, its grind in the awful SRV or grind your wrists with fixed lasers for an hour.

Awesome gameplay I'm forced into, thank you frontier.

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And you were wrong, as many people including devs explained to you. But sure, go ahead. FD HATES and BETRAYS. They are fascists in space, amirigt? :rolleyes:

How am I wrong?
 
those posts you quoted didn't even come from the same poster, so your just assuming Iori said that they don't care.

and honestly, the quoted thread has a point.

I really don't like the "FD CAN DO NO WRONG" attitude. It just hurts this game over all, and makes it worse. Criticism should be allowed, even if it doesn't paint FD in a positive light. granted, their morals are questionable, and the relevance to the thread is questionable, but its not terrible example just because they made FD look bad and dared to tuch the care bare group.

I would honestly like to know what point that thread has, except "Some jerk broke the rules of a private group and was dealt with" Care to enlighten me?

And Frontier loves criticism and good ideas from the community. Go to the Beta 2.2 archives and read. How the 2.2 looked at the beginning, how people wanted to change things and new ones added, and how they were changed and added.
That's how it's done. Not by threads like this one.
 
Ofcourse, you could try to consider the following: maybe because someone disagrees with some criticism, that person doesnt automatically think FD can do no wrong..

Well, there is a stark difference in just disagreeing with some criticism, and disagreeing with all opposing criticism mindlessly. I didn't assume anything.

You can just feel that specific criticism is absurd and illogical. You don't have to decide in advance if you're going to completely bash or completely praise something in all its aspects.

What? when did I do that? bash what? I didn't bash FD in all of its aspects, I said if everyone is opposed to criticism that makes FD look bad that they will do whatever they want without consequence. I did not Bash something in all of its aspects. that is absurd. If i hated this game 100% and hated everything about it and FD, i wouldnt waste my time.

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I would honestly like to know what point that thread has, except "Some jerk broke the rules of a private group and was dealt with" Care to enlighten me?

Read the thread. They were using the BGS to blockade Cg's. they thought it was unfair that the developers undid their hard work. Blockading CG's isn't an unfair tactic don't you agree? i wouldn't dismiss their criticisms because they "Greifed" a private group. honestly, the entire player base shouldn't be punished and a feature removed because "Some jerk broke the rules of a private group"

And Frontier loves criticism and good ideas from the community. Go to the Beta 2.2 archives and read. How the 2.2 looked at the beginning, how people wanted to change things and new ones added, and how they were changed and added.
That's how it's done. Not by threads like this one.

No one said Frontier doesn't love criticism, in saying the community needs to allow more opposing criticism. FD is not the only problem here.

to be honest, Frontier need to do more than "love" critiscism. the "2.2" changes you talked about one in particualar i recall was about planet maps showing up in the system menu. they changed it to where you had to scan planets to see the maps. it had people bichering back in forth for each other to have their way.

What FD needs is consistency, and they need to not rely on their community so much to make desistions. they shouln't lisen to the "FD can do no wrong croud" and they sould take crisisim, but not as a bible, it should be taken as suggestions. they need to take feed back as feed back, and not as a MUST DO. since after all, this fourm is not the one making this game. Yes, i know it goes both ways, im not saying FD has to lisen to me. but, that doesnt mean i will be a HEATHERN if i said or somebody else says somthing bad about FD.
 
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You can still shoot skimmers, SRVs, generators, turrets,... Why wouldn't you be able? They weren't made invulnerable. You just can't target them.
Considering the fact that my weapons of choice for base attacks was fixed pulse laser and dumbfire missiles, nothing really changed for me. Just gimballed kids are whining.

Thanks for the heads up. As I said I've read a pre-horizons dev post saying something along the lines that they wanted players to use the SRV to fight stuff and that it would be close to impossible to shoot ground structures/skimmers using ship based weapons.

I then tried the SRV in beta, found out it comes with a gimballed turret and - assuming I'd have to use that for shooting things - never tried doing anything on planets ever since. Never read about planet-bound stuff after that either, so I really didn't know you could.
 
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