Horizons When do you think we'll see AI-NPCs that make sense?

[Sanderson]

Here's what I struggle with:

The AI-NPC ships in ED, after the time I've played, seem stuck in a routine. One can almost always predict , to a certain degree, what ships will spawn in any given area. What type, what rank , how many, wanted status, etc. Also, they seem to be unaware of basic common sense. For example; a lone Eagle at a RES that decides to attack a miner in full view of a swarm of much stronger security ships or deciding it's better to stay and fight an obviously unwinnable battle instead of running or not doing something stupid to start with. See a wanted shuttle? Most likely there'll be one or two Sideys tagging along. It's so repetitive one can jump into an area and almost immediately tell what will show up by the first few ships to spawn. I know I do it a lot at RES areas anyway.

Why don't pirates jump into a RES, nav or whatever in force? At the very least why aren't they smart enough to know not to attack a ship they can possibly beat? Why is it you'll never see a wanted Type 9 unless it's accidently hit a friendly ship? How come they aren't smart enough to start charging their FSD as soon as they hit a Nav beacon? Why did they stop at the beacon to start with?

I could go on and on about the repetitive, predictable nature of the AI-NPCs everywhere in the game, but that would take a wall of text even the cannon guys/gals couldn't read through.

Just once I'd like to go somewhere and be like "Whoa! I didn't see that coming!" Instead it's ok I know what's coming, every time. I have no idea how ED generates what ships spawn where (other than it's very limited) and I have no idea the work it would or would not take to mix things up a bit, but it sure would be nice.

 

[Steyla]

To answer your question; Not in our life time.

AI is nothing else then a wishful thinking. There is no AI, yet. It is just some algorithms which gives you the illusion of Artificially Intelligence.

My wife is playing ARMA and the NPC's there are as stupid and predictable as in ED. Perhaps not as bad as in ED, but bad enough.

And this is good. Imagine there would be a real 'AI'. Then mankind would be in deep trouble.


Best,
Styx

 

[goemon]

during beta 2.1. AI had a flleing algorythm to run from a unwinanble fight, or to disengage till they had full shields, and come back. makes sense? yes. players complained, because it ruined their fun of "killing" npc ships (especially in comparable slow combat ships like corvette). so it was changed back. not everything that makes sense makes fun in a game.

also, many people enjoy predictability. see various TV shows, movie scripts, etc. for many, life isn't predictable enough.

 

[CMDR MERANGO]

Here's what I struggle with:

The AI-NPC ships in ED, after the time I've played, seem stuck in a routine. One can almost always predict , to a certain degree, what ships will spawn in any given area. What type, what rank , how many, wanted status, etc. Also, they seem to be unaware of basic common sense. For example; a lone Eagle at a RES that decides to attack a miner in full view of a swarm of much stronger security ships or deciding it's better to stay and fight an obviously unwinnable battle instead of running or not doing something stupid to start with. See a wanted shuttle? Most likely there'll be one or two Sideys tagging along. It's so repetitive one can jump into an area and almost immediately tell what will show up by the first few ships to spawn. I know I do it a lot at RES areas anyway.

Why don't pirates jump into a RES, nav or whatever in force? At the very least why aren't they smart enough to know not to attack a ship they can possibly beat? Why is it you'll never see a wanted Type 9 unless it's accidently hit a friendly ship? How come they aren't smart enough to start charging their FSD as soon as they hit a Nav beacon? Why did they stop at the beacon to start with?

I could go on and on about the repetitive, predictable nature of the AI-NPCs everywhere in the game, but that would take a wall of text even the cannon guys/gals couldn't read through.

Just once I'd like to go somewhere and be like "Whoa! I didn't see that coming!" Instead it's ok I know what's coming, every time. I have no idea how ED generates what ships spawn where (other than it's very limited) and I have no idea the work it would or would not take to mix things up a bit, but it sure would be nice.

Because everyone will complain that FDev have got it wrong again!

 

[Sanderson]

I wasn't aware beta 2.1 had a common sense clause for NPCs. ISn't that why we can target their FSD drive and thrusters etc.?

Ok so no running, how about "I'm in an mostly harmless Eagle. I probably shouldn't attack this Elite Anaconda" ? Or, perhaps, "I'm in a Sidewinder. I'd better call a few fellow pirates before I start a fight with a dozen security ships around"?

.....and just once I'd like to see a crazy Type 9 pirate or even a scenario where I'd be like "Holy crap a fleet of pirates to match the security forces, maybe I should run!"

If in fact FD removed the "run" programing for NPCs, that was a mistake IMO. They created the CQC for the pew pew didn't they?

 

[Mike Reacher]

Not all NPC's are looking stupid. I get quite a few that run and jump when I have them at a slight disadvantage.
I have never used the module targeting yet so don't get any practice from trading.

 

[goemon]

"Holy crap a fleet of pirates to match the security forces, maybe I should run!"

there used to be 2-3 scenarios of that kind. the sidey scenario when taking a kill pirates mission. at some stae in that mission type the local gang would bring 10-12 sideys winged up into air. the second scenario was around outposts, and had a pirate attack. the third was in RES - a fleet of pirate ships coming in, when you shot to many in a row. haven't seen those scenarios for some time .... as haven't seen the "crazy cop" or a minor faction attacking a station during war. maybe those scenarios where taken out for 2.1/2.2?.

 

[Archduke]

I really only conisder the AI when it comes to combat.
The combat AI is poor to be honest.

Not even sure why Elite pilots would be hanging around with a bounty in NAV points, maybe they're just cocky idiots, but it's very stupid and theuy do so.

Anyway, so first the actual spawn itself in terms of the ship type and its PF/EF 'rank' are irrational.
Then the fact that the ship type and ranking don't even reflect the AI capability (aside form the number of hardpoints, hull integrity and basic module sizes etc. of that ship) - Elite AI fly just a erratically as Mostly Harmless (including that whole "I'm just going to sit still whilst you shoot me") nonsense they enjoy.
Next its the only real aspect of PvE that affects challenge whatsoever is the size of the pack, use of infinite ammunition/missiles and instant (i.e. non cyclic) pip prioritisation.
Otherwise there's certainly no tactics employed.*


*I'm sure someone will expliain and FD will argue that they have dedicated coders tirelessly scripting thousands of lines where the AI check for x and react by doing y etc. - I do not doubt that there is some attempt in the background (and yes, I have videogame development experience so I appreciate even a basic principle of 3D dogfighting a static opponent when there's obstacles to avoid and such is a considerable workload) to simulate and present an illusion of tactical combat expertise, but it just DOES NOT WORK in the end result and the end-user only sees and experiences this end result, so all the lines of code and complexities are largely wasted if they are not providing the intended outcome.

AI at its heart (Outside of research into machine intelligence etc.) especially for videogames is not an attempt to recreate intelligence and intelligent thinking or mimic thought process - the INTENT from a development standpoint (and in games the optimisation pressures is immense) is to determine stateful decisions in a manner which the player can perceive as being intelligent. If player A shoots entity B then a believably intelligent response if it tries to evade the shots (esp. if outmatched) or shoots back (esp. if NOT outmatched and even more so with a good weighting in favour of a possible win) for example.
Many other factors can be considered (taking into account both the AI and their opponent(s), such as number of allies, level of shields, range of weaponry range, ammunition levels, supplies of supportive equipment and overall, risk vs reward (What exactly does an AI sidewinder with a bounty already have to gain by attacking a fully combat ready Anaconda carrying a single canister of Algae?







I appreciate though that FD want to make PvE so lamentably point and click because they are so aggressively discouraging of any PvP, so they think this is a means of allowing anyone (cater to the lowest denominator masses) to "get invovled" in combat