To Fly in Open or Not - Is Ganking/Griefing Really That Bad?

[willthebold]

I have been playing for a little over a year. I have been killed twice by players. Once when I first started out and took a potshot at a vulture hovering around the noobie planet. I had no idea what I was doing and he blew me to pieces lol. He was still there when I respawned and told me what I did and gave me some dogfighting pointers. Was very cool.

Second time I was killed was a straight mdk lol. I was flying a type 6 and had no cargo and someone in a python pulled me out and just vaped me. No words exchanged at all. No fun there but hey it happens.

Now I have been pirated 3 times in my type 6 and 7 as I was grinding up to get a python and they were all real polite and cool. Is pretty exciting when it happens and the costs for such a thing are neg. Hell one guy refused to take any mission cargo and just grabbed a few tons of gold for his trouble and flew with me the rest of the way to station even protecting me from an npc pirating attempt chatting the whole way. Wish I could remember your name good sir/ma'am but thanks again for mah immersion.

I will never be good at pvp. Not like some of you guys. I was in a pretty bad accident that left me lucky to keep my hands and my right arm in any condition so I deal with loss of function but I use my x52 ok enough to get by.

I play in open mostly but will play in a provate group with my brothers as they don't want to dea lwith open. I think that people are missing out on some of the excitement avoiding open.

 

[Spacecat]

1000+ hours, 70+ rebuys, none due to another cmdr. Almost all in open. If I do get interdicted, I just immediately high wake out, partially because I don't usually feel like dealing with it, and partially because I'm just used to doing it with npcs and it's almost an automatic procedure. But I have grd 5 dirty drives. It's gotten worse since engineers because vanilla players have no options, can't run or fight. This really just leaves them with no other option but solo or face destruction every time.

 

[Threeofseven]

Outside of CGs, and to a lesser extent engineer bases, griefing is almost never encountered.

 

[Luniticisi]

Outside of CGs, and to a lesser extent engineer bases, griefing is almost never encountered.

Once again .. Open is really cool ... If you don't want to go anywhere nice or helpful

 

[NW3]

Outside of CGs, and to a lesser extent engineer bases, griefing is almost never encountered.

So you're saying that griefing is only a problem in the places I want to visit (CGs, alien ruins) or the places I need to visit (engineers) in order to survive PvP. It doesn't matter if 99% of the galaxy has no griefing, if 99% of the places I go to are likely to have griefers.

I've only played in Open a couple of times and both times it ended badly, so I don't do that anymore. I also don't fly "paper-thin" ships; I can survive or evade nearly all NPC interdictions/battles; it's been months since my last rebuy. A trading or explorer ship is no match for engineered combat ships, especially when they appear in wings. It's not fun to get "clubbed".

 

[Threeofseven]

So you're saying that griefing is only a problem in the places I want to visit (CGs, alien ruins) or the places I need to visit (engineers) in order to survive PvP. It doesn't matter if 99% of the galaxy has no griefing, if 99% of the places I go to are likely to have griefers.

I've only played in Open a couple of times and both times it ended badly, so I don't do that anymore. I also don't fly "paper-thin" ships; I can survive or evade nearly all NPC interdictions/battles; it's been months since my last rebuy. A trading or explorer ship is no match for engineered combat ships, especially when they appear in wings. It's not fun to get "clubbed".

I almost exclusively fly open and have only met two griefers, one was at farseers and the other at a CG. Both times I had no trouble escaping. Iv visited CGs and engineers many many times without incident so I believe it's rare but maybe Iv just been lucky.

 

[TKensington]

800+ hrs, play in private with my friends. I won't go back to open after being ganked day 1. *shrugs* I don't like PvP in any game and neither do my friends.

 

[Sandmann]

Very curious to hear from the hardcore solo/private players as to why they don't fly open. Again being 100% clear I'm not judging anyone nor saying that my way is the "right" way. There is NO right way to play Elite and thank god for me no wrong (as I'd surely be getting it wrong!!)

Back in beta & gamma I played exclusively in open. When it went retail the amount of ganking went through the rood, and it increased again after release on xbox. I now play exclusively in mobius.

For me, it's not about the numbers... I don't care if I get killed once a month or once an hour - which is WHY I played in open originally. What I care about is the senselessness of it and the lack of consequence for it. I don't play elite to be in an arena where the goal is "shoot other players". I play elite to fly in a reasonably plausible galaxy. The whole "I gonna shoot everyone I see" attitude and lack of significant consequence for doing so is inconsistent with the fantasy of a plausible, functioning galaxy so I choose to avoid open until and unless FDev give us a law and order system such that a player needs to consider ganking me is "worth it", which means they need a better reason than the fact that I have a heartbeat to shoot me.

TL;DR I don't mind being killed for a good reason if my murderer has reasonable consequences, but I have no interest in being thrill kill content for a pvp pewpew boy.

 

[Exigeous]

First I updated my original post with corrected math, I had a huge typo in my numbers that a few pointed out and I fixed. Odd with so much conversation that only 2 saw my error, sorta tells me that many didn't read it and think about the points I made but rather came here to say the same things they've said forever. I'm actually rather impressed that the conversation has stayed very civil and while there are 2 "sides" and those don't agree with each other we've not gotten into any flame wars.

How do you get those numbers? 5 deaths, 2,5 minute each that Thats 12.5 minutes of death. Which accumulates to 0,05208% of your playtime.

Ugh, I not good number don' maff stuff, me getz confuzeded wen mez haf to beeee cowenten

So yeah, that means instead of 1.6% of my time was dying it's really 0.05%, WAY lower than I even posted.

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The last time I played in Open (probably over a year ago) I was killed by a much larger, heavily armed ship, with no request to drop cargo or any other message. I lost 2-3 weeks of earned credits and was left with barely enough credits for 1 more rebuy. This is no fun, so I stopped playing Open.

It's a shame that after one bad experience over a year ago keeps you from playing in open. I absolutely agree that it sucked to get killed by anyone, NPC or commander. When I'm working with new players I make sure they know to never fly without *at least* 2 rebuys in cash and, as a new player it really should be 4-5 minimum. Noobs are going to die much more often than a veteran, not because of our ships/weapons but because we know how to stay safe and when not to shoot, specifically when say bounty hunting at a RES. I bet it's been at least 10 times where I was hunting with someone and they got wanted and died. They either shoot before their scanner knows the target is wanted or they hit system authority with stray shots.

So if you're basing your game play on something that happened once over a year before it seems you're being fairly closed minded about it and I'd encourage you to give it another try. That said I've stated many times that you should play the way that you enjoy most, if that's solo then fantastic, have a great time.

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...using this kind of ratio logic is really dangerous...

- the total time spent by woman not being "assaulted*"/time spent being "assaulted*" on a large scale proves that it is a non problem.
- Siria is currently a safe place, time spent living there not being shot at is a far greater than time spent being shot at.

You're kidding me, right? Are you seriously trying to compare ANYTHING that happens in a video game to a very serious criminal felony action? Of all the absurd comparisons I've seen and FUD I've read this has to take the cake.

one single grief is already one grief over the tolerable limit. Just like some people have zero tollerance to cheating (ingame/irl), some players have zero tolerance to griefing, and by extension, for "griefing friendly environment" like ED open currently is.

I fully agree that everyone has a right to play exactly how they want. If someone's tolerance to griefing/ganking is zero then no problem, they should play in solo. I'm certainly not going to judge them in any way for that. I may adamantly disagree but who would I be to suggest someone should play the way I do? For me however one bad experience in a game like this, especially when that is such an insanely small amount of the time isn't going to change my gameplay.

To take that to a little extreme, like your post but far more realistic, it's like terrorism. If we get scared, change our laws and give up our freedoms to feel safe the terrorists have won in a small way. Their actions were able to fundamentally change our behavior. Elite is similar, if you don't play in open because of their actions they are "winning".

Now what you are trying to do is show PVEers that their reason to not go to Open are absurd, a lot of pro "Open and nothing else" advocate are doing so daily in the forum and the only visible effect is to radicalize pve players even more.

I hope by "you" you aren't referring to me, OP. While personally I think the reasons stated here are "wrong" I've never once said someone is absurd for not playing open. I'd never say anyone is absurd/wrong for the way they choose to play, even when that differs a great deal from me. Who am I to tell them how to spend their time? The only thing I will say should never happen is combat logging. That's outside the term of service/gameplay set forth by Frontier. As such it is "wrong", period.

 

[Mohrgan]

First I updated my original post with corrected math, I had a huge typo in my numbers that a few pointed out and I fixed. Odd with so much conversation that only 2 saw my error, sorta tells me that many didn't read it and think about the points I made but rather came here to say the same things they've said forever. I'm actually rather impressed that the conversation has stayed very civil and while there are 2 "sides" and those don't agree with each other we've not gotten into any flame wars.



Ugh, I not good number don' maff stuff, me getz confuzeded wen mez haf to beeee cowenten

So yeah, that means instead of 1.6% of my time was dying it's really 0.05%, WAY lower than I even posted.

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It's a shame that after one bad experience over a year ago keeps you from playing in open. I absolutely agree that it sucked to get killed by anyone, NPC or commander. When I'm working with new players I make sure they know to never fly without *at least* 2 rebuys in cash and, as a new player it really should be 4-5 minimum. Noobs are going to die much more often than a veteran, not because of our ships/weapons but because we know how to stay safe and when not to shoot, specifically when say bounty hunting at a RES. I bet it's been at least 10 times where I was hunting with someone and they got wanted and died. They either shoot before their scanner knows the target is wanted or they hit system authority with stray shots.

So if you're basing your game play on something that happened once over a year before it seems you're being fairly closed minded about it and I'd encourage you to give it another try. That said I've stated many times that you should play the way that you enjoy most, if that's solo then fantastic, have a great time.

-----------------



You're kidding me, right? Are you seriously trying to compare ANYTHING that happens in a video game to a very serious criminal felony action? Of all the absurd comparisons I've seen and FUD I've read this has to take the cake.



I fully agree that everyone has a right to play exactly how they want. If someone's tolerance to griefing/ganking is zero then no problem, they should play in solo. I'm certainly not going to judge them in any way for that. I may adamantly disagree but who would I be to suggest someone should play the way I do? For me however one bad experience in a game like this, especially when that is such an insanely small amount of the time isn't going to change my gameplay.

To take that to a little extreme, like your post but far more realistic, it's like terrorism. If we get scared, change our laws and give up our freedoms to feel safe the terrorists have won in a small way. Their actions were able to fundamentally change our behavior. Elite is similar, if you don't play in open because of their actions they are "winning".



I hope by "you" you aren't referring to me, OP. While personally I think the reasons stated here are "wrong" I've never once said someone is absurd for not playing open. I'd never say anyone is absurd/wrong for the way they choose to play, even when that differs a great deal from me. Who am I to tell them how to spend their time? The only thing I will say should never happen is combat logging. That's outside the term of service/gameplay set forth by Frontier. As such it is "wrong", period.

Why should it be a shame that, for any reason, someone doesn't use open? While you reiterate that people have the right to play any way they want, you drop in, quite condescendingly, that it's wrong to just give so much credence to a one time experience. It's really tiring to have to mention that open is just one of three options for modes. Would you have that opinion if someone posted how one visit to open has made him/her decide to only play in open now?

Just another attempt to de-legitimize how people people play. Done in the guise of understanding and tolerance.

 

[Maelkhor]

You're kidding me, right? Are you seriously trying to compare ANYTHING that happens in a video game to a very serious criminal felony action? Of all the absurd comparisons I've seen and FUD I've read this has to take the cake.

I'm not comparing video games vs real world, but pointing out how the time ratio argument is a biased one by using extrem case were it become more easily apparent (reductio ad absurdum), an IRL logical fallacy doesn't suddenly become valid when applied to gaming. It worked somehow, as you clearly saw how absurd my argument was, although it was just using the exact same logic as yours.


If you don't get the point I could do an IG , ED specific , comparison:

Let's calculate the following ratio: time playing in open vs time lost by being combat logged.

One could easily gives some (personal, as you did to make your own point) small numbers and conclude that, in the end, combat logging is a non issue because it accounts for (magic number ahead) 0.05%,1%,2% (who cares) of their in game time : TADAH, --> ergo , combat logging is not a problem. (this is an illustration that doesn't reflect my own POV about cheating in general or combat logging in particular)

I hope by "you" you aren't referring to me, OP. While personally I think the reasons stated here are "wrong" I've never once said someone is absurd for not playing open. I'd never say anyone is absurd/wrong for the way they choose to play, even when that differs a great deal from me. Who am I to tell them how to spend their time? The only thing I will say should never happen is combat logging. That's outside the term of service/gameplay set forth by Frontier. As such it is "wrong", period.

A message is not only defined by its verbal content (formal), the same phrase can be interpreted totally differently depending on informal data like body language, or, in this case, context.

In the current forum context, you create a thread (yet another) whose title and content implies that the current main PVE argument for an open play server (open is griefer heaven) is irrelevant (griefing is not that bad).

So my turn to ask a question, why would you do that ? the PVE players reasons you are asking for, are literraly all over the first page of this sub, argued over and over in many similar threads of 40+ pages long?
--Update
I'll get back to the previous paragraph example :

Imagine me, in the current context, creating a thread like this :
"Is combat logging really that bad?"

Then using a time ratio demonstration showing that combat logging affected less than (2%,1%,0.05%) of my gaming time.
Then asking "To all the people asking for FD ot make combat logging the n°1 issue to solve (like open pve, a very heated subject currently), why you do this? combat logging is not that bad, but i respect your opinion, i just don't get it"

Then expect people not to overreact in the current context

 

[Sandmann]

First I updated my original post with corrected math, I had a huge typo in my numbers that a few pointed out and I fixed. Odd with so much conversation that only 2 saw my error, sorta tells me that many didn't read it and think about the points I made but rather came here to say the same things they've said forever. I'm actually rather impressed that the conversation has stayed very civil and while there are 2 "sides" and those don't agree with each other we've not gotten into any flame wars.

I'm quite happy to admit that I didn't do much more than glance at your figures, because they're irrelevant. Your argument revolves around some questonable math to attempt to restate the whole "ganking isn't as bad as you think it is so there's no need to be scared of open" position. This just shows that you - like many other PvPers - simply HAVEN'T LISTENED. You complain that rather than considering your figures we have just said the same things, and that is because THOSE THINGS ARE THE REASONS WE DON'T PLAY IN OPEN. It's got nothing to do with how bad it is or isn't... for some of us we just don't PvP, for others ANY existence of ganking is too much. I'm one of the latter group. I don't mind a fair fight when convenient, but when someone in a much higher specced machine than mine disrupts my PvE gaming and forces me to rebuy for their jollies and at no cost to them I'M NOT HAVING FUN and I play to have fun, not to provide some little sadist the oppourtunity to bully a weaker opponent.

It doesn't matter if you can prove mathematically that there's only a 1% chance of a gank per hour, WE DON'T PLAY TO BE GANKED AT ALL. Ganking ONLY occurs because of insufficient consequences... it's all reward and zero risk for the ganker, and while it remains thus nothing will change. Imagine an advertising campaign like "Come visit New York City. You WILL get mugged but only twice a week, and we won't do anything to stop the muggings." That is what all the constant exortations to "come to open so I can shoot you" sound like. Uhh no thanks.

 

[rrobes]

I play in solo almost exclusively. The only time I played in open was during a recent very highly attended CG.

During that brief time, I was attacked one on one twice and set upon by a wing who caused me a 19 mill rebuy to my cargo rigged ship. I had no bounty so I wasn't worth anything to anybody.

Statistics can be deceiving, particularly to those who have incurred the losses. That FD has encouraged senseless killing, there is no doubt in my mind, if their unresponsiveness to doing anything about C&P is an indicator. Random killing is easy, prevention is difficult (unless you CL which I could have easily done and in retrospect, maybe I should have) and punishment laughable.

Solo.

 

[Kubicide]

The only thing I will say should never happen is combat logging. That's outside the term of service/gameplay set forth by Frontier. As such it is "wrong", period.

Can you take a few minutes and point out exactly where this rule is in the EULA? Here's a clue to help save you time: there isn't one. I keep running across this statement of a rule being broken blah blah but it's yet another forum-crafted statement in the same camp as the ten year plan. There's no question that combat logging is not nice and is not good sportsmanship. But that's it. It's not "illegal" or breaking any rules as much folks wish it was.

(Also, I bet you fly an FdL in open right? Or maybe a Anaconda, Vette or Cutter. Pretty certain you don't fly around happily in a T7. That's partly the point here that seems to be missed by many. Open is not that bad when flying the meta-build PvP ships. Fly anything else and you're either lucky, out exploring or dead.)

 

[Exigeous]

Why should it be a shame that, for any reason, someone doesn't use open? While you reiterate that people have the right to play any way they want, you drop in, quite condescendingly, that it's wrong to just give so much credence to a one time experience. It's really tiring to have to mention that open is just one of three options for modes. Would you have that opinion if someone posted how one visit to open has made him/her decide to only play in open now?

Just another attempt to de-legitimize how people people play. Done in the guise of understanding and tolerance.

Wow, talk about putting words in my mouth - please don't do that again, I'm perfectly capable of stating my own opinions, something I've done here multiple times and in a VERY consistent way.

So here I go again - I've always said, and said it many many times, that everyone has the right to play how they want. This is supposed to be fun and as such everyone has different opinions on what fun is. We clearly all agree that playing Elite is fun. You might watch football for fun, I have zero interest in that. Neither of us are wrong or write, those are completely subjective opinions and that is and should be 100% fine. When I say it's a shame that someone doesn't play in open due to a bad experience, or really for any reason, that's because it's my opinion that open is far more fun and exciting than just playing alone in solo. That's my opinion, may I right? Of course not. Am I wrong, again of course not.

THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG IN THE WAY YOU PLAY ELITE UNLESS YOU EXPLOIT.

With that it's also my opinion, and right to have the opinion, that those who aren't playing in open are missing out on some very cool things in the game. From winging up with others, to getting pirated (not killed/ganked, pirated), to simply sending another commander a salute making you realize we are playing in a huge sandbox galaxy. Personally I almost exclusively play multiplayer games where at a minimum I can chat with, if not directly play with, others. That's what I find fun. If you enjoy single player games that's fantastic, I'm glad that Elite has that mode so you can enjoy it too.

This notion that someone would judge another for the way they play is just idiotic to me. Whether that person is a hunter/killer, trader, pirate, bounty hunter, explorer, miner, etc. etc. Any play style not expressly forbidden by Frontier is absolutely fair game. Again exploiting/combat logging should never be tolerated, in the same way that vulgar language in either chat or voice-comms shouldn't be tolerated.

So next time when you have the need to attack others to legitimize your game play stop for a second and actually read what they've written. Going from "it's a shame" to "you judgmental a-hole" is ridiculous in the extreme.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Depends a lot on how you play.

I don't look at it in terms of credits, i look at it in terms of time.

Last time i was killed by a player, there was no comms, no "interaction", no fun. Just dead in 5 seconds. It set me back about 6 hours of play time.

That was the last time i played in open.

 

[DarkWalker]

IMHO I'd gladly have 1.6% of my time be getting killed as the excitement and risk it adds FAR outweigh any negatives to me.

Key words, "to me".

I, on the other hand, find the possibility of adversarial human interaction to be merely frustrating, something that just makes the whole experience worse, with no upside whatsoever.

Is there any feature that would get you to play open/multiplayer?

Multiplayer per see isn't an issue. All other things being equal, and multiplayer being available without the need to pre-assemble a group, I tend to prefer multiplayer.
Open, though... The only way to get me willingly into Open is to give me a way to completely avoid PvP in it without any downsides. And I do mean completely; even having just 0.05% of the time spent in PvP, and less than 2% of my resources lost to it, is unacceptable for me. If Frontier ever manages to get me into Open otherwise — say, by offering any reward bonuses in it — it will likely be with a combat log macro ready to fire and a hardware lag switch as a failsafe.

 

[Exigeous]

Wow, has this thread gone off the rails to idiocy. Rather than go point by point with the idiocy posted above let me just state a few things.

Never once I have said nor meant to imply that any play style in Elite is "wrong". This is a game folks, we play it for fun. I'm not passing judgment on how people play, why on Earth would I? I get to have the opinion that I find open is more fun and as such I'd encourage others to give it a try if they haven't or if it's been a long time. There are several that after thinking about it believe the few negatives of open are so small that they want to give it another try.

As for me using my numbers/examples, blah blah blah what else should I use? I can only draw from my own experiences. When I've gotten killed it in no way upset me, why would I let a game upset me? If I then I should probably play or do something else. Many choose to play in solo/private as they do get upset and THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. I personally think it's silly to get mad/upset over a game but that's only my opinion. I really enjoy the added aspects that open brings so why shouldn't I share that with others and encourage them to see what they think?

Maybe you guys should also go back and read the subject of my post - I asked a question. I didn't say one was right/better and one wrong/worse. Hell in my first post I asked to hear from solo players as I'm curious about their experiences. As for the numbers I posted being irrelevant I'm sorry simple facts are hard for you. Many have said the risks of open have been grossly exaggerated, in my experiences I absolutely agree. While discussing this with friends someone asked "I wonder how much game time I've spent being ganked?" I was curious so I did some simply math around my experiences. Again *MY* experiences not yours/everyone. If the simple facts around my experience bother you then I ask you to post your own. How many hours have you played, how many times have you been ganked and how many credits have you lost? I'm genuinely curious, again that's why I started this thread.

Recently in a different tread on Reddit about piracy someone made the comment "you just want to waste my time so you can have fun". While I understand that to a degree I pointed out to him what a tiny *tiny* amount of his time I was taking. I asked "during the 2 minutes of time I interdict and scanned you were you excited or bored?" More than half of the guys that I interdict are extremely friendly and we have nice short chats with each other. About 25% of those that I chat with comment that they actually enjoy being pirated (pirated, not ganked) as it adds some fun role playing and excitement to an otherwise slow/boring trade run.

As for combat logging being a violation I suppose I'm "wrong" that it's not written in some huge document that no one reads anyway. What I meant, and I'm sure all but a tiny few understood, is that Frontier has expressly said that combat logging is an exploit, it should be reported and they will take appropriate actions. Yes yes, we've all seen the story about the investigation they didn't do - that doesn't change the fact that combat logging is unacceptable. IMHO (and that means MY opinion) combat logging is the worst etiquette one can exhibit in game. IMHO there is ZERO justification for combat loggin. If you're coming home with weeks/months of exploration data and you aren't smart enough to go in solo or get an escort you made that mistake, not the attacker. I absolutely think ganking/killing a commander for no reason is absolutely a move. 100%. IMHO the notion that you can't fly completely safely in open hugely exaggerated. There are many things you can do to protect yourself. Remember that in solo/private you could still get killed by a wing of NPCs. You're in an explorer-conda and get interdicted by 2 condas and a Cobra. They mass lock you and open fire, very quickly you'd likely be dead. Are you going to scream the NPCs and rage quit? Well maybe but should you? Of course a commander is going to be a harder to avoid/win than an NPC. It's sorta like this - let's say you go to work and leave your house totally unlocked. You come home and everything is gone. Of course the thieves should be arrested and convicted but don't you deserve a little blame for not protecting yourself? I'll again say I think the penalties in game for killing a commander should be extremely sever and they aren't. Once you've committed murder every system authority ship in the system should come down on you like a ton of bricks, over and over, until they kill you or you just have to leave. If you come back in the 7 day bounty period it should happen again, and hell it should happen in all systems for that super power. Kill someone in Hudson space and every agent in Hudson space should be out to get you.

Being clear again I'm not trying to justify one play style over another. If you enjoy playing Elite in solo fantastic, I'm glad to hear you enjoy Elite as I do, I hope you'll join me/us in Discord so we can chat. If you enjoy playing in open that's awesome too, feel free to send me a wing invite and we can meet up and do something fun.

Let's all try not to fall into the trap of judging one play style over the other. Let's not think our way is the best way. It isn't. I look forward to more sharing their stories around open/solo as much of the conversation has been interesting and intelligently shared. I hope that can continue.

~X

 

[rrobes]

The justification of an action that is decried by many players will not gain traction.

Using the EULA, CL, emergent game play, excitement, player rights, etc. to uphold the dubious banner of ganking/griefing has become a worn-out argument.

A gank/grief lasts seconds in many cases, it's not players consensually meeting in the tilting field, running their coursers and engaging in knightly battle. It is an ambush, usually by superior numbers on lesser opponents, with one-sided enjoyment.

Yes, you are right, it is a vid and shouldn't be confused w/ RL. But to many w/ a short time to play, to see their hours of effort wiped out in literally seconds, your justifications are hollow and meaningless, it does affect RL.

These arguments aren't going to be resolved, strong feelings abound. But the gank/grief supporters/players are in the minority and likely to remain there.

 

[Oogie Boogie]

It is really interesting and also funny to read those PvE/PvP threads here. And it feels always like a cat and a dog were pushed in to the same room. Now the cat or dog is complaining why the other is in the same room. Just to see the other makes them crazy.

But like in the real world most of the time in RL they just ignore each other and enjoy the same room in their way. But of course now and then (but not very often) both get a scratch by having a little fight.

Whatever gameplay you chose to play - enjoy it! It's a really great game!