Engineers Dirty vs Clean Thrusters... Anyone able to give some clarification/help

goemon

goemon
NeilF said:
But consider an Exploration Anaconda for example... If you only fit 5A or 5D thruster unit on it (for super low weight), are you going to notice 50% more heat output? eg: Compared to if you'd put a 6A or 7A unit on?

Or likewise with an Asp runnign lowering thrusters for jump range.

Need to find out the thermal output of a standard 5A vs a 7A I guess in the case of an Anaconda?
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you will not gain anything from fitting 7A above 6A - an explonda is already below 50% optimal thruster mass of 6A thrusters.

but yes, basically you would need

a) heat buildup per second of 5D/5A/6D/6A and calculate heat via power usage into it.
b) check, that you don't get below maximum thruster mass via dirty drive tuning with a 5D/5A (depends on loadout ... passenger cabins ... fighter bay...)
c) maximum multiplier of an a-class thruster at 50% thruster mass is 16% ... 6% for d-class thrusters. e.g. going for a class instead of d class is worth a bit more then 10% optimal multiplier of a drive tuning (because reduced optimal thruster mass will reduced speed slightly)...

if this question would have come up during beta, i would have loved to test it!
 

Ddraig

Ddraig
NeilF said:
But consider an Exploration Anaconda for example... If you only fit 5A or 5D thruster unit on it (for super low weight), and you going to notice 50% more heat output? eg: Compared to if you'd put a 6A or 7A unit on?

Need to find out the thermal output of a standard 5A vs a 7A I guess?
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The heat output is managed by the PP, not the engines. Engines generate waste heat per use in a flat rate regardless of size and rating. The dirty and clean tune simple add or reduce this static number depending on the RNG result.
The other factor that manages heat is the ship itself. Some have better heat management than others, the PP enhances this base value in a very general way and this value is modified by the tunes you make. There is not much more to it, the whole system is rather streamlined to keep things simple.
 

goemon

goemon
Lex Humboldt said:
Yes, sure, thats what I expect but it seems not to work here. Can't see any difference. Maybe I open a ticket (right after the really important things have been fixed ;) ).
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coming back to this.

i got clean drives L5 yesterday on my double medium railgun dbs. comparing G5 dirty drive and clean drive (i have run a RES session with both):

dirty drives: i get "heat critical" while charging the second consecutive railgun shot, and will take heat damage at the third consecutive railgun shot.

clean drives: i get "heat critical" while chargin the third consecutive shot, and will take heatdamage at the fourth consecutive shot.

= clean drives allow me one shot more.

this even gets worse when under fire (heat from SYS drain?), boosting, etc.

and because i suck with fixed weapons, the less manouverability of clean drives makes it easier for me :)
 

StiTch

StiTch
goemon said:
coming back to this.

i got clean drives L5 yesterday on my double medium railgun dbs. comparing G5 dirty drive and clean drive (i have run a RES session with both):

dirty drives: i get "heat critical" while charging the second consecutive railgun shot, and will take heat damage at the third consecutive railgun shot.

clean drives: i get "heat critical" while chargin the third consecutive shot, and will take heatdamage at the fourth consecutive shot.

= clean drives allow me one shot more.

this even gets worse when under fire (heat from SYS drain?), boosting, etc.

and because i suck with fixed weapons, the less manouverability of clean drives makes it easier for me :)
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Yeah if you have a specific heat based weapon setup, clean drives is fun for playing with. It's just a shame rail builds have been largely underwhelming since 2.1 thanks to having literally no decent mods and not giving them a reasonable DPS compared to multis etc., especially given the heat output and ammo/power requirements.

Just because of the awesome factor, I am still very tempted to try a rail DBS with clean drives and plasma slug. How are you finding the DPS? And what mod did you lump on it? I'm seeing the mods available as effectively negatives, so would prolly run lightweight and roll until I mitigate the DPS loss, just so I can whack the effect on.
 
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StiTch

StiTch
goemon said:
this even gets worse when under fire (heat from SYS drain?), boosting, etc.
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Oh and this - thermal weapons generate heat in the attacking ship AND the attacked ship. Hence just after 2.1 dropped and they introduced the message "warning, thermal attack" to notify people of this, everyone went mad thinking they were being ganked by thermal shock.
 

goemon

goemon
StiTch said:
Yeah if you have a specific heat based weapon setup, clean drives is fun for playing with. It's just a shame rail builds have been largely underwhelming since 2.1 thanks to having literally no decent mods and not giving them a reasonable DPS compared to multis etc., especially given the heat output and ammo/power requirements.

Just because of the awesome factor, I am still very tempted to try a rail DBS with clean drives and plasma slug. How are you finding the DPS? And what mod did you lump on it? I'm seeing the mods available as effectively negatives, so would prolly run lightweight and roll until I mitigate the DPS loss, just so I can whack the effect on.
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i went with L3 lightweight + plasma slug... i originally wanted that railguns for my carrier keelback (AI is just sooo good with railguns), but it is great fun to run it on a DBS, which is probably the only ship that can use double railguns (for heat and manouverability reasons). i wouldn't bother with a single railgun, though (i have one for my speed courier, too - there i prefer frags).

obviously i'm more effective with the multicannons/pulse/beam/missiles loadout i normally use on my DBS, but i'm currently working a system for BGS reasons, that only has a high RES - using railguns and getting better with it is the challenge i'm looking for. against larger ships with good hull (gunships, clippers, condas) i am clearly faster killing with the double railguns .... but an eagle/viper/cobra mkIII can take several minutes to get down...
 

StiTch

StiTch
Heavenly-Hammer said:
I'm going to roll grade 5 dirtys on my iEagle today with rails because I'm nuts.
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You just created something genius.

Step 1) Obtain iEagle
Step 2) Add rails and dirty drives, with all internal slots as cargo
Step 3) Purchase as much uncooked popcorn as possible
Step 4) Fly over city and fire railguns repeatedly
Step 5) Watch heat cook popcorn and cause cargo hatch malfunction
Step 6) Enjoy showering city with free popcorn rain in 850 m/s popcorn bombing runs
 

SupremeMorph

SupremeMorph
My understanding of the difference, from a practical sense, is that where dirty drives raise your resting heat level, clean drives lower it. However, dirty drives win out everywhere else, i.e. performance, power draw, etc.

For example, if your resting heat level is about 25%, you could expect that to go to 15%-ish with G5 clean, or 35%-ish with G5 dirty. Personally, I prefer dirty drives as the performance improvement is incredibly noticeable.

To put it in perspective, my python with G3 dirty (performance equivalent to G5 clean) was notably better than the stock A-grade thrusters, but still handled in the slightly sluggish way of a python. With G5 dirty, however, it was handling more akin to a cobra-III with stock A-grade thrusters
 

rrobes

R
Nandayo said:
The extra heat generation of Dirty drives can really be a problem in certain situations.

If you are doing combat you need to optimise you other modules or you're going have to heat-sink every time you press the trigger for longer than 5 seconds.

However the extra heat doesn't come without benefits. Yaw/turn/speed/boost everything is noticeably superior with DD.

In short: DD = Faster ship, more heat

A couple of screenshots to compare, Dirty drives 5 vs Clean drives 5 on a Clipper.

http://imgur.com/a/tjy1H DD5 vs CD5 + individual stats
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One thing, it is ship-dependent. I only have two combat ships, both with DD5's. The Corvette can fire continuously with no heat issues (4-0-2), the Python does overheat if you are not careful but the DD5 helps it scoot and is much more agile. Agility is imparted to the Corvette but to a lesser degree. I may look into CD5's for my Exploconda which is a work in progress, thanks for the hints gentlemen.
 

K-Rose

K-Rose
Great thread. Wanting to get some advice myself, I've read through these pages and I'm still trying to work out which to get.

I've got an Anaconda, I use it as a true multi-purpose, it's got a bit of everything and does a bit of everything, she's my main ship and the one I plan on sticking with until something bigger comes along (without rank restriction).

My gut feeling is to go with Clean Drive Tuning for the efficiency and having to worry so much less about heat.

What are other people's experiences with DD or CD for the Anaconda?
 

UnhappyDev

UnhappyDev
K-Rose said:
Great thread. Wanting to get some advice myself, I've read through these pages and I'm still trying to work out which to get.

I've got an Anaconda, I use it as a true multi-purpose, it's got a bit of everything and does a bit of everything, she's my main ship and the one I plan on sticking with until something bigger comes along (without rank restriction).

My gut feeling is to go with Clean Drive Tuning for the efficiency and having to worry so much less about heat.

What are other people's experiences with DD or CD for the Anaconda?
Click to expand...

I use my conda for exploration/mining/trading and have the clean drive tuning. Works well for these activities, especially exploration, you can scoop and jump without having to worry about the heat build up.

I don't use my conda for combat, but would probably have DD tuning for pulses/multicannons and clean drive if I had PAs or rails
 

NeilF

NeilF
UnhappyDev said:
I use my conda for exploration/mining/trading and have the clean drive tuning. Works well for these activities, especially exploration, you can scoop and jump without having to worry about the heat build up.

I don't use my conda for combat, but would probably have DD tuning for pulses/multicannons and clean drive if I had PAs or rails
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In truth, for exploration, Dirty is fine from what I'm aware of as the heat issues aren't really a concern!?
 

goemon

goemon
NeilF said:
In truth, for exploration, Dirty is fine from what I'm aware of as the heat issues aren't really a concern!?
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i underestimated the effect of higher G ... my DBE runs very hot on those worlds. but you can work around that. all the rest already said in this thread....
 
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