Controls.. Again.

[evilgenx]

I know this has been done to death, but I think I payed for the right to bring it up again. I recently bought the 150 buck Beta package and so far have enjoyed 0 minutes of the game. Instead, I've spent days (over 20 hours game play - don't even know why I call it gameplay. It's not.) screwing with controls, trying suggestions, reading forum posts and now trying to get a refund.

I've read the dev blogs where they specify controls are exactly how they want them and how they don't even consider doing anything different. The discussions about this game (for some reason?) wanting the controls the way they are is to be different. Well, I contest this - why change the controls to make a "different" game? This isn't innovation and alienates a huge number of players that just don't want to go spend 300 bucks on a decent controller. Do something else to innovate. Please.

I have a logitech rumblepad 2 which I've tried to setup for this game and had a bit of success but overall the controls are just clunkly, not intuitive. Next to impossible to have a proper dog fight and even finish the bloody training missions. Multiplayer? Whats that, I'll never get there with this mess of a game since I can't complete/compete (or even slightly enjoy) the single player missions. And why would I want to? I have no desire to be feeding other pilots experience while having to replace my own ship over and over again.

I understand this is beta, but one thing I'd expect after a Alpha release is properly working controls or options to setup a controls the way *I* like it, not the way some dev likes it with his 300 buck joystick/peddles/throttle. *I* prefer mouse/keyboard. I don't like being forced into buying a god damn controller for the one game I have that needs it. Nothing else in this genre requires me to do so, so why this game? Is this how ED plans to separate it's self from other games? Making it a game for people with ridiculous flight sim setups and controllers? If thats the case, give me my money. This game will flop simply because you are alienating a huge number of players.

The feeling I get about all this from reading multiple dev posts, blogs and user forum posts alike is that the development team has decided they are happy with the controls and thats the end of it. I have a vibe that they are being "stubborn" with this topic for some reason. Someone can't admit they made a mistake or what? Thats not fair nor is it a way to do business, they (dev team) are a narrow group of players who have had intimate experience and time with the game/controls since the beginning. I'm a new player and so far - can't play the game. I feel ripped off and should've did more research (if thats even possible) on gameplay.

At the end of the day, I doubt I'll play this ever despite my excitement and desire to do so. I suspect there will be thousands of players that feel as I do since the majority of players coming to this game are very experienced with this genre of game and will be surprised/disappointed by the controls (or lack of).

Everytime I load the game and try to play I'm met with frustration, anger and the over whelming feeling I just chucked 150 bucks down the toilet. Maybe it's a game that's best let to people that can afford the external gear/setup one needs to simply play the game.

Good luck with that.

 

[Stoo]

You do know you're testing what will become a final game, yes? Not playing an early release purely for your enjoyment...

Have you tried approaching FD support with your controller issues?

 

[ZaphodBeeble]

I suspect there will be thousands of players that feel as I do since the majority of players coming to this game are very experienced with this genre of game and will be surprised/disappointed by the controls (or lack of).

I find it odd that you're struggling so much. I've played with both mouse & keyboard and now with a Saitek X52 Pro. Both methods take a little getting used to but they are in no way disappointing to use.

Also, many, MANY people have played the game at shows and the like and have had a great first experience.

To be good at the game, however, does take some practise. It's a bit like chess. You can learn the moves but it doesn't make you any good at it.

Personally, I love the difficulty. It means that when I actually get good at it I'll actually be good because of my skill; not because of my credit rating.

 

[Ixnatifual]

The devs aren't currently satisfied with the mouse/keyboard controls, so expect this to improve at some point during the beta test.

 

[Antmax]

I came from war thunder arcade battles and was a bit overwhelmed at first. I found some button layout diagrams for my stick some with button numbers labeled. Went through the control setup and wrote down what buttons did what and never looked back. It did take me about 2 hours to find my way around teh X52. But I'm finding the scenarios fairly easy except the last two.

Perhaps all those months of War Thunder combat with poor wobbly joystick control helped. Elite is a bit easier with the 6 direction thrusters and what seems like full reverse speed. Makes getting AI off of your six much easier than I am used to.

 

[ZZleeZZ]

I find it odd that you're struggling so much. I've played with both mouse & keyboard and now with a Saitek X52 Pro. Both methods take a little getting used to but they are in no way disappointing to use.

Also, many, MANY people have played the game at shows and the like and have had a great first experience.

To be good at the game, however, does take some practise. It's a bit like chess. You can learn the moves but it doesn't make you any good at it.

Personally, I love the difficulty. It means that when I actually get good at it I'll actually be good because of my skill; not because of my credit rating.

Exactly what the Zaphod said +1

OP, you might feel that the devs are being stubborn but I cant believe they have not looked very carefully at these issues and gone with a system that balances playability, ease of access and the wishes of the biggest slice of the market that is likely to buy the game. Personally I love the controls, I have not had a game give me such a buzz in many a year and I have been playing computer games since well before the original Elite was released

I have tried mouse (was ok but felt I could get more from a joystick) xbox controller (hated it but then I hate xbox controllers for anything except moving through menus) an ultra cheap Thrustmaster t-flight HOTAS x (£20GBP, for the money this was amazing) and now I have settled on a Saitek x52 pro (cost a bit more but you can pick them up second hand for reasonable money if you are patient, and its soooooo worth every penny).

I would recommend you try the t-flight HOTAS x as it really is cheap but actually pretty good and would make the game come alive for you.

Hope you dont give up on an amazing game.

 

[TheDoctor]

You could even try and pick up a cheap 2nd hand sidewinder2 off ebay.

I am still using my old one a treat and it works with win7 as that the has the drivers built in.

What I had to do with the controls was to go into the key mapping and lay down my own prefs and go from there tweaking as I went along. (And I have made screenshots of those bindings in case they get wiped at the next update)

 

[Schnittertm]

Mouse/Keyboard control just feels counterintuitive to me. I've always played space sims with a joystick for as long as I can remember, beginning with X-Wing spanning several Wing Commander and Freespace games to now ED. I actually was quite disappointed with Freelancer that only offered Mouse/Keyboard controls and was more of a point and click action game than a space and trading sim, especially if you factor in that prices for goods were fixed.

Certainly they could and should do something for the KB/M crowd, however it might not be that easy as analog controls just plain out beat digital controls in games like this. An on and off switch just doesn't give you fine enough control on the axis it is really needed for. I think that gimballed weapons are already a concession for those digital keyboard controls.

I object however to the claim that you have to spend 300 funds of any more well know western currency (pound, euro, dollar) to have a joystick that will suit this game. There are already some entry level joysticks with twist rudders and enough buttons to get you going available starting from around 35-40 Euros and they are more than enough. True, a full HOTAS gives you more button at your fingertips, but the most important functions needed in combat can be put on the buttons of most unexpensive joysticks.

My suggestion would be to try one, either by biting the bullet and biting one or looking for someone that can let you try or lend you a joystick. In my opinion it is an experience that will increase authenticity and, at least to me, is much more enjoyable than kb/m controls or badly done joystick controls (e.g. BF3/4)

 

[Naranek]

Everytime I load the game and try to play I'm met with frustration, anger and the over whelming feeling I just chucked 150 bucks down the toilet. Maybe it's a game that's best let to people that can afford the external gear/setup one needs to simply play the game. Good luck with that.

you do realize this sounds a bit ridiculous? paying almost three times the price of a normal, finished game for a beta and then complaining that it doesn't work the way you want because you can't (or don't want to) afford a suitable controller?

seriously though: personally i don't get how people can play games like elite dangerous with anything else than a joystick (and there's joysticks from 50 dollars –*which is less than your rumblepad cost – to those 300 dollars you mentioned). even though it's set in space, it still basically is a flight sim, and i've never heard of pilots using mouse and keyboard. for me, it would totally kill the immersion.

 

[tooterfish]

Is this a rant about yaw rates, it's hard to tell?

 

[evilgenx]

So the feeling I'm getting here is..

1) Buy a flight system if I want to enjoy this game.
2) Wait for keyboard/mouse controls to be fixed (if indeed they ever will be, dev's don't seem keen from what I read to even support this play style). I don't might waiting, I just see *tons* of resistance from FD/Dev team/Players with the flightsystems on this for whatever reason.
3) Buy a flight system (I know this is twice) cause yeh, the game is not nearly as enjoyable/much more difficult without it.
4) Accept that all I'll be able to do is mine and participate in economy.

When it should be..

1) I never had to deal with any of this. I install the game, load it up, enjoy the visuals, get even more excited, setup my keys the way I'm used to and play the game.

Maybe I'm cranky, disappointed, whatever. Not sure, never been in this situation before and I've been playing games since Karateka (circa 1984). Reading through the reply tho I see the usual responses, I'm silly for trying to play a game the way I like/want to play it, and even more silly for saying something about it. I wasn't aware I *had* to invest more money into this to simply try it out and wish I had known.

Anyone know how I go about selling my beta key or want to buy it for a friend? I'm not holding my breath for a refund.

 

[jgm]

No offense, but you haven't actually stated what your problem is. All you've said (albeit at some length) is that you can't get the hang of them.

If you could explain your problem then perhaps someone here will be able to help you.

 

[Yaffle]

From Mike Evans, the designer:

Hang on a minute, mouse controls are no way near decent at the moment and I have some plans to improve them but it just hasn't been given the time yet to do so. I'm amazed that people can be as effective as they have been with them but there is still much to do yet.

As others have said, it's a beta. It's in development. Set out what your issue is and ticket it.

 

[Naranek]

one more thing, and i'm not being sarcastic: there's a couple of games i'd LOVE to play. unfortunately, they're exclusive for xbox and playstation. and i a) only have a pc and b) HATE gamepads (believe me, i've tried, they're just beyond me –*unlike, say, a joystick). but i'd never buy an xbox or playstation game and then complain it's not behaving the way i like. let a lone an xbox or playstation beta (if there's any such thing).

i'm sorry elite dangerous is a disappointment to you, i really am. it's such an amazing game (even in beta).

 

[Wavey]

Dont forget you are beta testing ,the finished game will be different .This is not a fully playable game you have bought ...

 

[ZaphodBeeble]

So the feeling I'm getting here is..

It seems as though you think that we're all out to get you. There's a general consensus here that shows that we're all getting along fine with the game, albeit after spending some time learning the controls, so why can't you take that consensus and realise that it's YOU that has to change; not the game?

I don't want to argue with you, I just want you to realise that you will be missing out if you leave now. Give it some more time, it will be worth it. I spent a whole weekend getting frustrated with the game until it just clicked for me and it's been great since. Seriously, give it some more time.

 

[Amos]

I suspect the OP is referring to roll/pitch etc, if thats the case that is how all the elite games played, I too struggled on a joypad keyboard and mouse were hard for me so I bought a cheap hotas and never looked back, this game deserves a joystick of some sorts.

either wait for the keyboard/mouse controls to be refined which has been confirmed by a dev that they are aware that those controls are not perfect or buy a thrustmaster t-flight hotas x £30 I paid for it and worth every penny.

no offence here

There is no use whining complaining on the forums as nothing can be done here speak to FD or suck it up and wait/buy better controls.

 

[natte hond]

I did a search on your pad.
but can only find it on discounter sites.
think that says enough.
you cant expect every thing yo be supported , certainly not at this stage.

you don't have to spent 300 for a controller to test this Beta.
get your selves an Xbox controller and of you go.

 

[burzum]

I don't understand your problem as well. You rant a lot but you can't really name your problem? At least I don't get your point.

You can't map whatever button you want to your game pad? Report it as an issue to the developers. You're actually testing this software, it's not a finished product yet.

You can't simply fly? Is that your problem? Well, then it is truly yours, not the game. There are threads with people who play it with mouse and keyboard and are fine with it.

 

[Dante80]

So the feeling I'm getting here is..

1) Buy a flight system if I want to enjoy this game.
2) Wait for keyboard/mouse controls to be fixed (if indeed they ever will be, dev's don't seem keen from what I read to even support this play style). I don't might waiting, I just see *tons* of resistance from FD/Dev team/Players with the flightsystems on this for whatever reason.
3) Buy a flight system (I know this is twice) cause yeh, the game is not nearly as enjoyable/much more difficult without it.
4) Accept that all I'll be able to do is mine and participate in economy.

When it should be..

1) I never had to deal with any of this. I install the game, load it up, enjoy the visuals, get even more excited, setup my keys the way I'm used to and play the game.

Maybe I'm cranky, disappointed, whatever. Not sure, never been in this situation before and I've been playing games since Karateka (circa 1984). Reading through the reply tho I see the usual responses, I'm silly for trying to play a game the way I like/want to play it, and even more silly for saying something about it. I wasn't aware I *had* to invest more money into this to simply try it out and wish I had known.

Anyone know how I go about selling my beta key or want to buy it for a friend? I'm not holding my breath for a refund.

Karateka was one of my first games too!! Oh the memories.

Ok..lets get ontopic. evilgenx, try to relax a little and tell us what you find as problematic with your control scheme. ED uses a virtual joystick approach for flying, and I think you have many options to customize the controls to your liking.

If your device does not work, register it here so that FD can support it properly. They are actively asking from us to do so, so that they can cover as many devices and controller types as possible..from one buttoned mice to 3d mice, flying yokes and writing boards...XD
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17280

In the end though, there are many players here that are playing exclusively with mouse and keyboard, and some of them are damn proficient on the job. Here are a couple of examples...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1c9I80Rsac
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJDQE3jjBCk

Please elaborate..what is the problem?