Any grind, is in your mind.

[AutoMechancal]

Mod hat on..

I know hyperbole is all the rage these days, but let's not be disrespectful. People can have different opinions and that's fine.

I'm getting told about hyperbole? Maybe the mod hat should stay off, permanently.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

You were saying?, what world are you living in if you think 'grind is in the mind' is insulting but it's okay to go on and say that?

Hey I call them how I see them, if you can't handle it then like he said about the grind that's your problem.

 

[Truesilver]

The problem with ED grind imo can be expressed by a Final Fantasy analogy.

In the very earliest days of that uber-popular JRPG series, experience and cash were earned by performing the same monster-bashing tasks over and over and over again.

In the super-evolved, modern incarnation of Final Fantasy, the 'Bravely Default' handheld series, all 'grind' tasks can be speeded up (literally, they can be put on fast forward), and semi- or entirely automated. You can actually gain stuff while you sleep. You can set up your entire party to be a smoothly oiled xp gathering machine.

Now, here's the interesting part:- I have played every major off-line release in the Final Fantasy series and I have put a stack more time into Bravely Default, without ever getting bored, than the early releases. Probably about 300 hours to 40 hours.

How?

Because Bravely Default provides depth in the variety of its tactics, the need to acquire tools to fight innumerable bosses, themselves possessing tactics of great depth, you have a need not just to gain but to learn.

Basically Bravely Default trivialises the trivial and makes much of the interesting. You rarely if ever have to do something you don't want to do to get something you want - you do something you do want to do to get something you want.

Elite Dangerous is, on this analogy, still on the Super Nintendo. The trivial makes up almost all of the PvE content, repetitively and without any need to improve or reward for doing so.

I don't think this concern is 'in the mind' at all - it's a direct comparison. Elite needs to move forwards several decades before its core game mechanics of rank and property acquisition are more than, in effect, killing / transporting / dropping in on / driving past the same goblin over and over and over again.

However, prior to 2.1 I still found all of this to be ok. I could forgive the game its archaic quality, partly because I'm a 1984-er. I thought the eight months it took me to get from purchase to endgame was about right.

What I personally am still struggling to reconcile myself to is 2.1.

 

[Jenner]

I'm getting told about hyperbole? Maybe the mod hat should stay off, permanently.

I will say that OP has a very good point about how Elite is more about the journey than the destination. That's a great way to explain the lasting appeal that it has for myself and many players. Yes, I agree with Cosmos' observations about grind, but despite that Elite is a game I keep coming back to again and again. It's the journey, the beauty, the mechanics that keep me engaged. It's a universe I want to spend time in. In that, at least, Elite succeeds spectacularly well.

 

[Theodrid]

IHey I call them how I see them, if you can't handle it then like he said about the grind that's your problem.

Nah my only 'problem' is the ridiculous hypocrisy of you being offended by 'grind is in your mind' and then thinking it's okay to suggest that poster was either an idiot or unemployed.

 

[Cageman]

Regarding the grind debate... here is my story...

When Engineers were introduced, was the first time where I actually felt a negative effect of "Grinding". The reason for it, was because I was chasing after it. I realized it, and told myself to not touch the Engineers part of the game again. I got back to do whatever I like doing in the game, which is a bit varied; Trading, Missions, Mining and some RES BH.

All of a sudden I noticed that I had plenty of the Materials needed for an Engineer upgrade (yeah, I had the blueprint for Level 1 FSD). So I went there and got it and pinned the next blueprint.

I continued doing the same type of things I usually do, and all of a sudden I found that I had, again, what was needed to get the second upgrade.

So, instead of me forcing myself to chase these things, I have found that my natural way of playing gave me these things. Granted, I had to get a wake scanner, but I didn't sit outside a Starport waiting for things; I had it and during my normal gameplay, I used it when the oppertunities showed up; so... I turned it around... instead of chasing oppertunites in order to use it, I used it when the oppertunity presented itself.

For me, that was a great way of avoiding the negative grind. And what I mean with negative grind is when you feel so pestered that you need to complain about it.

 

[Aaronjw]

Pretty much agreed with OP. I'm someone who doesn't have tons of free time to invest into the game, and when I was first getting into it, I was frustrated with how much time it would take to get into the better ships. But I finally got into the mindset that (excuse the cliche) Elite: Dangerous isn't about the destination, it's about the journey. I'd like to get an Anaconda one of these days, but if I can't enjoy the game in a Viper, or Vulture, or Python (thanks, 100 million credit community goal!), then I won't enjoy it in a Conda. So I settled in, and enjoy the "grind."

In all honesty, there are a few things which could be a bit less grindy; while I'm mostly happy with the Engineers, there are a few materials that are just infuriating to find, mission reward-only ones in particular (not looking forward to hunting down 25 modular terminals at some point...). But in general, the game is pleasant.

EDIT-- I would say, as far as the Engineers go, it would be REALLY nice if the commodities required for upgrades didn't cause every NPC in the game to attack you at once. I hate that if I have just four modular terminals or whatever, I pretty much can't do any bounty hunting because every pirate NPC in the RES will attack me at once because the 1000 credits worth of commodities in my hold is "a prize worth taking." Okay, Novice Sidewinder NPC, I'm an Expert pilot in a modded Python, but sure, a thousand credits is totally worth the risk.

 

[Obnoxious_Gamer]

Pretty much agreed with OP. I'm someone who doesn't have tons of free time to invest into the game, and when I was first getting into it, I was frustrated with how much time it would take to get into the better ships. But I finally got into the mindset that (excuse the cliche) Elite: Dangerous isn't about the destination, it's about the journey. I'd like to get an Anaconda one of these days, but if I can't enjoy the game in a Viper, or Vulture, or Python (thanks, 100 million credit community goal!), then I won't enjoy it in a Conda. So I settled in, and enjoy the "grind."

In all honesty, there are a few things which could be a bit less grindy; while I'm mostly happy with the Engineers, there are a few materials that are just infuriating to find, mission reward-only ones in particular (not looking forward to hunting down 25 modular terminals at some point...). But in general, the game is pleasant.

The journey consists of pressing J a lot. And avoiding the occasional star or two.

 

[Cosmos]

http://www.taghats.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Crazy-Hat.jpg

I will say that OP has a very good point about how Elite is more about the journey than the destination. That's a great way to explain the lasting appeal that it has for myself and many players. Yes, I agree with Cosmos' observations about grind, but despite that Elite is a game I keep coming back to again and again. It's the journey, the beauty, the mechanics that keep me engaged. It's a universe I want to spend time in. In that, at least, Elite succeeds spectacularly well.

Indeed, yet I'm not just engaged, I'm totally obsessed with the game [haha]

 

[TomP]

Regarding the grind debate... here is my story...

When Engineers were introduced, was the first time where I actually felt a negative effect of "Grinding". The reason for it, was because I was chasing after it. I realized it, and told myself to not touch the Engineers part of the game again. I got back to do whatever I like doing in the game, which is a bit varied; Trading, Missions, Mining and some RES BH.

All of a sudden I noticed that I had plenty of the Materials needed for an Engineer upgrade (yeah, I had the blueprint for Level 1 FSD). So I went there and got it and pinned the next blueprint.

I continued doing the same type of things I usually do, and all of a sudden I found that I had, again, what was needed to get the second upgrade.

So, instead of me forcing myself to chase these things, I have found that my natural way of playing gave me these things. Granted, I had to get a wake scanner, but I didn't sit outside a Starport waiting for things; I had it and during my normal gameplay, I used it when the oppertunities showed up; so... I turned it around... instead of chasing oppertunites in order to use it, I used it when the oppertunity presented itself.

For me, that was a great way of avoiding the negative grind. And what I mean with negative grind is when you feel so pestered that you need to complain about it.

Yes. This sums up what the OP thinks, what other people think, and what I happen to think. Unfortunately, it's a mind set, and so many people assume we are all idiotic or unemployed. I wouldn't bother arguing further with anyone here. It's just a matter of very different perspectives and approaches.

 

[Obnoxious_Gamer]

Yes. This sums up what the OP thinks, what other people think, and what I happen to think. Unfortunately, it's a mind set, and so many people assume we are all idiotic or unemployed. I wouldn't bother arguing further with anyone here. It's just a matter of very different perspectives and approaches.

OP says people are playing the game wrong if they find it grindy. That's the kind of statement that makes people really eager to insult you.

 

[Cosmos]

The problem with ED grind imo can be expressed by a Final Fantasy analogy.

In the very earliest days of that uber-popular JRPG series, experience and cash were earned by performing the same monster-bashing tasks over and over and over again.

In the super-evolved, modern incarnation of Final Fantasy, the 'Bravely Default' handheld series, all 'grind' tasks can be speeded up (literally, they can be put on fast forward), and semi- or entirely automated. You can actually gain stuff while you sleep. You can set up your entire party to be a smoothly oiled xp gathering machine.

Now, here's the interesting part:- I have played every major off-line release in the Final Fantasy series and I have put a stack more time into Bravely Default, without ever getting bored, than the early releases. Probably about 300 hours to 40 hours.

How?

Because Bravely Default provides depth in the variety of its tactics, the need to acquire tools to fight innumerable bosses, themselves possessing tactics of great depth, you have a need not just to gain but to learn.

Basically Bravely Default trivialises the trivial and makes much of the interesting. You rarely if ever have to do something you don't want to do to get something you want - you do something you do want to do to get something you want.

Elite Dangerous is, on this analogy, still on the Super Nintendo. The trivial makes up almost all of the PvE content, repetitively and without any need to improve or reward for doing so.

I don't think this concern is 'in the mind' at all - it's a direct comparison. Elite needs to move forwards several decades before its core game mechanics of rank and property acquisition are more than, in effect, killing / transporting / dropping in on / driving past the same goblin over and over and over again.

However, prior to 2.1 I still found all of this to be ok. I could forgive the game its archaic quality, partly because I'm a 1984-er. I thought the eight months it took me to get from purchase to endgame was about right.

What I personally am still struggling to reconcile myself to is 2.1.

I'd give you more rep but I can't

 

[DaveB]

13 pages of folks arguing whether or not a totally subjective experience, namely "grinding", is or is not in the eye of the beholder.

Of course it's all in your mind. What one person sees as "grind" with all of its negative implications, another just sees as "gameplay"

Objectively speaking, there is not and cannot be anything that is absolutely 100% "grind" because if you accept that "if you feel like you're grinding, then you're grinding" you have to ALSO accept that it's a subjective feeling on your part and somebody else could be doing exactly the same thing while whistling merrily through the primroses and enjoying every minute of it. You may not come close to understanding WHY they enjoy that thing that you find grindy and boring, but the fact remains that they do and their play style is as valid as yours.

Yes, there's a lot of opportunities to "grind" in ED, enough of them that pretty much every player could find - if they looked for one - SOMETHING that would feel like a grind to them. Unless they are totally into the completionist mindset, or at least closer to it than perhaps they would like to admit, then their reaction will likely be to simply not play that aspect of the game. There's plenty of other ways to play.

THAT is why the OP is correct and "grind is in the mind"

 

[Zambrick]

While the sentiment is nice if not a bit confrontational. It is also incorrect. With the addition of the RNG Engineers and the randomness of story required USSs, the grind that we have left is not very fun at all. So it does exist and its not necessary. They pretty much removed all the previous grinding. You can make a million credits within the first 2 hours of playing the game now.

Not near as bad as it used to be.

The real issue is that the games only "perceived" goal is getting bigger and better ships. Its the only way you can individualize yourself in this game. If that wasnt the case, then paint jobs and ship kits, would not exist on the DFEV store. In turn the only people who can afford to have a fleet of anacondas, cutters and or the best paint jobs, are the people who made their money when it was stupid easy around launch, or people who can spend money on paint jobs/kits.

Now there was a dry period of about 8 months between the fix to the bounty exploit and missions, that people really had to grind. But thats about it.

So the grind is still there and its not needed. Its not as prevalent as it was before. Right now all they are missing to make this a complete game is some sort of ship automation and in game tools to perform tasks. I dont imagine that will happen until we get space legs though.

 

[Bobo]

I love my cats. But sometimes I find the clearing up their poop from the litter tray (outside) is a grind.

 

[Cageman]

*snip*

THAT is why the OP is correct and "grind is in the mind"

REP and well said, and that is exactly what happened to me with Engineers... thankfully I realized it and since then, I enjoy this game much, much more.

 

[foebits]

I was just agreeing with the original post. Do you even know what grind is? From your post it looks like you have no idea.

Where did I say that trading wasn't simplistic. Infact i specifically said the all aspects of the game need improving. Trading isn't a grindy mechanic. It is only a grind in the way you go about it.

Do you even know what a grind mechanic is as it seems you don't. I will spell it out. A grind mechanic is something put into the game that you have to do repeatedly to get to the next step of the game.

Legendary weapons/items in LOTRO was a grind mechanic (looks like they have changed that now but it has been a while since I played).

Elite doesn't have any of that. There are various different ways to get rep/credits/influence/ranks. You can make it a grind if you want, it is totally feasable in the game, but there is nothing in the game that forces you to grind the same thing again and again and again to get what you want, therefore no grind mechanic.

"...Elite doesn't have any of that...."
You have no idea what you're talking about and have just invalidated your entire point. It seems 2.1, PP, factions, and credits somehow magically do not exist in your world.

 

[TomP]

OP says people are playing the game wrong if they find it grindy. That's the kind of statement that makes people really eager to insult you.

Well I don't share that view. But I do approach the game in a similar way, which leads me to enjoyment rather than frustration sufficient to post on the official forum about why I hate it so much, while continuing to play it. There are lots of those threads.

 

[Obnoxious_Gamer]

"...Elite doesn't have any of that...."
You have no idea what you're talking about and have just invalidated your entire point. It seems 2.1, PP, factions, and credits somehow magically do not exist in your world.

Come with me...
And you'll see...
A world of my complete fabrication...
What I type will require, explanation...

 

[jasonbarron]

Nobody can argue that all the carrots in this game are all on the end of very VERY long sticks, but whether you chase any one particular carrot is completely up to the individual. I'm going to have to concede the point to the OP and say that everyone who disagrees is wrong.

Now, having opined thusly, I'm wondering if my friend Shadragon has a spare set of flame retardant trousers that I can borrow

 

[Perseus]

I love my cats. But sometimes I find the clearing up their poop from the litter tray (outside) is a grind.

If you're grinding it, you're definitely doing it wrong.