You would 100% combat log even if death meant zero loses for you (You wouldn't lose uncollected merits, combat bounds, exploration data, cargo or no insurance cost). People don't combat log because they lose stuff. Players combat log because they can't handle that they lost, their big bad ship weren't as good as they thought and their piloting skills weren't that good. Combat loggers can't handle that they made mistake or were worse and lost a fight. They don't want to admit it to themselves. They combat log just so they can feel like they didn't lose and denied the joy of win for other people.
People combat log because there's too much to lose
- Thread starter Guyflyer
- Start date
My sentiments exactly.
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No.
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Logging is against the TOS in solo too.
It's not cheating if everyone can do it. It's a level playing field. The griefers probably log occasionally too.
Having said that, it there should be incentives to not logging. Like special Pilots Federation insurance clauses which mean zero excess if destroyed by another commander. Maybe 50% cargo remaining in a private instance, along with a data beacon, so commanders can loot their own corpse to get their stuff back.
Having said that, it there should be incentives to not logging. Like special Pilots Federation insurance clauses which mean zero excess if destroyed by another commander. Maybe 50% cargo remaining in a private instance, along with a data beacon, so commanders can loot their own corpse to get their stuff back.
I'm sure a lot of people fly open for the positive experience of randomly meeting a friendly human in an otherwise empty galaxy. Why don't unsolicited PvPers go straight to CQC and save the rest of us the headache?
Or fLund and reside within their own private group where they won't have to go through the trauma of being logged on.
FD want an online game where people play together in open. This is the internet of course, a hive of villainy and unfairness since the time of Quake. As the OP rightly says, there is too much to lose. The hours of grind and high cost of things to buy is so much of a long, hard, slog of tedium to some people, that they will do anything to protect it so they don't have to do it all again. I personally believe that CL'ing against other players is a no-no in my book (regardless of their motive). I wouldn't want to spoil another player's game by CL'ing, and I don't want them to spoil my game with them being in it, so playing solo avoids the temptation to pull the plug (I think I would use the 15s quit to menu option though, since it's built into ED). NPCs however, I'd happily CL against them until the AI is fixed: their ninja-like behaviour, ship and aiming skills is ridiculous IMO.
I agree, BTW, that insurance premiums should be passed to the pirate, I also think interdiction by non-authority ships should be a crime unless you have a wanted flag. Bounty hunters would be unaffected if their target has a wanted flag. Entering a CZ or anarchy system would have no consequence, you go at your own risk.
I agree, BTW, that insurance premiums should be passed to the pirate, I also think interdiction by non-authority ships should be a crime unless you have a wanted flag. Bounty hunters would be unaffected if their target has a wanted flag. Entering a CZ or anarchy system would have no consequence, you go at your own risk.
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I wonder how many of these brave pilots would sing the same tune if they had to pay the insurance cost of the person they attack. Lets get FDev to change the rules so that the aggressor (the attacking party) is the one that pays the insurance cost and cargo cost of the victim (like in real life), as well as have the tag of murderer (and the consequences of that tag again like in real life) for the rest of their career. Would be interesting to see how many "griefers" we would have in this game and how much combat logging happens after that change. I am willing to give this system a go. You may even find that more people will play in open again.
Guyflyer, you re right. Too much to loose. It s a tricky problem.
Exactly. 95% of my interactions with players in open are civil. People forget that PvP is NOT the sole point of Open, it's just a side feature. I've played for about 700 hours so far and only been gunned down once by a player. Others have tried, but usually escape isn't a problem. Also of note, it really frustrates gankers when you escape them after being interdicted and hide in orbital cruise where they can't touch you. It's quite satisfying.
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No people combat log to escape a failure state nothing more nothing less. Whatever lame excuse they come up with is just them trying to justify them cheating the game.
I might start just to generate some salt.
The solution to this problem would be easy.
If you get destroyed by an other commander
-no insurance, you get ship back for free
-no loosing of exploration data, they should stay
-"just" loosing cargo of course, makes powerplay and CG counter still available
No changes when get destroyed by NPC
And surprisingly i would expect that 95% to 99% of players wouldn't combat log any longer
If you get destroyed by an other commander
-no insurance, you get ship back for free
-no loosing of exploration data, they should stay
-"just" loosing cargo of course, makes powerplay and CG counter still available
No changes when get destroyed by NPC
And surprisingly i would expect that 95% to 99% of players wouldn't combat log any longer
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It is as it is. The Developer like the idea that you have to be aware of the latent danger that every Psychopath and Human scam of the universe can kill you at any time for absolut no reason than his personal pleasure. And yes combat loging is an exploit.
There is a reason why many stay away of the "open" It is not just the risk of the losing value but do you really want to share the space with PvP Gankers that do not Play a Role like Pirate or whatever but which have as target to be the most psychotic ganker of the game?
I am all for PvP if it is fair but that's not what you will find in open. Not anymore. It was before SC, Enginner and certain new ppl that have an unhealthy idea of exiting PvP.
I know it sux in mind to play on a private PVE channel like Mobius because it is not an ofifcial supported channel but if you can not deal with how the game is in open you are better off to simple leave the open. Many did that step already. It wont hurt. Promised!
Thats exactly why I wouldnt feel bad for combat logging if I did it (I dont play open world so I dont have to). Its not like your value benefits them in any way. Their intention is simply to harm you as much as they can.....would you really like to play "fair" with such an individuum? Oh I get it.....they might have their reasons I m just pretty sure I would not understand them or agree to their reasoning after all.....if I have a rough day I strangely do NOT feel the compulsion to kick my dog or see someone else suffer so I can feel better.
I mean please dont give me the "RPG" excuse.
Combat logging is simply the evolutionary reaction to the unjustified attacks which risk you to lose everything or maybe a big chunk of credits /your time for nothing in return. I mean Frontier probably could fix this easy enough (just my theory....its online anyway so putting in a logout timer in open space should be an easy thing to do just like EVE does).
Of course the same mechanic gets abused by the very same people who run these attacks in the first place. Looking for a victim (note the choice of words because its not PvP they are after) and then when things dont go as they intended they simply kill the power and run away. A real player looking for PvP would stick to his guts and accept the loss...after all he got what he wanted (human adversary and risk/challenge). THATS where the abuse is IMO. Of course all of this is simply my own opinion and I dont really care what others think about it. The OP wanted to know what others think so here you have it
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People Combat Log because FD has no Idea of Balance.
An Trader Risks his Cargo as well as his Ship which on top has to be very expensive because the more Cargo you can Transport the Bigger your Ship has to be, while having extensively Reduced Combat Capacity.
An Pirate Risks only his Ship which on top can be fairly Cheap cause the Vulture one of the Best Combat Ships in the Game is rather Cheap. For a Murder he gets an Laughable Bounty worth maybe 1-3 Tons of Cargo. And he Stays entirely Combat Capable against any other Threats.
There is no Newbe Protection either which means an Anaconda can Jump onto an Sidewinder.
And there aint any limit on People either so 5 people can jump onto 1 guy if they want.
And on top NPCs Cheat they know magically where you are and can get you Interdicted where no Human would ever manage to because he cannot just cheat himself behind you.
Combat Logging currently offers an way to just Cheat Back and escape this Unfair System. So its neither an surprise nor really strange that People would use it.
If they want to get Rid of Combat Logging without losing massive amounts of Users. They would need to first make some rather Dramatic Changes to the entire System behind this.
Most of all an Proper Crime Punishment System which Gives Appropriate and Dynamic Bounties for Murder.
Giving an 5000 Credits Bounty for Killing an Ship which the other side ONLY ON INSURANCE Pays 6.000.000 Credits. And which Carried another 2.000.000 in Cargo. Is at best Laughable.
In General to get even with a Pirate who Destroyed you a Single Time. You would need to Kill him around 10 Times.
The Bounty for Murder needs to be an Dynamic Value for example 3% of the Ship + the Cargo
Which means it would be slightly Lower than the Insurance to Guarantee that this aint abused for People to kill each other and then cash in the Bounties. But high enough to actually mean something.
If you kill a Ship which had 5.000.000 of Cargo and an Value of 95.000.000 Credits you would have 3.000.000 Credits Bounty on your Head.
Worse his Bounty is only for one Local System. Which means if he makes one Jump he is Clean again.
This is another System that needs to Change. Bounties for Capital Offenses like Murder need to be Universal or Faction Wide. Not Locally limited.
This also means that if you get Killed by someone Knowing of that Bounty (Kill Warranty Scanner) he would be able to Cash in the Bounty and YOU would be required to Pay the Bounty on your Rebuy Screen if you wanted to get your Ship Back.
Till then.
People just Combat Logging wont go away.
And I doubt FD will be crazy enough to Punish it extensively. Because People which feel Treated Unfairly to begin with and then on top get Punished will Drop the Game faster than a Hot Potato.
An Trader Risks his Cargo as well as his Ship which on top has to be very expensive because the more Cargo you can Transport the Bigger your Ship has to be, while having extensively Reduced Combat Capacity.
An Pirate Risks only his Ship which on top can be fairly Cheap cause the Vulture one of the Best Combat Ships in the Game is rather Cheap. For a Murder he gets an Laughable Bounty worth maybe 1-3 Tons of Cargo. And he Stays entirely Combat Capable against any other Threats.
There is no Newbe Protection either which means an Anaconda can Jump onto an Sidewinder.
And there aint any limit on People either so 5 people can jump onto 1 guy if they want.
And on top NPCs Cheat they know magically where you are and can get you Interdicted where no Human would ever manage to because he cannot just cheat himself behind you.
Combat Logging currently offers an way to just Cheat Back and escape this Unfair System. So its neither an surprise nor really strange that People would use it.
If they want to get Rid of Combat Logging without losing massive amounts of Users. They would need to first make some rather Dramatic Changes to the entire System behind this.
Most of all an Proper Crime Punishment System which Gives Appropriate and Dynamic Bounties for Murder.
Giving an 5000 Credits Bounty for Killing an Ship which the other side ONLY ON INSURANCE Pays 6.000.000 Credits. And which Carried another 2.000.000 in Cargo. Is at best Laughable.
In General to get even with a Pirate who Destroyed you a Single Time. You would need to Kill him around 10 Times.
The Bounty for Murder needs to be an Dynamic Value for example 3% of the Ship + the Cargo
Which means it would be slightly Lower than the Insurance to Guarantee that this aint abused for People to kill each other and then cash in the Bounties. But high enough to actually mean something.
If you kill a Ship which had 5.000.000 of Cargo and an Value of 95.000.000 Credits you would have 3.000.000 Credits Bounty on your Head.
Worse his Bounty is only for one Local System. Which means if he makes one Jump he is Clean again.
This is another System that needs to Change. Bounties for Capital Offenses like Murder need to be Universal or Faction Wide. Not Locally limited.
This also means that if you get Killed by someone Knowing of that Bounty (Kill Warranty Scanner) he would be able to Cash in the Bounty and YOU would be required to Pay the Bounty on your Rebuy Screen if you wanted to get your Ship Back.
Till then.
People just Combat Logging wont go away.
And I doubt FD will be crazy enough to Punish it extensively. Because People which feel Treated Unfairly to begin with and then on top get Punished will Drop the Game faster than a Hot Potato.
This. I'd rep you +1000 if I could.Thats exactly why I wouldnt feel bad for combat logging if I did it (I dont play open world so I dont have to). Its not like your value benefits them in any way. Their intention is simply to harm you as much as they can.....would you really like to play "fair" with such an individuum? Oh I get it.....they might have their reasons I m just pretty sure I would not understand them or agree to their reasoning after all.....if I have a rough day I strangely do NOT feel the compulsion to kick my dog or see someone else suffer so I can feel better.
I mean please dont give me the "RPG" excuse.
Combat logging is simply the evolutionary reaction to the unjustified attacks which risk you to lose everything or maybe a big chunk of credits /your time for nothing in return. I mean Frontier probably could fix this easy enough (just my theory....its online anyway so putting in a logout timer in open space should be an easy thing to do just like EVE does).
Of course the same mechanic gets abused by the very same people who run these attacks in the first place. Looking for a victim (note the choice of words because its not PvP they are after) and then when things dont go as they intended they simply kill the power and run away. A real player looking for PvP would stick to his guts and accept the loss...after all he got what he wanted (human adversary and risk/challenge). THATS where the abuse is IMO. Of course all of this is simply my own opinion and I dont really care what others think about it. The OP wanted to know what others think so here you have it
Combat logging is the logical conclusion of a system where the cost of the "interaction" is
entierly on the shoulders of the victim. Yes, it is cheating, but it's perfectly understandable.
And "pirates" are not flying vultures (I have yet to meet a real pirate in one of those, or a FDL).
All the real pirates I met where flying ships able to carry cargo... like pythons and most likely clippers.
Now, if upon killing a clean CMDR in non-anarchy, the rebuy of the perp was increased by the rebuy
incured by the victim (pilot federation turning against the perp for the damage caused to the insured victim)
things would be a bit more balanced. Even more so if a fraction of said rebuy cost was returned to the
victim as compensation.
Now, in anarchy, all bets should be off and CMDR's should be on their own. Go there in a T7, get murdered, I'll shed no tear.
entierly on the shoulders of the victim. Yes, it is cheating, but it's perfectly understandable.
And "pirates" are not flying vultures (I have yet to meet a real pirate in one of those, or a FDL).
All the real pirates I met where flying ships able to carry cargo... like pythons and most likely clippers.
Now, if upon killing a clean CMDR in non-anarchy, the rebuy of the perp was increased by the rebuy
incured by the victim (pilot federation turning against the perp for the damage caused to the insured victim)
things would be a bit more balanced. Even more so if a fraction of said rebuy cost was returned to the
victim as compensation.
Now, in anarchy, all bets should be off and CMDR's should be on their own. Go there in a T7, get murdered, I'll shed no tear.
Combat logging: Getting into a fair fight or attacking a pirate who wants half your cargo, then finding you're losing and disconnecting. Bad!
Griefer logging: Getting attacked by some at who just wants to destroy you for a laugh, so you disconnect. Good! It annoys the at griefer and cost you nothing and eventually they'll get so wound up that their heads will explode. Result!
The solution to Griefers is a proper, proportionate, crime and punishment system. Having them pay your re-buy costs (by selling their ship out from under them if necessary) would be a good start.
The solution to Combat Logging is for your ship to fly straight and level for 2 minutes after you disconnect/leave, instead of the 15 seconds it is currently. If your ship is destroyed in that time, welcome to the re-buy screen. But a change to the time-out time (one I've campaigned for since the game came out) cannot be implemented until a) Griefing is punished so severely that they never want to do it again and b) FDev fix the damned server disconnects.
Griefer logging: Getting attacked by some at who just wants to destroy you for a laugh, so you disconnect. Good! It annoys the at griefer and cost you nothing and eventually they'll get so wound up that their heads will explode. Result!
The solution to Griefers is a proper, proportionate, crime and punishment system. Having them pay your re-buy costs (by selling their ship out from under them if necessary) would be a good start.
The solution to Combat Logging is for your ship to fly straight and level for 2 minutes after you disconnect/leave, instead of the 15 seconds it is currently. If your ship is destroyed in that time, welcome to the re-buy screen. But a change to the time-out time (one I've campaigned for since the game came out) cannot be implemented until a) Griefing is punished so severely that they never want to do it again and b) FDev fix the damned server disconnects.