Engineers Dirty vs Clean Thrusters... Anyone able to give some clarification/help

[StiTch]

depends on the ship... again. conda won#t beat speed records, and speed won't save you, masslock is no issue... I'll always go clean drive on mine.

on my DBE i have G5 dirty drive - in the unlikely event of an interdiction on my way to a safe harbour, i can simply outboost any NPC (having a d-class powerdistributor ENG focussed). also the additional speed is handy for surveying planets ... you noticable faster. on my explonda i use a fighter for that kind of job.

Meh, even on my DBE I run clean drives, clean plant and enjoy the beauty of being close to heatless

Not a serious explorer but I did quickly realise your biggest enemy is attrition. Running into contact binaries, heat damage from fighting against gravity etc. are your biggest worry. Seeing as clean drives is a speed boost anyway, I simply request an escort for protection coming back to bubble, and enjoy feeling invulnerable to the heat of the galaxy

Will take your word for it though. You'll have more experience in the area. There's something satisfying about running a DBE as cool as you can though...

 

[Dommarraa]

And why "explorers, clean drives" - You see the heat of dirty as enough of a concern, even though you have no weapons modules etc?

Yes, I have Clean in my exploration ships.
Its not the weapons, but the time you can scoop below 66%. No real idea if the thrusters have ANY effect on it in Supercruise, but I assume they do.

 

[Lex Humboldt]

but, because also depends on heatcapacity of a ship and powerusage, you can also counter that effect by a low emission powerplant etc. see this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/286628-Research-Detailed-Heat-Mechanics

I got a low emission power plant for one of my stealth ships and I can't see any difference in heat or even signature than without this modification. I did several tests like taking time how long I can fly in silent mode, how boosts change the heat etc.pp. I just see no difference. Maybe the modification values are homeopathic, or it is a bug or even a feature, we never know. I have also torpedos with multi module damage functionality and we made tests and these torpedos do exactly 0% damage in any way. I'll gues nobody ever tried these things.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Yes, I have Clean in my exploration ships.
Its not the weapons, but the time you can scoop below 66%. No real idea if the thrusters have ANY effect on it in Supercruise, but I assume they do.

66%? is that the point at which our wear and tear increases (is W&T even a thing any more?)

I normally only break off my scooping at 90%, then have twitchy bum getting away before taking damage, but i have not done a 1000LY jaunt yet.

 

[Dommarraa]

66%? is that the point at which our wear and tear increases (is W&T even a thing any more?)

I normally only break off my scooping at 90%, then have twitchy bum getting away before taking damage, but i have not done a 1000LY jaunt yet.

No, 66% is the point at which it will start to increase on its own regardless of what you do.

 

[goemon]

I got a low emission power plant for one of my stealth ships and I can't see any difference in heat or even signature than without this modification. I did several tests like taking time how long I can fly in silent mode, how boosts change the heat etc.pp. I just see no difference. Maybe the modification values are homeopathic, or it is a bug or even a feature, we never know. I have also torpedos with multi module damage functionality and we made tests and these torpedos do exactly 0% damage in any way. I'll gues nobody ever tried these things.

if you click the link you quoted: "The heat efficiency stat for power plants = how many BTUs are generated per second, per MW being consumed" --- e.g. if your build produces less or as many BTUs as your PP can handle, there is no need to go low emission...

also, you will only see a difference how fast heat is rising and descending... according to that thread.

 

[Cmdr Bernard]

Great question OP, I have dirty 3 on my Cutter and I'm thinking go clean 5 instead. This will keep my thermal signature down, which can get hot in combat. Also, the dirty 3drive makes the cutter a very nice flying machine IMO.

On my Cutter I use dirty drive 5, still no heat problems even if firing all weapons. As the Cutter is relatively tolerant to heat, I think dirty drive tuning makes sense for this ship.
On the other hand, on my Fer-De-Lance I also have dirty drive 5 and am considering to change that to clean drive 5 because of heat.

I would only "downgrade" from dirty to clean if the current dirty configuration has heat issues, which is not the case in the Cutter (at least with my setup, your experience may differ).

 

[Lex Humboldt]

also, you will only see a difference how fast heat is rising and descending... according to that thread.

Yes, sure, thats what I expect but it seems not to work here. Can't see any difference. Maybe I open a ticket (right after the really important things have been fixed ).

 

[racer1]

I have tried A class g5 dirty on all my ships.

T9 was the only one that had obvious issues, nothing major but you had to be a bit more careful on planets and when scooping and jumping.

My Courier also has heat issues but it is engineered everywhere to within an inch of its life so it may not be the thrusters that are the issue there lol.

Bottom line g5 dirty will only be an issue in ships that are already sensitive to over heating.

I have now have D class g5 clean drives on my T9 and T7 just because those guys always had heat issues to start with.

 

[jmp470]

On my Cutter I use dirty drive 5, still no heat problems even if firing all weapons. As the Cutter is relatively tolerant to heat, I think dirty drive tuning makes sense for this ship.
On the other hand, on my Fer-De-Lance I also have dirty drive 5 and am considering to change that to clean drive 5 because of heat.

I would only "downgrade" from dirty to clean if the current dirty configuration has heat issues, which is not the case in the Cutter

(at least with my setup, your experience may differ).

Thank you for letting me know, I will give them both the shot

 

[goemon]

Yes, sure, thats what I expect but it seems not to work here. Can't see any difference. Maybe I open a ticket (right after the really important things have been fixed ).

i have not experimented enough with combat builds and heat...

i just got clean drive tuning for my double railgun DBS, and i hope it makes a difference

 

[Nandayo]

On my Cutter I use dirty drive 5, still no heat problems even if firing all weapons. As the Cutter is relatively tolerant to heat, I think dirty drive tuning makes sense for this ship.
On the other hand, on my Fer-De-Lance I also have dirty drive 5 and am considering to change that to clean drive 5 because of heat.

I would only "downgrade" from dirty to clean if the current dirty configuration has heat issues, which is not the case in the Cutter (at least with my setup, your experience may differ).

Are your weapons engineered? DD5 with OC + incendiary MCs will fry a clipper instantly with one boost and trigger held down.

 

[racer1]

On my Cutter I use dirty drive 5, still no heat problems even if firing all weapons. As the Cutter is relatively tolerant to heat, I think dirty drive tuning makes sense for this ship.
On the other hand, on my Fer-De-Lance I also have dirty drive 5 and am considering to change that to clean drive 5 because of heat.

I would only "downgrade" from dirty to clean if the current dirty configuration has heat issues, which is not the case in the Cutter (at least with my setup, your experience may differ).

My FDL with g5 OC PP and g5 DD has no real heat issues. Occasionally I'll have to stop firing my 5x g5 OC MC (3x thermal ,2x corrosive) to let the heat drop but it is rare.

 

[goemon]

Are your weapons engineered? DD5 with OC + incendiary MCs will fry a clipper instantly with one boost and trigger held down.

it might have more to do with general outfitting ... e.g. prismatics reinforced = massive power draw, permanent heat build up?

switching on my speedcourier from 2A low power to 2D reinforced (for basically the same MJ, but much less power) dropped its heat noticeable.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

G1 Clean drives are cheaper to reroll with than G1 Dirty drives. It's all about the optimal mass secondary effect. Can't afford to spend 10 legacy firmware. Rather spend 30 sulphur. I've gotten some beastly G1 mods just because of the secondary effects.

Oh boy, are they ever.

I've had better luck with my clean drive rolls.

If combat is your thing, speed is life. Dirty drives. But, they have their drawbacks, too.

 

[Cmdr Bernard]

Are your weapons engineered? DD5 with OC + incendiary MCs will fry a clipper instantly with one boost and trigger held down.

Yes, all engineered. In the Cutter no problem at all, but that of course depends on the exact weapon setup. I use reinforced bi-weave shields, it may be different with other shield types and modifications. I don't know about engineered Clippers, don't have one at the moment.

My FDL with g5 OC PP and g5 DD has no real heat issues. Occasionally I'll have to stop firing my 5x g5 OC MC (3x thermal ,2x corrosive) to let the heat drop but it is rare.

Hmm, interesting. I should check my modules, perhaps I had a bad roll on heat on some module. But I think my problem are the two overcharged incendiary C2 multicannons, when I take them away from my firegroup, there is no heat issue anymore.

Anyways, the main point is that it not only depends on the ship but also on the specific setup. Whatever people complain about Engineers, I love them for the endless tweaking possibilities. Thanks to module storage, it's now more convinient to experiment.

 

[Lex Humboldt]

I would only "downgrade" from dirty to clean if the current dirty configuration has heat issues, which is not the case in the Cutter (at least with my setup, your experience may differ).

Downgrade from dirty g5 to dirty g4 or dirty g3 might be a better choice than change to clean drive.

 

[Ddraig]

I think for exploration clean drives have their value when you make a mistake and fall into the exclusion zone of a star and you risk damaging your ship more than needed at many thousands ly away from anywhere, specially when you don't bring a repair unit, like I do.

Combat, I think it depends on the ship, the loadout and if it is PVE or PVP. In PVE you do not need that much speed but to keep firing the longest as possible, so depending on the ship and guns you carry is the type of tune you need for your engines.

Both tunes give better handling and speed.
Dirty gives a lot of both at the expense of heat.
Clean gives a bit more but keeps you cool.

 

[NeilF]

I think for exploration clean drives have their value when you make a mistake and fall into the exclusion zone of a star and you risk damaging your ship more than needed at many thousands ly away from anywhere, specially when you don't bring a repair unit, like I do.

Combat, I think it depends on the ship, the loadout and if it is PVE or PVP. In PVE you do not need that much speed but to keep firing the longest as possible, so depending on the ship and guns you carry is the type of tune you need for your engines.

Both tunes give better handling and speed.
Dirty gives a lot of both at the expense of heat.
Clean gives a bit more but keeps you cool.

But consider an Exploration Anaconda for example... If you only fit 5A or 5D thruster unit on it (for super low weight), are you going to notice 50% more heat output? eg: Compared to if you'd put a 6A or 7A unit on?

Or likewise with an Asp runnign lowering thrusters for jump range.

Need to find out the thermal output of a standard 5A vs a 7A I guess in the case of an Anaconda?

 

[guido1205us]

I went with G5 clean on my Python that has all G4 Focus pulse lasers. I also have G5 charge enhanced PD. Without clean and G3 dirty I would overheat. Now I can put 4 pips to weapons and fire all without heat issues or power drain. In fact it's so efficient I'm thinking about swapping 2 beams back in. This setup works great for this mission running ship.

I'll be upgrading my Vette from G3 dirty to G5. This boat is just a lazy gun ship for grinding mats at WZ and it also doesn't have any heat issues with all pulses.