Same old song about cheaters

[Riverside]

They should use the same method as in Star Conflict: if you combat log, you get locked out of the game for 30 minutes.

I like it. Difficult to see any reason why this wouldn't work, it doesn't intrinsically stop a player from deliberately combat logging but the consequence of doing so isn't so bad that it needs to differentiate between an unplanned disconnect & a deliberate one. It also solves the issue of an aggressor attacking then bailing out - half an hour is easily enough to complete your task in the system & move on.

Perhaps if restricting game access is undesirable a similar rule could be applied to mode switching.

 

[InlineSix]

As long as there's the ongoing problem with freezes in graphics whilst the underlying game is still continuing to run, there's no solution to combat logging.

Example:

- I've got 500+ million in rebuys. Can't be called a combat logger, for sure

- Got freezes in graphics, no matter what I do. Every 1 to 100 minutes.

- When graphics freeze, my "opponent" sees my flying. In a straight line. Then vanishing. Looks like combat logging.

See the problem?

They would either have to find a solution to the freeze problem or a way to log it on the servers. As I have my doubts about server logs being 100% bulletproof (got shot by a station, logs say I was fined and I did whatever, all I did was flying a straight line below 100...) I doubt there will be a solid solution for the combat logging problem.

 

[djbully]

iirc, in SWG, when you logged out, there was like a 30second timer or something. So if you were in combat and you logged out you would still be visible on the server for 30 secs or so. This would allow players or AI to continue attacking you and kill you potentially, while you were not even logged on.

Trouble is if there is a glitch or crash or something then that could cost you your life!

I don't think there will ever be a satisfactory to all solution to this.....

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

I've never understood the mentality of a combat logger. These are games after all and the odd death is nothing to start cheating over - if you think otherwise then I'm sorry but computer gaming is just not for you or at least you should think of sticking to Civilisation or Euro Truck Simulator to minimise the risk.

However I do understand the attachment we have to our ships, after the amount of time and effort I have put into building my ship, the way she looks and all the adventures we have had together, loosing her hurts, no other words to describe it. When this does happen I tend to close the game (normally) and take out my frustrations on some poor French people in BF1 - Takes about an hour or 100 or so kills to get me back in a happy place. By this time I'm over the loss and ready to get back in the pilots seat.

Now the technical bit. Remember when you installed windows on your PC or turned it on for the first time and you were asked to accept the EULA? Yea I didn't read it either but it turns out that you have been given access to a whole host of tools and functions that form an intrinsic part of the operating system - not least of these is your right to control any task that is running on your hardware. In order to do this Micro$oft have included the task manager and also the old functionality of ALT+F4 to attempt to force close the current task in the event of a crash or for any other reason - why is not implied to this particular function.

Now given this implicit right there is no reasonable way to identify a combat logger other than a blanket punishment for any and all who loose connection while in battle. This is an old, old argument that will no doubt rattle on for a long time.

Is there an answer? Maybe but it's beyond my knowledge what that would be or how it could be implemented considering your prior agreement with Micro$oft allowing you to use the functions of windows without prejudice.

Catch 22.

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

I was there in my SRV, killing random SRVs, then this black Corvette came. He claimed to be the posessed Warship of the ancient voice. He said he was instructed to protect the excavation site from researchers, everytime someone entered the instance the Corvette warned him to not land. He kept me alive as I told him that I'm a driver-less Spectre SRV that hunts other SRVs, he was fine with keeping me alive, so I observed him.

The Cutter didn't respect the messages and landed. Hence he got attacked.

 

[Rinzler o7o7o7]

I was there in my SRV, killing random SRVs, then this black Corvette came. He claimed to be the posessed Warship of the ancient voice. He said he was instructed to protect the excavation site from researchers, everytime someone entered the instance the Corvette warned him to not land. He kept me alive as I told him that I'm a driver-less Spectre SRV that hunts other SRVs, he was fine with keeping me alive, so I observed him.

Beautiful

 

[Riverside]

I was there in my SRV, killing random SRVs, then this black Corvette came. He claimed to be the posessed Warship of the ancient voice. He said he was instructed to protect the excavation site from researchers, everytime someone entered the instance the Corvette warned him to not land. He kept me alive as I told him that I'm a driver-less Spectre SRV that hunts other SRVs, he was fine with keeping me alive, so I observed him.

The Cutter didn't respect the messages and landed. Hence he got attacked.

Sounds like maybe you should be playing in Solo if you don't want others around?

If you can hold the ground, fair enough. You receive less respect for not telling the whole story in the first place though, seems a bit petty.

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

This isn't about me, I was an observer. The Cutter combat logged twice. He recieved a warning to not land, and logged after he got attacked. Then he used solo to sneak away and position himself for a strike, and switched to open to backstab the corvette just to combat log again and even spit out a few insults before logging. This is, in my opinion, the pinnacle of a scumbag in Elite. You just can't go lower than this.

 

[Riverside]

This isn't about me, I was an observer. The Cutter combat logged twice. He recieved a warning to not land, and logged after he got attacked. Then he used solo to sneak away and position himself for a strike, and switched to open to backstab the corvette just to combat log again and even spit out a few insults before logging. This is, in my opinion, the pinnacle of a scumbag in Elite. You just can't go lower than this.

But you knew the whole story & only posted part of it anyway for points scoring? You haven't redeemed yourself yet buddy

 

[Comrade Error]

I like it. Difficult to see any reason why this wouldn't work, it doesn't intrinsically stop a player from deliberately combat logging but the consequence of doing so isn't so bad that it needs to differentiate between an unplanned disconnect & a deliberate one. It also solves the issue of an aggressor attacking then bailing out - half an hour is easily enough to complete your task in the system & move on.

Perhaps if restricting game access is undesirable a similar rule could be applied to mode switching.

I'm not quite sure how you are in favor of thia but not taking some cash out of the offenders acount.

What is wrong with a system that detects disconnects in combat (or at least PvP since that's less common than PvE, to minimize risks of wrongful punishment) and if it counts X logs in Y time it will at the very least send you a threatening email if not take a rebuy of the ship you were last seen logging in. The margin for error will be very small if X is a bigger number. I think Frontier should adjust based on what the actual risks are of getting someone wrongfully punished.

Getting disconnected while in PvP just as you're shields are about to go down or your hull is really low 3-5 times in a week is pretty unlikely. Game could even check how big your the amount of money you used on rebuys is and also use that in some way, comparing it to credits earned maybe and if it lies well under below average for someone with X amount of cash then it could also factor in whether or not the system deems them a combat logger.

But hey, sure. It in my opinion just seems more excessive than doing it that way. ^

 

[Rinzler o7o7o7]

But you knew the whole story & only posted part of it anyway for points scoring? You haven't redeemed yourself yet buddy

The reason doesn't matter. Combat logging is cheating, no matter what the backstory is.

 

[Comrade Error]

Sure, but it's their choice not ours. I'm not arguing in favour of CLing, but you (not just you) are taking the easy path & simply complaining without taking personal responsibility. Why not do something about it? It's within your control to do so.

Or stop complaining & just get on with it, either way is good

btw I appreciate that the Code (when it was a thing) drew the line in the sand at a sensible point. I'm sure there are many that complained about your exploits before that would be happy to have only the Code to worry about

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See this is again just jumping on the easy quip. I completely understand your position but it doesn't move the argument along. 'tis funny though, I've had it too

What responsibility? I don't have any griefer friends but simply because I don't hang out with griefers doesn't mean there aren't any and if I did what say am I going to have? "Stop griefing you     s!"?

Why don't people who complain about griefing take some personal responsibility? It is after all also combat logging that makes griefers out of pirates.

 

[Riverside]

I'm not quite sure how you are in favor of thia but not taking some cash out of the offenders acount.

What is wrong with a system that detects disconnects in combat (or at least PvP since that's less common than PvE, to minimize risks of wrongful punishment) and if it counts X logs in Y time it will at the very least send you a threatening email if not take a rebuy of the ship you were last seen logging in. The margin for error will be very small if X is a bigger number. I think Frontier should adjust based on what the actual risks are of getting someone wrongfully punished.

Getting disconnected while in PvP just as you're shields are about to go down or your hull is really low 3-5 times in a week is pretty unlikely. Game could even check how big your the amount of money you used on rebuys is and also use that in some way, comparing it to credits earned maybe and if it lies well under below average for someone with X amount of cash then it could also factor in whether or not the system deems them a combat logger.

Good, solid thinking, I agree the number of false positives would be very low. But I think such a system would probably need to have zero false positives & a small number of false negatives for FD to go for it (eliminate all objections). Could you do that? I appreciate that you have more experience in seeing combat logging in the circumstances we would not want to condone.

 

[veryinky]

- Got freezes in graphics, no matter what I do. Every 1 to 100 minutes.

- When graphics freeze, my "opponent" sees my flying. In a straight line. Then vanishing. Looks like combat logging.

For me it happens most often in ice asteroid fields. Very frustrating because I was bounty hunting yesterday and the game would lock up every 10 minutes. Have to kill the process because the screen is frozen in place.

Happens rarely elsewhere, but in ice asteroids it's like clockwork.

 

[Riverside]

The reason doesn't matter. Combat logging is cheating, no matter what the backstory is.

Yes, I said as much myself. However I don't appreciate the incomplete story when the more complete version could change the opinion of a respondant. It's needless bias & comes across as being less than satisfied with the opinion the full story might garner.

The reason doesn't matter to you, it may matter to me or another respondent (it seems I'm the only one who can be bothered atm).

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Why don't people who complain about griefing take some personal responsibility? It is after all also combat logging that makes griefers out of pirates.

I agree. Both should take some responsibility. I seem to have said this a lot recently, I wonder when it will sink in?



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For me it happens most often in ice asteroid fields. Very frustrating because I was bounty hunting yesterday and the game would lock up every 10 minutes. Have to kill the process because the screen is frozen in place.

Happens rarely elsewhere, but in ice asteroids it's like clockwork.

While in combat, just as your shields drop?

A test that can reliably differentiate between an unintended disconnect (CTD) and an intended one (combat logging) would be good.

 

[Comrade Error]

Good, solid thinking, I agree the number of false positives would be very low. But I think such a system would probably need to have zero false positives & a small number of false negatives for FD to go for it (eliminate all objections). Could you do that? I appreciate that you have more experience in seeing combat logging in the circumstances we would not want to condone.

Why? If you do indeed want to play in open with a horrible internet connection or a messed up PC then you can still do that. Everything we do in life has a margin of error. From buying a game that can turn bad or a sending someone to prison for years. Everything has it's risks. When you press open with a bad connection you would accept the very small risk that if you disconnect from combat with a player repidetly then you will be punished. I'm also no expert but wouldn't it be possible to see if someone was a victim of a DDOS attack as well? I believe I read that somewhere. Many games such as GTA (which has been pointed to as dealing with griefers in a good way) do also take that chance. If you disconnect during a mission you get one step closer to a bad sports lobby.

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

I didn't find the backstory important. He combat logged, twice. The second time he initiated the attack himself and exploited mode swotching to position himself for a backstab attack. The backstory of me meeting the corvette is obsolete - the Cutter cheated twice in a row and even used it to gain an advantage of surprise (which didn't help him).

 

[Comrade Error]

Yes, I said as much myself. However I don't appreciate the incomplete story when the more complete version could change the opinion of a respondant. It's needless bias & comes across as being less than satisfied with the opinion the full story might garner.

The reason doesn't matter to you, it may matter to me or another respondent (it seems I'm the only one who can be bothered atm).

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I agree. Both should take some responsibility. I seem to have said this a lot recently, I wonder when it will sink in?



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While in combat, just as your shields drop?

A test that can reliably differentiate between an unintended disconnect (CTD) and an intended one (combat logging) would be good.

So you want me to take responsibility for something I don't take part of?

 

[Riverside]

Why?

If you want to sell something, ideally you need to overcome all the objections. In this case you are selling the idea of a better system for dealing with combat logging to FDev.

In combat you are familiar with the idea of countering their counter to your counter, it's the same thing here.

I want to help you (not just you) to overcome this challenge, I want you (not just you) in Open, because I play paranoid, and like you, my gameplay is richer for there being a clear & present danger in Open. Unlike you though (it seems), my gameplay isn't dependant on there being other players around.

In the original story posted by Earth Ultimatum IV. earlier, had I been in that cutter I would have landed, then been surprised to be attacked & made my escape (or defended, depending on circumstances). I wouldn't have exited the game, and I certainly wouldn't have dropped to solo, regrouped & come back on the offensive.
In the more complete version, I wouldn't have landed (personally I wouldn't have opened fire on the landed Corvette but I would be aware of the option).

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So you want me to take responsibility for something I don't take part of?

What circumstance are you describing? Please be more specific if you are looking for an honest response. I feel you are being less than complete in your responses here, which is a shame after your earlier post (on differentiating unintended & intended disconnects) moved the discussion on a little.

I'd like to make it clear that I am neither a Combat Logger nor Ganker by my own, or anyone elses standards. I would like to help you (not just you) to resolve this.

 

[Rinzler o7o7o7]

Yes, I said as much myself. However I don't appreciate the incomplete story when the more complete version could change the opinion of a respondant. It's needless bias & comes across as being less than satisfied with the opinion the full story might garner.

The reason doesn't matter to you, it may matter to me or another respondent (it seems I'm the only one who can be bothered atm).

The thing is that it's irrelevant. No sort of backstory can make his actions any less than what they are: combat logging.
It's not bias, omission of facts, or anything like that. It's just stating the facts; that he combat logged while playing in open.

If the backstory is important then you can ask him for it for your own benefit.