Any grind, is in your mind.

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

This philosophy is fine if you haven't chosen to establish in-game commitments, such as to a particular play style (eg apex PvP), or player group, or to defending a particular system, or aspects of the BGS, or all of those.

If you have made such commitments and the goal posts move (I'm talking about 2.1 RNGineering grind, here) you face a choice: spend months ascending a grind-wall that you wish didn't exist, or accept that everything you have worked towards will be harmed - perhaps even destroyed - if you do not.

The imposition of that choice (grind or become irrelevant) was so unpalatable to many of our most celebrated players that sadly, as stated in a recent thread in the RNGineering sub-forum, they left.

Outside PvP Engineers is optional. Always have been, always will be. Inside PvP it is no different than having me fighting in my Cobra against wing of Anacondas (one on one engagement seems to be uninteresting for so called PvP players mostly).

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Satisfaction with the status quo comes from the same place, you know. I'd say the fact that many players have repeatedly expressed dissatisfaciton since before 1.0 is indicative of something that needs polishing gameplay-wise. Beyond that, I'm not too bothered about the debate. The grass grows, the sun rises, the ages turn, and people tell each other that their views are wrong on the ED forums. [wacky]

Fact is only that there are many people loudly expressing their opinion on forums. Nothing more, nothing else. Only FD have means to gather and collate such player input as they listen to many sources as humanly possible. It is also to them to decide to how to react on this input.

 

[drzdeano]

I just spent around 10 hours to engineer my Anaconda, collecting surface rocks, covertly(not really) stealing data/firmware from surface bases, tracking down commodities from across the galaxy, running passengers and missions to collect my rewards, responding to USS distress calls.

In otherwords, I was enjoying lots of different parts of the game. But I had a day off and knew I what I was in for. I still have goals but they are on hold until the mods are completed.

Although I have to admit getting killed near the end of my rounds was incredibly annoying, loosing all those mission rewards, and having to recollect the market commodities. Sure, I could have approached each engineers individually, but I choose to do everything at once.


If I was "busy" (wingmates, spouses and pets are all valid reasons that no one cares about) and didn't have the time to allocate to engineering the ship, I can see how the engineers grind would annoy. If I wanted to quickly do something with my freinds that requires a different loadout and further engineering, this would get in the way.

But given the benefits I've now got, it was more than worth the time spent.

I think people don't appreciate the difficulty that fdev have tried to apply to engineering, sure it's "easy" but not something you can just rock up and purchase like a module.

I also noticed generally the first roll on ANY module will give a very good result, it's the next 20 rolls to try and get that extra 5-10% that turns it into a grind, engineer reputation is a bit grindy but easy enough.

 

[Shar]

95% of the complaints come from 1% of the base, the game is what it is so if you feel it's all grindy and you want to play anytime soon get grinding, I suppose those of us that have moved beyond this attitude are truly the lucky ones.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

I just spent around 10 hours to engineer my Anaconda, collecting surface rocks, covertly(not really) stealing data/firmware from surface bases, tracking down commodities from across the galaxy, running passengers and missions to collect my rewards, responding to USS distress calls.

In otherwords, I was enjoying lots of different parts of the game. But I had a day off and knew I what I was in for. I still have goals but they are on hold until the mods are completed.

Although I have to admit getting killed near the end of my rounds was incredibly annoying, loosing all those mission rewards, and having to recollect the market commodities. Sure, I could have approached each engineers individually, but I choose to do everything at once.


If I was "busy" (wingmates, spouses and pets are all valid reasons that no one cares about) and didn't have the time to allocate to engineering the ship, I can see how the engineers grind would annoy. If I wanted to quickly do something with my freinds that requires a different loadout and further engineering, this would get in the way.

But given the benefits I've now got, it was more than worth the time spent.

I think people don't appreciate the difficulty that fdev have tried to apply to engineering, sure it's "easy" but not something you can just rock up and purchase like a module.

I also noticed generally the first roll on ANY module will give a very good result, it's the next 20 rolls to try and get that extra 5-10% that turns it into a grind, engineer reputation is a bit grindy but easy enough.

Or they don't want the difficulty at all.

 

[Truesilver]

Outside PvP Engineers is optional. Always have been, always will be.

Only in part. It depends on what you mean by 'PvP'. If you mean direct combat only, I would disagree.

There are several player groups who defend a home system in Open mode, both in terms of PvP and BGS defence/promotion. Even their PvE guys are going to need to mod up to a large extent, partly for self-defence against direct attack but also so as to remain competitive against antagonists.

If, for example, you are involved in a BGS conflict it's quite likely that you and your enemies are going to want to kill large numbers of each others' authority ships. That is going to be twice as easy to do if modded. In fact that would be true even outside of Open mode.

The same of course applies if the system(s) in question go in to War / Civil War - a modded group will tear through CZ's far faster than an unmodded one ever could.

So 'PvP' can mean more than 'direct PvP fighting' - player v player competition I suppose, we could agree upon.

My point as made earlier is that if you have those sorts of commitments, the grind isn't optional and isn't necessarily at all desired - it's a real grind.

 

[raeat]

I admit, I have done my share of "campaigns force-fed down your throat" online games, and they are fun as throwaway, "beat 'em & next" games, but honestly, I am happy to have a game where I can create and direct my own character's story. Invest in a system, or a faction, or even a Power or Superpower. Make it yours and defend it vigorously against all comers in every way you know how.

It only becomes a grind if you make it one - if your imagination cannot see anything other than the "next step to beating the game."

 

[Martian Successor]

95% of the complaints come from 1% of the base.

Cool assumption. Where did you get those numbers from?

the game is what it is so if you feel it's all grindy and you want to play anytime soon get grinding, I suppose those of us that have moved beyond this attitude are truly the lucky ones.

I don't think you've read some of the key posts in this thread. Why do you seem to be so defensive and have such contempt for people that simply disagree with your opinion on this subject? There is no "right way" and "wrong way" to play. I'm struggling to understand the people that insist that they are somehow superrior because they are somehow playing the 'correct' way and anyone that disagrees with them is obvoiously dead wrong.

 

[drzdeano]

Because those people are not showing much common sense (in the eyes of the critic) by playing a game, for enjoyment, but they arnt having fun, yet they still keep playing.

Elite is a sandbox game, you can continually punch yourself in the face, for a long time, and yet still not make any progress.

And then blame the developers for allowing you to punch yourself in the face.

Some people enjoy pain, others are scared of it...just like work/effort.

 

[Shar]

Cool assumption. Where did you get those numbers from?


I don't think you've read some of the key posts in this thread. Why do you seem to be so defensive and have such contempt for people that simply disagree with your opinion on this subject? There is no "right way" and "wrong way" to play. I'm struggling to understand the people that insist that they are somehow superrior because they are somehow playing the 'correct' way and anyone that disagrees with them is obvoiously dead wrong.

You're words not mine, play anyway you like. But yes i do feel lucky that i don't find the game a "grind" I play tyhe right way for me, you're way is the wrong way for me. I pleased to see so many players in this thread that enjoy it the way it is, as for those that don't there the same group that bag the game in every thread so no surprises there. as for you're perseption of absolute wrong or right i have no opinion. and it's not up to me or you it's down to the developer who have made there direction clear.

It is what it is you can dream about it bieng something else but thats probebly a different game. The only choice we have is play or not.

Enjoy or don't enjoy but i'm off for a meeting bye..

 

[Martian Successor]

Because those people are not showing much common sense (in the eyes of the critic) by playing a game, for enjoyment, but they arnt having fun, yet they still keep playing.

Elite is a sandbox game, you can continually punch yourself in the face, for a long time, and yet still not make any progress.

And then blame the developers for allowing you to punch yourself in the face.

Some people enjoy pain, others are scared of it...just like work/effort.

Fair enough but there's been plenty of well reasoned responses that clearly show people who like ED and simply want to see it improve in the areas where it falls flat.

The game won't ever improve if the status quo is never challenged.

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You're words not mine, play anyway you like. But yes i do feel lucky that i don't find the game a "grind" I play tyhe right way for me, you're way is the wrong way for me. I pleased to see so many players in this thread that enjoy it the way it is, as for those that don't there the same group that bag the game in every thread so no surprises there. as for you're perseption of absolute wrong or right i have no opinion. and it's not up to me or you it's down to the developer who have made there direction clear.

It is what it is you can dream about it bieng something else but thats probebly a different game. The only choice we have is play or not.

Enjoy or don't enjoy but i'm off for a meeting bye..

Bye. Have a nice meeting.

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I'm curious, has the OP actually come back to post again or was this just a drive by thread drop for them?

 

[Bit.Slade]

I'm not quite understanding all of the "But you do it to yourself, re: grind" arguments.

People are not doing it to themselves. FDev's design is poorly implemented and they've proven that they're in favor of the grind and the time sink over and over again with the nerfing of various high paying mission loops. Look at where we are right now. Whatever algorithm they use to define mission payouts obviously thinks hauling a couple hundred metric tons of poop across 400ly of open space should pay well, but it paid too well according to the forum and they can't just nerf that site because every mission in the game is generated from the same key source.. so they nerf the source and now we're back to 10k payouts on 200 ton missions within the bubble.

Does anyone else remember when the cost of rearming and refueling made bounty hunting with anything other than lasers incredibly cost prohibitive? C'mon now, kill a wanted 'Dangerous' Anaconda and you get 3500 credits, but the 800 rounds of MC ammo you used up costs 5k to replace and that scratch on your hull? Yeah, gonna need you to sign over your first born child as a down payment.

Saying that people who complain about the grind are forcing it on themselves is ridiculous. Frontier has proven almost a dozen times that they aren't particularly skilled when it comes to balancing out the gameplay elements of Elite. So rather than actually take a whack at fixing things for the better, they throw a massive bandaid over the problem and let it be. I'm sure it will get fixed eventually but they've also got to keep producing new content if they want to maintain a decent playerbase so it will likely be a back burner item for quite awhile.

It's not surprising though and aside from this post you will rarely ever see me say anything about it because they're not a AAA producer of video games and lack the experience of the larger companies who have been doing this for over a decade (This being massive multiplayer environments, or attempts at such). I don't hold them at fault above all others because this is like a freshman entry into the world of online gaming for them, at least from my humble perspective. What they've provided so far is gorgeous.. Now they just need to finish it up and add some of that needed depth to their "living" galaxy.

Further proof that Deadspin is one of the smartest people in this thread.

 

[jasonbarron]

A grind is simply an "approach" to an activity, not the activity itself. At worst the goalposts in ED are set way down the field, but it's not the game's fault that players choose to "grind" to those goals.

Say you want to be Elite in any rank; we all know that it takes a lot of scanning objects, or hauling objects, or killing objects to achieve the sought after rank, but is it the game's fault that the player chose to pursue that goal to the exclusion of other activities? No, of course not. The player is always free to mix up their activities to avoid the feeling of grind.

The bottom line is that the people who say that the game is a grind are essentially saying that they don't like the activities contained within the framework of the game, and that the goalposts should be moved much closer to their end of the field. Sorry guys, but just because you wish the "finish line" was closer to the starting line doesn't make it a grind. Some people think that's a good idea, some don't. Personally I love how big ED is, and how large a time investment is required for the top tier ranks and various ship objectives. Ditto for engineering top modules.

My advice is to sample the full range of what the game has to offer instead of just getting stuck in one activity that seems to move at a glacial pace, such as ranking up to buy a Cutter, or just doing PvE combat, etc. Try something new, you might be pleasantly surprised.

 

[fu9ar]

Nah, I think I am going to ignore most of the options in the game because they are all a priori "boring", go to the forums and reddit to find out what the new top meta for maximum cr/hour is this patch, because that's what I did in WoW until I maxed out and "got access" to all of the "content." Then I'll do that to the exclusion of all other activities and then complain that this game is a googleplex wide and a monad deep after I spent the past six weeks bouncing back and forth between two systems with an auto docking computer. And then, I'll get mad when an SDC ganker "takes days of progress" because I'm flying an Anaconda without gitting gud first. Of course, this is all FDev's fault, and none of my choices caused any of this.

 

[Cmdr Cheese Wedge]

Just spent 10 hours to find a single field of geysers.
Some might call that a grind.
I call it relaxing.

Although an active geology surface scanner would be nice.

 

[TheCyanDragon]

I can definitely say the 'grind' is all in your head.

This game is all about finding a happy medium between fun, and progress. Even if your progression goal is nothing more than the most badass Sidewinder the Milky Way has ever seen, the point is to never stop having fun.

It's why I've made nearly a billion credits from exploration, and yet, I'm still flying a Keelback to Colonia. Is it the best? Not by a long shot. Is it practical? No, not at all. But damnit, I'm having fun.

I've been having fun with the game from day one, and it's never truly boring once you figure out how. Elite has always been a game where you are free to say 'Can I do X?' and actually try it, no matter how ludicrous or insane it sounds. I mean,     , there's a guy who's flying a nearly-stock Cobra Mk. III around the arms of the galaxy, and has been for almost TWO YEARS now.

The players, and community at large, would be a lot more entertaining if we all just took a step back, let out our inner mad-scientist, and just experimented a little. You'd be surprised how much fun it is trying wacky, crazy things, and before you know it... you'll have made whatever goal you set out when you first played the game after installing.

 

[Itaki]

I've been having fun with the game from day one, and it's never truly boring once you figure out how.

The same goes for tic-tac-toe. You just need to figure out how to do it and you'll never be bored.

 

[Cmdr Cheese Wedge]

A grind is simply an "approach" to an activity, not the activity itself. At worst the goalposts in ED are set way down the field, but it's not the game's fault that players choose to "grind" to those goals.

Say you want to be Elite in any rank; we all know that it takes a lot of scanning objects, or hauling objects, or killing objects to achieve the sought after rank, but is it the game's fault that the player chose to pursue that goal to the exclusion of other activities? No, of course not. The player is always free to mix up their activities to avoid the feeling of grind.

The bottom line is that the people who say that the game is a grind are essentially saying that they don't like the activities contained within the framework of the game, and that the goalposts should be moved much closer to their end of the field. Sorry guys, but just because you wish the "finish line" was closer to the starting line doesn't make it a grind. Some people think that's a good idea, some don't. Personally I love how big ED is, and how large a time investment is required for the top tier ranks and various ship objectives. Ditto for engineering top modules.

My advice is to sample the full range of what the game has to offer instead of just getting stuck in one activity that seems to move at a glacial pace, such as ranking up to buy a Cutter, or just doing PvE combat, etc. Try something new, you might be pleasantly surprised.

I've the distinct impression modern gamers don't know how to multitask.

 

[CmdMarty]

I wouldn't call it a grind but this games does have a lot of things that are not worth the time spent vs reward imo!

 

[Martian Successor]

The bottom line is that the people who say that the game is a grind are essentially saying that they don't like the activities contained within the framework of the game, and that the goalposts should be moved much closer to their end of the field. Sorry guys, but just because you wish the "finish line" was closer to the starting line doesn't make it a grind. Some people think that's a good idea, some don't. Personally I love how big ED is, and how large a time investment is required for the top tier ranks and various ship objectives. Ditto for engineering top modules.

My advice is to sample the full range of what the game has to offer instead of just getting stuck in one activity that seems to move at a glacial pace, such as ranking up to buy a Cutter, or just doing PvE combat, etc. Try something new, you might be pleasantly surprised.

I disagree Jason. You are using an absolute - a 'my way or the high way' argument and with all due respect that is not the bottom line. Mostly because there can never be such a thing as a bottom line on something that is subjective and depends on each person's opinion and feeling.

When some people say some activities are a grind, they're not lying. They don't necesarily want goal posts moved. They're not wearing tinfoil hats. They're not witches to be burned at the stake. They're simply telling you a truth that exists in this game.

I for example do not wish "the finish line is closer" I simply want more activities that are polished and refined as apposed to a naked skeleton that offers nothing but a barren, lifeless repetition of the same 'tasks' with obsolutely no attempt at variation, flavour or challenge. Not every activity in ED is like that but over more than half are. I simply want to see the game improve and if that means I'm going to be shat on by other people, well then that         sucks but so be it. I'll continue to play my way and look for opportunities to help make the game better.

 

[Headless Sheep]

Ed is a grind fest. Don't think so? Your in denial.