Apart from the obvious, that we could store some item and sell at a enhanced price somewhere at some point in the future, what is it FD are so concerned with about a limited amount of in-game storage?
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Engineers STORAGE :: what is it FD are afraid of?
- Thread starter Strangepork
- Start date
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Right first time, from what has been said by the Devs previously (back to the DDF threads).
I'm not sure I understand your reply Robert, I was hoping CMDRs might be able to list some of the reasons why a limited amount storage is so dangerous?
How much CR is it really possible to make if we could store 1000 or even 5000 tons of anything?
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Concerning general commodity storage:
FD wants to prevent people hording goods and then dumping them at the right time.
I don't think FD should try to prevent this. It is a part of the real world and should be part of the Elite Universe too.
They should introduce storage costs to counter this and perhaps some sort of sales tax for anything over a certain maximum tonnage and then let the market regulate itself.
Perhaps they need to tune the mechanisms somewhat after that, but I think it will work out just fine.
They could also introduce a decay mechanism for certain goods that reduces the value of certain goods over time.
But perhaps the server load would become to high, or perhaps there is other technical stuff that might cause problems. I have no idea about that.
Concerning engineer commodity storage:
This is something completely different. This type of storage must be implemented asap.
It is necessary to repair currently crippled gameplay. People are held hostage in their freight carrying ships because of the engineer commodities and they become targets for omniscient pirates. This must change.
FD could introduce restrictions to prevent abuse:
1. Engineer commodities can only be stored at engineers.
2. Only engineer related commodities can be stored
3. Once a commodity has been stored at an engineer it is flagged and therefore can no longer be sold at a regular commodity market. You can only sell it to the engineer if you no longer want to use it to modify your ship.
4. One might even add the rule that engineer commodities can only be sold to an engineer for modest profits, or even at cost price.
Rules like this will prevent abuse.
FD wants to prevent people hording goods and then dumping them at the right time.
I don't think FD should try to prevent this. It is a part of the real world and should be part of the Elite Universe too.
They should introduce storage costs to counter this and perhaps some sort of sales tax for anything over a certain maximum tonnage and then let the market regulate itself.
Perhaps they need to tune the mechanisms somewhat after that, but I think it will work out just fine.
They could also introduce a decay mechanism for certain goods that reduces the value of certain goods over time.
But perhaps the server load would become to high, or perhaps there is other technical stuff that might cause problems. I have no idea about that.
Concerning engineer commodity storage:
This is something completely different. This type of storage must be implemented asap.
It is necessary to repair currently crippled gameplay. People are held hostage in their freight carrying ships because of the engineer commodities and they become targets for omniscient pirates. This must change.
FD could introduce restrictions to prevent abuse:
1. Engineer commodities can only be stored at engineers.
2. Only engineer related commodities can be stored
3. Once a commodity has been stored at an engineer it is flagged and therefore can no longer be sold at a regular commodity market. You can only sell it to the engineer if you no longer want to use it to modify your ship.
4. One might even add the rule that engineer commodities can only be sold to an engineer for modest profits, or even at cost price.
Rules like this will prevent abuse.
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Thanks for your reply CMDR.
I guess the key term then here becomes, "limited" (storage), given we can "hoard" 720 tons of cargo in the hold of a Cutter, what real harm or effect could having 1000 or even 5000 tons of storage space?
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I agree that it would do no harm at all.
I would be fine with only a storage for engineers related commodities.
This is absolutely fundamental to improve our gameplay experience and give us back our freedom.
What also would help to improve the experience is making pirates ignore engineer related commodities.
I stripped my Vulture to be able to carry commodities for engineer upgrades.
My Vulture is now unfit for heavy combat because of this, but as soon as I have a tonne of engineer goods on board I get attacked by numerous elite pirates in FDL, Pythons and Anacondas. This is incredibly annoying because my stripped ship is too weak to survive most of these never ending assaults.
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i don't think CR is the main thing, more minor faction influence.
give me storage for 1000T of painite, 2000T biowaste and 2000T of narcotics or unknown artifarcts, and I'll rule a system without ever leaving the station.
i personally would like that (storing influence, storing negative influence), but i can also see why FDEV don't want that.
from another thread:
imagine i could do that alone with my stored commodities (and i could, looking to the high population of that system and the low tonnage of that rare CG)
I'm beginning to think the real storage FD are afraid of, is CMDR server-side storage. hence the resistance to the storage and the limited amount of bookmarks available, ship naming etc, etc.
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Gentlemen, even 5000 tons represents less than 7 quick trips in a Cutter, then the "storage" would have to be replenished once again, is this really such a massive issue for the BGS?
If this is the case, all we have to say is you can't sell stored items at the station they are stored at, only transfer them to ship.
Then we are left with the issue of high value goods. Though I would say if you are willing to go through the time commitment of mining 5000 tons of Painite or gathering that many UA's you should have some additional influence on the BGS, or maybe get a medal or something from FDev.
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I think no storage is holding the game back.
We can store ships and ship modules, for free. Id happily pay a fee per 100t per month to be able to keep some commodities somewhere, and preferably transfer them like you can ship modules already.
The 'living galaxy back ground simulation' is a joke if it doesn't allow a basic trade thing like a warehouse.
We can store ships and ship modules, for free. Id happily pay a fee per 100t per month to be able to keep some commodities somewhere, and preferably transfer them like you can ship modules already.
The 'living galaxy back ground simulation' is a joke if it doesn't allow a basic trade thing like a warehouse.
- there are stations with no large landing pads
- there are stations far away from entry point
having storage would make manipulating these stations very easy. up to -30% influence by blackmarket sales have been reported - and we are talking about probably ~1000 T.
same goes for heavy influence push-ups with painite (pure profit -> max. effect in influence). it is a problem to mine 1000T of painite, but it is no problem to mine 1000T of painite over several weeks month.
use your second account to store another 1000T ....
can't sell them in the station? great! i'll take the surface port next to the station. etc. etc.
it would make amazing tradewars in my opinion, but i clearly see why FDEV wouldn't want that.
i'm just bringing it as an exampel, why it is more complicated than it looks.
people tend to judge problems by their own playstyle (what do i need outpost access for? who is flying to stations 50k ls away anyways? why can't i have all missions available all the time?)
Its very simple to be honest.
The Devs want to force you into using all content they create.
Hence no market place or player trading. So you have to do all jobs to get an certain item yourself.
Hence engineers which reward using all different contend by giving you overpowered stuff. And which only for that reason make sure that explorer and trader upgrades require pirating and combat while combat upgrades require mining and trade missions...
Hence no Storage so you cannot build up stocks of something so you dont need to do it again or so friends can drop it for you en masse cuz they have that job.
Hence crazy paying CGs which are more profitable than anything thus rewarding people who take whatever job they offer.
Hence removal and nerfing of any Methods which allow to aquire lots of money fast
All of this serves but one purpose.
Which is to force players into NOT playing only their favored job but play as many different jobs as possible.
Its an common mistake Devs have.
They cannot Accept that Players dont want to play certain parts of their Game so they either try to force em into doing it. Or give powercreeping rewards for them so those who dont do it will be cut off from necessary stuff.
Its the one big thing that annoys me on this Game.
They simply do not allow you to Specialize.
Which is to make sure that every player has
The Devs want to force you into using all content they create.
Hence no market place or player trading. So you have to do all jobs to get an certain item yourself.
Hence engineers which reward using all different contend by giving you overpowered stuff. And which only for that reason make sure that explorer and trader upgrades require pirating and combat while combat upgrades require mining and trade missions...
Hence no Storage so you cannot build up stocks of something so you dont need to do it again or so friends can drop it for you en masse cuz they have that job.
Hence crazy paying CGs which are more profitable than anything thus rewarding people who take whatever job they offer.
Hence removal and nerfing of any Methods which allow to aquire lots of money fast
All of this serves but one purpose.
Which is to force players into NOT playing only their favored job but play as many different jobs as possible.
Its an common mistake Devs have.
They cannot Accept that Players dont want to play certain parts of their Game so they either try to force em into doing it. Or give powercreeping rewards for them so those who dont do it will be cut off from necessary stuff.
Its the one big thing that annoys me on this Game.
They simply do not allow you to Specialize.
Which is to make sure that every player has
in my world 100t are around -7% influence in a small population system, and +5% influence. nice to have. i want this.
This does seem like great game-play to me CMDR, and another layer of complex planning and immersion also ... "Then we are left with the issue of high value goods. Though I would say if you are willing to go through the time commitment of mining 5000 tons of Painite or gathering that many UA's you should have some additional influence on the BGS, or maybe get a medal or something from FDev."
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This has always struck me as a defensive, short-sighted and ill-confident strategy on the part of FDev. They should just maybe Git Gud
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absolutely. to quote myself:
... imagine the outcry on these forums, when a lockdown in a CG is triggered by a massive sell of stored illegal commodities. or when player group influence is nuked. or when somebody "blackmails" (RPing) these forums... "I have stored 5000 unknown artifacts in sol. i'll release hell and sell them, if not...".
Basically until a way is found to do it and limit the amount of background simulation people would be able to affect, i do not think it is going to happen.
Personally I think they should offer storage at engineers only and engineer only commodities, that is generally what people want and need the stuff for, and it only being there the affect of it would be limited.
It has always bothered me the idea of tonnes even more now that they are trying to change it to units leaving the weight the same.....
1 tonne of gold would cost 38mill$ does not occupy much space, but 1 tonne is worth that much currently
So if the price of gold in game is around 9000 to 10000 credits. Thet would amount to around 250 grams of gold..................
1 tonne of gold would cost 38mill$ does not occupy much space, but 1 tonne is worth that much currently
So if the price of gold in game is around 9000 to 10000 credits. Thet would amount to around 250 grams of gold..................
I think the reason FD doesn't want commodity storage, is because it would make mining and fetch missions too easy to exploit. These missions seem to check what is in your hold and ask for something you don't already have. But if I was to store all my mined goods in a station, plus a few T9s full of everything else, I could then just sit in the station and relog fetch and mining missions for hours.
If this was a thing, I wouldn't do it, just like I didn't do Sothis poo relogging. But I guarantee that two hours after commodity storage was implimented there would be a thread about how much money could be made doing just this.
If this was a thing, I wouldn't do it, just like I didn't do Sothis poo relogging. But I guarantee that two hours after commodity storage was implimented there would be a thread about how much money could be made doing just this.
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