Griefing & Piracy Solution Mega Thread

[Galactic Fork]

My dream for piracy will never happen, but it's fun to imagine!

Permanent(ish) Pirate status. Even after you die, you're still a pirate. You aren't a part of the Pilots Federation anymore, but have a pirate ranking similar(ish) to Pilots Federation ranking.

Effects of being an official pirate:

• 1) Authority Vessels in Medium and High security systems very aggessive.
• 2) Stations in High and Medium security systems will not let you dock (there may be independent systems controlled by pirate friendly factions of course). (Additional aggressiveness based on pirate rank\fame).
• 3) Goods released voluntarily from cargo bays after an interdiction get a pirated flag.
• 4) Goods dropped involuntarily during combat\destruction also get a pirated flag.

Benefits of being a pirate:

• 1) You will have access to pirate den stations\systems. Some require a certain rank to access (either like a permit requirement, or ships will be hostile if you don't have it (especially more hostile if you have a pirate hunter rep).
• 2) I'd like to see hidden\stealth stations that don't come up on system maps, and discovery scanners can't find them. You can only find them when informed by the pirate network (or by following a pirate out of supercruise, (but that'll get you shot to bits by the station's guards)).
• 3) Pirate friendly stations in general will not need a black market to sell pirated goods, but there will be a dip in profit.
• 4) In addition to missions, there will be a rumor mill that will inform you of nearby umm opportunities.
  • a) Expensive goods convoys that will be going by a particular star system.
  • b) A secret mining operation.
  • c) This may include other player missions if it can be implemented.

Pirate ranking:

• 1) Pirate Rank is based on bounty\reputation. When you are killed, your pirate rank and bounty drop. The higher the rank you are, the more devastating the drop, any benefits from rank are revoked.
• 2) Reputation determines buy back %, the higher the rank the lower the percentage, so the lower the rank, the more you have to pay each time you die.
• 3) Ranking is increased by pirating. More threatening the situation the bigger the increase. Threat is determined by weapons/armor difference of enemies you're fighting. This means a pirate using a weaker ship against stronger enemies and winning will gain reputation faster.
• 4) The [pirated] flag of goods involuntarily dropped has a threat stat attached, so goods sold from that battle, also increase reputation.

Benefits of higher rank:

• 1) Because you are a well known respected pirate (well, among filthy rotten pirates anyway), the dip in selling rate of stolen goods is smaller.
• 2) Access to much better rumors.
• 3) Access to better illegal modules.
• 4) Access to more prestigious pirate dens.
• 5) More frequent surrenders without needing to fight.

Downsides to a higher rank:

• 1) Bounty hunters want the prestige of taking out your ship.
• 2) If your ship is destroyed, your ranking drops dramatically. If illegal modules are above your new rank, you will not get them back. Stored illegal modules will withheld, and any stored ships with illegal modules above your rank will have them removed. (RP wise, people won't respect you as much and see no problem stealing them...)
• 3) Higher chance rumors are traps.

Player Murdering\Pirating:

• 1) Murdering a player will add a price you have to pay after your ship is destroyed independent of your pirate buyback.
  • a) This is determined by threat difference between your ship and your victim (not just different buy back, but armor, weapons power, stuff like that).
  • b) Happens no matter what ship you're in. Even if you use a sidewinder to kill yourself, the same cost will be applied (pirate rank drop also applies).
  • 2) Murdering a player will add an drop to your pirate ranking as when you are killed on top of what you lose just by being killed.
• 3) Any goods dropped voluntarily after an interdiction get a [Pirated] flag, but of a different color. These have a "threat" stat determined by how much more powerful the pirate is. When sold, these add to your Player Pirating price, but much less than killing them does.
• 4) Any goods dropped involuntarily get a [Pirated] flag, but of a different color. These have a "threat" stat determined by how much more powerful the pirate is. If the other player is destroyed, this threat stat is removed from the goods, and only the price from the PK is added.
• 5) Player members of the Pilots Federation who kill a wanted pirate get a portion of the Player Pirate paid by the pirate.

Illegal Modules:
Because you are a filthy criminal, you don't have to worry about laws that say what modules you can't load on your ship. This can pave the way to subtypes of pirates.

• 1) Module damaging weapons: These illegal weapons are supposed to only be for law enforcement, but criminals have gotten them as well, allowing the pirate to disable systems, leaving the ship dead in the water.
• 2) Identity spoofing: To get around security in some systems, you can set up a false identity to make quick runs in Medium or High security. Acts of aggression disable it, and there is a slight chance scanners will see through it. (high rank required)
• 3) Cargo bay with container hacking: Goods stored in this container are stripped of their pirated flag and can be sold at market value. (very high rank required)
• 4) Module stripper: Only legal for licensed salvaging firms, but pirates got their hands on them for more sinister usages. After disabling a ship, this module allows you to strip some modules. What you can carry is determined by tonnage allowed by the stripper (also acts as a cargo bay for a stolen module).
  • a) Stripped modules can be sold on the black market. Engineered mods will get a higher price.
  • b) Stripped modules can be attached to your ship (also at a chopshop), but they are flagged as illegal... Identity spoofer cannot hide existence stolen modules.
• 5) Ship Towing module: Only allowed legally by licensed tow companies, these modules allow for hooking onto and towing it. It boosts your FSD to allow the ship to join you into hyperspace and supercruise.
  • a)Ships can be sold only to stations with ship chop shops.
  • b)Ship being towed hinders control (duh) and slower even in supercruise(assuming that's possible).
  • c)In supercruise, the ships are very visible and obvious, easy targets. Can't avoid interdiction.

Way out of piracy:
If you tire of the pirate life and want to go legit, you can purchase new false identification and reentry into the pilots federation. Cost is based on pirate reputation and Player Pirating price. Once it's paid, you can choose a new visible pilot name (your login will still be your real commander name, but others will see your new identity).

 

[Mephane]

You're looking for problems in a better idea then yours, but this wont help your bad idea be better... you're a selfish people and need to seek help.

*record scratch noise*

Woah, slow down there. Just because the OP has a very, very flawed idea doesn't mean that he is selfish or "needs [psychological] help".

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

My dream for piracy will never happen, but it's fun to imagine!

Permanent(ish) Pirate status. Even after you die, you're still a pirate. You aren't a part of the Pilots Federation anymore, but have a pirate ranking similar(ish) to Pilots Federation ranking.

Effects of being an official pirate:

• 1) Authority Vessels in Medium and High security systems very aggessive.
• 2) Stations in High and Medium security systems will not let you dock (there may be independent systems controlled by pirate friendly factions of course). (Additional aggressiveness based on pirate rank\fame).
• 3) Goods released voluntarily from cargo bays after an interdiction get a pirated flag.
• 4) Goods dropped involuntarily during combat\destruction also get a pirated flag.

Benefits of being a pirate:

• 1) You will have access to pirate den stations\systems. Some require a certain rank to access (either like a permit requirement, or ships will be hostile if you don't have it (especially more hostile if you have a pirate hunter rep).
• 2) I'd like to see hidden\stealth stations that don't come up on system maps, and discovery scanners can't find them. You can only find them when informed by the pirate network (or by following a pirate out of supercruise, (but that'll get you shot to bits by the station's guards)).
• 3) Pirate friendly stations in general will not need a black market to sell pirated goods, but there will be a dip in profit.
• 4) In addition to missions, there will be a rumor mill that will inform you of nearby umm opportunities.
  • a) Expensive goods convoys that will be going by a particular star system.
  • b) A secret mining operation.
  • c) This may include other player missions if it can be implemented.

Pirate ranking:

• 1) Pirate Rank is based on bounty\reputation. When you are killed, your pirate rank and bounty drop. The higher the rank you are, the more devastating the drop, any benefits from rank are revoked.
• 2) Reputation determines buy back %, the higher the rank the lower the percentage, so the lower the rank, the more you have to pay each time you die.
• 3) Ranking is increased by pirating. More threatening the situation the bigger the increase. Threat is determined by weapons/armor difference of enemies you're fighting. This means a pirate using a weaker ship against stronger enemies and winning will gain reputation faster.
• 4) The [pirated] flag of goods involuntarily dropped has a threat stat attached, so goods sold from that battle, also increase reputation.

Benefits of higher rank:

• 1) Because you are a well known respected pirate (well, among filthy rotten pirates anyway), the dip in selling rate of stolen goods is smaller.
• 2) Access to much better rumors.
• 3) Access to better illegal modules.
• 4) Access to more prestigious pirate dens.
• 5) More frequent surrenders without needing to fight.

Downsides to a higher rank:

• 1) Bounty hunters want the prestige of taking out your ship.
• 2) If your ship is destroyed, your ranking drops dramatically. If illegal modules are above your new rank, you will not get them back. Stored illegal modules will withheld, and any stored ships with illegal modules above your rank will have them removed. (RP wise, people won't respect you as much and see no problem stealing them...)
• 3) Higher chance rumors are traps.

Player Murdering\Pirating:

• 1) Murdering a player will add a price you have to pay after your ship is destroyed independent of your pirate buyback.
  • a) This is determined by threat difference between your ship and your victim (not just different buy back, but armor, weapons power, stuff like that).
  • b) Happens no matter what ship you're in. Even if you use a sidewinder to kill yourself, the same cost will be applied (pirate rank drop also applies).
  • 2) Murdering a player will add an drop to your pirate ranking as when you are killed on top of what you lose just by being killed.
• 3) Any goods dropped voluntarily after an interdiction get a [Pirated] flag, but of a different color. These have a "threat" stat determined by how much more powerful the pirate is. When sold, these add to your Player Pirating price, but much less than killing them does.
• 4) Any goods dropped involuntarily get a [Pirated] flag, but of a different color. These have a "threat" stat determined by how much more powerful the pirate is. If the other player is destroyed, this threat stat is removed from the goods, and only the price from the PK is added.
• 5) Player members of the Pilots Federation who kill a wanted pirate get a portion of the Player Pirate paid by the pirate.

Illegal Modules:
Because you are a filthy criminal, you don't have to worry about laws that say what modules you can't load on your ship. This can pave the way to subtypes of pirates.

• 1) Module damaging weapons: These illegal weapons are supposed to only be for law enforcement, but criminals have gotten them as well, allowing the pirate to disable systems, leaving the ship dead in the water.
• 2) Identity spoofing: To get around security in some systems, you can set up a false identity to make quick runs in Medium or High security. Acts of aggression disable it, and there is a slight chance scanners will see through it. (high rank required)
• 3) Cargo bay with container hacking: Goods stored in this container are stripped of their pirated flag and can be sold at market value. (very high rank required)
• 4) Module stripper: Only legal for licensed salvaging firms, but pirates got their hands on them for more sinister usages. After disabling a ship, this module allows you to strip some modules. What you can carry is determined by tonnage allowed by the stripper (also acts as a cargo bay for a stolen module).
  • a) Stripped modules can be sold on the black market. Engineered mods will get a higher price.
  • b) Stripped modules can be attached to your ship (also at a chopshop), but they are flagged as illegal... Identity spoofer cannot hide existence stolen modules.
• 5) Ship Towing module: Only allowed legally by licensed tow companies, these modules allow for hooking onto and towing it. It boosts your FSD to allow the ship to join you into hyperspace and supercruise.
  • a)Ships can be sold only to stations with ship chop shops.
  • b)Ship being towed hinders control (duh) and slower even in supercruise(assuming that's possible).
  • c)In supercruise, the ships are very visible and obvious, easy targets. Can't avoid interdiction.

Way out of piracy:
If you tire of the pirate life and want to go legit, you can purchase new false identification and reentry into the pilots federation. Cost is based on pirate reputation and Player Pirating price. Once it's paid, you can choose a new visible pilot name (your login will still be your real commander name, but others will see your new identity).

Thank you very much for your constructive ideas +1 rep!

I especially like the murder mechanic when it comes to ship destruction - murderer pays nothing, but will lose a considerable amount of credits should they die and have committed enough murders.

I'll wait and see if more people add some more ideas and then update the thread again later.

I will be adjusting the "Homicide" penalties so that they are not so "punishing". As it stands by the poll, 60% of voters think the penalties are too steep if that is how it would be released because of "accidental" murders.

Thanks again for your positive input makes a nice change.

 

[Deadspin]

This boils down to perspective, really, doesn't it.

You may not think it is griefing by flying around finding random pilots to kill is griefing, but the poor guy you just destroyed feels that way. He is playing in Open, he understands the risks to piracy - but to outright murder for no good reason? Other than the person who killed him "Can do it" so he "Is doing it". Chances are, he will never truly understand why it happened - he was probably never even communicated to.

People have argued for a better Crime and Punishment system - I have wrote 3,300+ words on a solution for it.

You have the audacity to argue that I don't read your posts, but the first thing you declared in this thread was that you "stopped at Homicide".

Good one. Nice, fair analysis of my thread.

If you don't like it, vote, move on. It is utterly fruitless to argue with me when I'm only suggesting solutions for the current problems that many people feel are an issue in this game.

This doesn't boil down to perspective. This boils down to using your education to understand that you cannot stretch the definition of a word to suit your own purposes in this instance. When griefing happened in this game, Frontier commented on it. I'm sure it happens in more isolated cases but those are likely few and far between given the sheer number of players combined with the number of systems available to us and the fact that p2p blows goats. Harassment happens in this game and it happens quite frequently, but it's also a video game, online. If you can't handle a bit of harassment on the internet then, well, maybe you shouldn't be on the internet (royal you, not you specifically).

You wrote a 3,000+ word diatribe that was fatally flawed from the first paragraph in.

You can't handle proper constructive criticism and it shows in every negative reply you've handed out since page 2. So here, here are some more replies that were generally unanswered that tend to reflect the same opinion I share.

Personally I think it's too far.

I have a similar idea but it's all about contextualizing the behavior WITHOUT alienating the player base. To this end I think that the C&P needs to be balanced by the opportunity to actually carve out a career from the behavior..

That bolded bit is probably the most important piece of advice you could take away from any reply in this thread.

Sorry but your solutions are a joke, as a pirate most of the things you trying to give us would only dumb down the piracy....

Some of it I like, some of it I really don't.

I really don't have time to explain which is which, but basically, in some cases your adding what seem like convoluted mechanics that completely ruin the games pacing which make me wonder how much you've been involved in piracy on either side of it.

You didn't specify, but I'm guessing a double no cancels the homicide flag. Not a big fan however of putting these decisions into players hands that potentially could result in financial liability for another. I don't trust other players that much. It opens more opportunity for exploits and griefing.

The rebuy screen questions rely on player honesty and would appear to be the best way for people to abuse the system.

Im sorry but your idea of justice seems insane. Althrough i think the crime&law system have to be reviewed, Dont you think maybe are you paing any frustation pvp experiencie with whole pvp comunity¿?

I´m a pirate, i like to live dangerously but i have no doubt that you are going to far with this.

While I truly want a solution to the problem of murdering commanders, I'm not sure the OP's suggestion is the right solution. This is a tough problem and FD hasn't shown much interest in punishing offenders.

Woah, slow down there. Just because the OP has a very, very flawed idea doesn't mean that he is selfish or "needs [psychological] help".

The general message that I'm getting is that it's very obvious that you don't know or understand how certain mechanics within the game work and yet you've gone and written a 3000+ word essay on how to fix the game, by fixing those mechanics, without taking into account balance, playability/replayability or what players want/need to keep them interested in the game.

No, I am not suggesting we leave things alone because some people "need" pvp.

I am suggesting, as I did back at the beginning of this thread, that you take a step back, do some more research into your concepts and the mechanics they effect, then take an even further step back and look at how changing those mechanics is going to directly effect players from every side of the equation.

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

Updated main thread, posting here for awareness.

The Equation Factor

How does one narrow down suitable fines for punishment for cold-blooded murder? What multiplier could be used to prevent this with real consequences? In this idea, I shall use two multipliers:

UPDATE: 30/11/2016

Due to feedback about punishment concerning Homicide, all the values have been reigned in. Ranks no longer apply in the equation, which means a more simple formula is to be used; only the cost of the ship destroyed by unlawful means will now count towards the percentage of homicide cost.

This means the murderer is suitably punished for the crime in terms of credits, but is not overly punishing as to bankrupt someone because of accidental death or murder (the option to forgive on the black screen with “No” and “No” still applies).

In the below table, this value is as follows: x0.25%.

This means a Homicide against any ranked ship will be met with the cost of the victim’s ship.

Ship vs. Ship is: x0.25% Homicide +/= Ship Value = True Penalty.

Example 01:

Sidewinder victim vs. Sidewinder murderer = +0.25% to victim’s cost of ship.

Sidewinder Ship Cost: 32,000cr

+0.25% = 8,000cr + 32,0000cr = 40,000cr Homicide penalty.

Example 02:

Sidewinder victim vs. Anaconda murderer = +0.25% to victim’s cost of ship.

Sidewinder Ship Cost: 32,000cr

+0.25% = 8,000cr + 32,000cr = 40,000cr Homicide penalty.

Example 03:

Anaconda victim vs. Anaconda murderer = +0.25% to victim’s cost of ship.

Anaconda Ship Cost: 146,969,451cr

+0.25% = 367,424cr + 146,969,451cr = 147,336,875cr Homicide penalty.

- - - Updated - - -

The general message that I'm getting is that it's very obvious that you don't know or understand how certain mechanics within the game work and yet you've gone and written a 3000+ word essay on how to fix the game, by fixing those mechanics, without taking into account balance, playability/replayability or what players want/need to keep them interested in the game.

No, I am not suggesting we leave things alone because some people "need" pvp.

I am suggesting, as I did back at the beginning of this thread, that you take a step back, do some more research into your concepts and the mechanics they effect, then take an even further step back and look at how changing those mechanics is going to directly effect players from every side of the equation.

I've just posted a new update regarding crime and punishment.

If a murder isn't punished, then we have no crime and punishment system.

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

Also added another Cargo Scanner function for those that want to continue to pirate as normal without hack-lock:

Update: Added 30/11/2016: Turning the Cargo Scanner Hack on can be done through your right-hand panel (similar to where you turn on your Wing Beacon) - this be be done with two simple options: On/Off. This means you can still scan cargo normally, but not instantly Hack the target unless the Hack is turned on.

Also removed the 50% penalty for cargo - this rule, below, would no longer apply:

Cargo to be stolen cannot exceed 50% of the target’s Cargo hold, no matter the Cargo Scanner strength. Therefore; target has 128 Cargo space – you scan them with a Rating A Cargo Scanner during the hack – although it allows a maximum of 192 Cargo to be stolen, you will only achieve 64 Cargo. Therefore, Rating A Cargo Scanners, and pirating larger transports like Anacondas, T9s or T7s, would be more profitable, if a little more dangerous against some ships.

Updated: 30/11/2016 - Hack immunity has been increased from 1 hour 2 hours - however, the amount of Cargo that can be hacked has been increased massively to make pirating more profitable and viable as a solo pirate or in wings. All the other rules still apply to Pirate/Piracy.

• *Rating E: 32 Cargo
• *Rating D: 64 Cargo
• *Rating C: 128 Cargo
• *Rating B: 256 Cargo
• *Rating A: 512 Cargo

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

*record scratch noise*

Woah, slow down there. Just because the OP has a very, very flawed idea doesn't mean that he is selfish or "needs [psychological] help".

what was the necessity of the OP do an essay attacking the other idea just because i pointed out that I find it better? If was just here in his post to defend his idea i'd get it but going into the other guy and making the same thing there, tsc tsc...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-Matchmaking?p=4843568&viewfull=1#post4843568

That's a move, but backfired in his face...

Also

I'm repping you +1 for effort and a constructive idea - but it is heavily flawed when players (accounts) have free reign on which player (account) to rep when many Elite players purchase a second account - or many more.

Talk about narcissism...

 

[Deadspin]

I've just posted a new update regarding crime and punishment.

If a murder isn't punished, then we have no crime and punishment system.

I agree, but my criticism goes back to one of the replies I quoted to you, about how to balance the punishment with the game so that you don't alienate any specific player base. You have to work it out that way so that the game still appeals to all types of players while not rewarding any one specific activity any more than the others.

I honestly believe that punishment via automatic deduction of funds from one's bank account isn't the way to do it. Especially if you're going to lose the hull cost of your ship (in Conda on Conda crime) for attacking and destroying another player.

If I fly into Eravate, into Adles Aramada space, I am KOS simply because our two player groups don't like each other and they blame the DF for all of their problems. So you are automatically damning them to tolerating my presence if they don't want to lose the money associated with popping my Anaconda and vice versa. Would you have us all stick to simple BGS interaction as a way to throw fists between two sparring player factions? It's not like we can ask Frontier to drop us a no-reason CZ instance so that we can fight properly.

I'm pretty certain BorCo wouldn't tolerate a GalCop player flitting around in their systems for long either, would they? .

Now, to expand on the High/Low/Null security systems that everyone loves to talk about. Look at what EVE has (because EVE is the shining example here) and what CCP has given to players in order to make sure Null can work for those lawless corporations that exist out beyond secured space.

Now, if we were to take the bubble as it is right now and restrict wanted players back to anarchy/lawless systems, what do they have? A whole lot of nothing. The High/Low/Null idea is great in theory but the entire layout of the bubble would need to be adjusted, as well as faction location and governance in a lot of areas in order to keep those wanted players from being completely alienated from the game. The anarchy areas would need outfitting that was competitive with safe space, maybe even individual engineers specific to each side of the law, that way you still have some balance.

At the same time, rather than providing lucrative "pirate" missions for outlaw players. There needs to be more. Dive down deep into the complexities of faction relationships in this game and we could have Empire missions to wipe out federation supply routes, paying big dollars comparable to the amount of high security shoot-on-sight systems you, as a wanted player, would have to fly through to complete it. Same deal for Fed to Empire systems, Alliance to either, etc and so on. This provides wanted players with a way to still achieve faction rank progress with any of the big 3 while keeping secure space somewhat more secure than anarchy.

To go along with this, system security forces would need an almost Concord like buff (maybe not as absolutely ridiculously powerful as concord was in EVE) to balance out the rogue players who would slip into secure space to terrorize other PCs along their trade/mining/passenger routes.

At the same time, for balance, lawful players need to have bounty missions to kill pirates that pay comparably based off of how far into unsecured space you have to go, complete with missions from the big 3 (and of course, associated minor factions in good standing) to allow for rank progress. We need to have the ability to place bounties on other players and it needs to be done the way CCP did it to keep any exploitative cash gains from being made. That at least allows for bounties to last weeks, if not months, before the amount is fully claimed by any one or group of players.

So:

With the Concord like buff to security force speeds and damage, we'd have a relatively decent police force to counter rogue players attacking other players/npcs, but it has to be balanced to allow time for pirating (which is why, I think, the current response time is so long).

With the change to system layout, faction layout, governance layout, you have now created areas (or bubbles within the bubble) where various types of play styles can thrive.

Murder would need to be addressed but I can't really touch on it without the respawn mechanics and how they fit into the lore of the game being explained to me more in depth. You lose a large ship, you're out 10 million credits, which isn't much considering that a good portion of us are flying around with more than half a billion in our bank accounts. The punishment needs to be the harassment being turned on the harassers. Give other players a reason to pursue them. Give them something to be scared of (concord like security force, maybe? ) when they enter into secured space.

This is just a brief idea. I'm sure if I actually sat down and typed up a whole document on how to adjust the game to better suit our current crop of players that it would take me a few weeks to actually go through and balance the mechanics against each other while also coming up with new mechanics and items in-game to help each side out.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

I agree, but my criticism goes back to one of the replies I quoted to you, about how to balance the punishment with the game so that you don't alienate any specific player base. You have to work it out that way so that the game still appeals to all types of players while not rewarding any one specific activity any more than the others.

I honestly believe that punishment via automatic deduction of funds from one's bank account isn't the way to do it. Especially if you're going to lose the hull cost of your ship (in Conda on Conda crime) for attacking and destroying another player.

If I fly into Eravate, into Adles Aramada space, I am KOS simply because our two player groups don't like each other and they blame the DF for all of their problems. So you are automatically damning them to tolerating my presence if they don't want to lose the money associated with popping my Anaconda and vice versa. Would you have us all stick to simple BGS interaction as a way to throw fists between two sparring player factions? It's not like we can ask Frontier to drop us a no-reason CZ instance so that we can fight properly.

I'm pretty certain BorCo wouldn't tolerate a GalCop player flitting around in their systems for long either, would they? .

Now, to expand on the High/Low/Null security systems that everyone loves to talk about. Look at what EVE has (because EVE is the shining example here) and what CCP has given to players in order to make sure Null can work for those lawless corporations that exist out beyond secured space.

Now, if we were to take the bubble as it is right now and restrict wanted players back to anarchy/lawless systems, what do they have? A whole lot of nothing. The High/Low/Null idea is great in theory but the entire layout of the bubble would need to be adjusted, as well as faction location and governance in a lot of areas in order to keep those wanted players from being completely alienated from the game. The anarchy areas would need outfitting that was competitive with safe space, maybe even individual engineers specific to each side of the law, that way you still have some balance.

At the same time, rather than providing lucrative "pirate" missions for outlaw players. There needs to be more. Dive down deep into the complexities of faction relationships in this game and we could have Empire missions to wipe out federation supply routes, paying big dollars comparable to the amount of high security shoot-on-sight systems you, as a wanted player, would have to fly through to complete it. Same deal for Fed to Empire systems, Alliance to either, etc and so on. This provides wanted players with a way to still achieve faction rank progress with any of the big 3 while keeping secure space somewhat more secure than anarchy.

To go along with this, system security forces would need an almost Concord like buff (maybe not as absolutely ridiculously powerful as concord was in EVE) to balance out the rogue players who would slip into secure space to terrorize other PCs along their trade/mining/passenger routes.

At the same time, for balance, lawful players need to have bounty missions to kill pirates that pay comparably based off of how far into unsecured space you have to go, complete with missions from the big 3 (and of course, associated minor factions in good standing) to allow for rank progress. We need to have the ability to place bounties on other players and it needs to be done the way CCP did it to keep any exploitative cash gains from being made. That at least allows for bounties to last weeks, if not months, before the amount is fully claimed by any one or group of players.

So:

With the Concord like buff to security force speeds and damage, we'd have a relatively decent police force to counter rogue players attacking other players/npcs, but it has to be balanced to allow time for pirating (which is why, I think, the current response time is so long).

With the change to system layout, faction layout, governance layout, you have now created areas (or bubbles within the bubble) where various types of play styles can thrive.

Murder would need to be addressed but I can't really touch on it without the respawn mechanics and how they fit into the lore of the game being explained to me more in depth. You lose a large ship, you're out 10 million credits, which isn't much considering that a good portion of us are flying around with more than half a billion in our bank accounts. The punishment needs to be the harassment being turned on the harassers. Give other players a reason to pursue them. Give them something to be scared of (concord like security force, maybe? ) when they enter into secured space.

This is just a brief idea. I'm sure if I actually sat down and typed up a whole document on how to adjust the game to better suit our current crop of players that it would take me a few weeks to actually go through and balance the mechanics against each other while also coming up with new mechanics and items in-game to help each side out.

Fully Agreed. but he will say you are a ganker and a problem to the game because you don't agree with his idea...

 

[CmdrKull]

Again you know nothing about piracy,And I'm not that, you just trying to make piracy into beggarcy...

Want to see my pirating? here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcJvewemlQw

Hatch breakers can pass by shields but still need to pass trough PDs , and also if the player is moving it will spill one cargo at a time, direferent from the compliant methot, that spills 4 cargo at a time and makes piracy much easier...

so again you know< nothing > about piracy... if you want to lear about it try it, i'll see how things works...bet you didnt even know about this piece of info above... because you know...

THIS is piracy. It's not always pretty. Not everyone survives the uh, transaction, but the pirate is after goods, gets the goods, and moves on. Parting shots suck, but it looked like anyone who dropped cargo survived.

This is what needs to be built on, counted on, expanded on. Pirates like this need to be rewarded, and FD can't nerf them into the stone age every time someone doesn't make it out alive. Still, this guy shouldn't be able to do all this and then dock at the CG station like it's no big deal. He shouldn't be able to fly around the high-sec system for an hour until he gets bored. It goes by th ways, but let's not throw out the baby with the bath water. I'm pretty sure this is what David Braben anticipated PvP to be like.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

THIS is piracy. It's not always pretty. Not everyone survives the uh, transaction, but the pirate is after goods, gets the goods, and moves on. Parting shots suck, but it looked like anyone who dropped cargo survived.

This is what needs to be built on, counted on, expanded on. Pirates like this need to be rewarded, and FD can't nerf them into the stone age every time someone doesn't make it out alive. Still, this guy shouldn't be able to do all this and then dock at the CG station like it's no big deal. He shouldn't be able to fly around the high-sec system for an hour until he gets bored. It goes by th ways, but let's not throw out the baby with the bath water. I'm pretty sure this is what David Braben anticipated PvP to be like.

Agreed , I'd like to bribe the station for entrance... I'd like the cops to be more of a pain in the ,I'd like bounties in piracy and murder to be way higher... and i'd like the stakes to be higher, if i die i had to pay 2x or 4x of my bounty as punishment.

 

[Sopel3pl]

Too much of reading

(deploying hardpoints)

My solution is simplier:

High security systems/areas - in these areas security response should be
so hard as station responce. Griefing and pirating just impossible, all of proposed punishes my apply

Medium security - griefing and pirating possible but hard and smart, a part of punish my apply

low security - griefing and pirating possible, but with security response, lucrative routes or missions

anarchy - no security, your flying at your own risk, but very lucrative, trade routes or missions, up to 70% more than in high security, no punish for murder.

As a punish should not only by INEVITABLE ship destruction of a griefer or pirate, but also things like

- unevitable financial punish - the rebuy cost of victim.
- temporary revoke FSD permit to the system (+ hacking Engineer ofcourse )
- limited access to the some Engineers (some of them may be against criminal)
- limited access to outfit and shipyard

In a conclusion - there should be a safe areas and routes where players
can feel totally safe. Safety should not be regulated as PvP yes/no
switch, but by a in-game law and strong and fast response of security
forces.

Take a look from the bigger picture - a murder is not something wrong. You can see it as wrong because that was told You. There may be a different places in galaxy, where the murder could be something common, so there should no be punish for that. It my depend of local law, customs or morality of citizens.
All punishes should apply both for killing NPC or a Player.

Best.
My 2 words about piracy.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/308164-Sugestion-Pirate-idea-ransom-demand
And one thing. Every one who is wanted in system should lost 100% ship insurance until he is wanted. ( in system )
Ship insurance should depends on system type. In Anarchy systems you should lost 100% of insurance also. You can earn more but you must risk more.

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

Okay, I've read your replies and have taken the constructive feedback on board.

Homicide rule now has some added criteria or changes:

• Homicide does not apply in War Zones (War and Civil War).
• Homicide does not apply in Anarchy Systems.
• Homicide does not apply in Low Security Systems.
• Homicide penalty still counts if human victim pilots are “Wanted” because of Bounty status in Medium or High Security systems (unless they are in War Zones, Anarchy Systems or Low Security Systems). (This is to prevent a back door by killing players who solely play in Medium and High Security systems because of accidental shooting, etc.).

I feel "Homicide" is now fairer to the lawless pilots - whilst keeping a suitable punishment for those that murder players in Medium and High Security systems.

This means killing players in Medium or High security systems will be the only systems that result in paying huge personal fines for murdering PvE players. I thought about reducing the fine by 50% in Medium, but it occurred to me that there are plenty of systems that can flip from High, Medium, to Low or even Anarchy by manipulating the background sim to trigger Lock-Down, Civil Unrest, or Conflicts (War/Civil War). Because of the fluid nature of this fact, I have left Medium and High security open as safe spots for PvE and did not introduce a 50% reduction in the Homicide rule for Medium.

Because of this, it would have a knock on effect if it could tempt players from Solo and Private back into Open Play - Piracy would be made easier in Medium and High Security systems because of the higher populations of players. I have introduced a method of Piracy and have updated the following in Future Opportunities in the original post:

- Piracy Mission: Interdict and steal 50 tonnes of Gold
600,000cr minimum reward; 2,340,000 maximum reward.

- Piracy Mission: Interdict and steal 70 tonnes of Painite
5,400,000cr minimum reward; 9,500,000 maximum reward.

- Piracy Mission: Interdict and steal 360 tonnes of Platinum
20,200,000cr minimum reward; 40,000,000 maximum reward.

- Piracy Mission: Interdict and steal 56 Imperial Slaves
1,350,000cr minimum reward; 4,950,000 maximum reward.

Keep the feedback and ideas coming.

EDIT: P.S. Forgot to add that a new paragraph was added in the original post:

Pirate Code History

There are many different opinions on "what" a pirate is and "what" a pirate does. Some people assume pirates try to steal cargo, then go. Some people assume pirates just go around aimlessly murdering their victims and just use cargo as an excuse. Some believe they try to both steal and murder their victims. In light of these different views, because various people have mentioned throughout this thread, and others - I thought I would share the historical importance of what pirate codes are:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_code
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy

"A pirate code, pirate articles or articles of agreement were a code of conduct for governing pirates. A group of sailors, on turning pirate, would draw up their own code or articles, which provided rules for discipline, division of stolen goods, and compensation for injured pirates."

Now, this being the future, our vessels are still space "ships" sailing throughout the galaxy. Piracy, I would then assume (even in Elite Dangerous), means pilots practice some sort of Pirate Code. Therefore, this means all pirates are different - and cannot be ruled as "this is what they are and how they would act".

So, in light of this (and perhaps something to be expanded upon), I shall continue developing the practice of piracy in this thread in the near future - and not be told "what" piracy is and "what" piracy does, because such meanings are superfluous.

o7

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

UPDATE:

The "Piracy" special rule has been scrapped.

After consideration, it added nothing to the changes already proposed for both the Cargo Scanner re-work and the addition of Piracy missions in Low Security systems.

 

[Sopel3pl]

You still do one major error. Piracy want money. But you try build missions to steal mostly worthless cargo. It's a bad way. You better think about missions that pirats will earn money in diffrent way.
For example ransom money for not destroy attacked ships or kidnapp pilots, passengers (First, pilot ejected must be introduce ) station blocade. Earn money and pirate range for destroy ship or run station blocade. Cargo mission is primitive. Cargo missions are an minor option not major target.

 

[Galactic Fork]

You still do one major error. Piracy want money. But you try build missions to steal mostly worthless cargo. It's a bad way. You better think about missions that pirats will earn money in diffrent way.
For example ransom money for not destroy attacked ships or kidnapp pilots, passengers (First, pilot ejected must be introduce ) station blocade. Earn money and pirate range for destroy ship or run station blocade. Cargo mission is primitive. Cargo missions are an minor option not major target.

Oh! Also an additional module then. A class 1 "cell" module to stuff prisoners. Also a means to transfer passengers from one ship to another.

 

[Sopel3pl]

Oh! Also an additional module then. A class 1 "cell" module to stuff prisoners. Also a means to transfer passengers from one ship to another.

Real good sugestion. But we still need pilot ejected for example like this.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/222041-NPC-pilots-eject-and-occupied-escape-pods

 

[Galactic Fork]

So what is your definition of griefing? I can assure you that it's not in line with the actual definition of griefing if that is your answer.

Finding random players to kill isn't griefing. Griefing is targeted harassment against specific players or player groups. IE, when Mobius was invaded, that was griefing. Tracking down a single player and repeatedly killing him every time he undocks, that is griefing.

Randomly flying around and killing trade vessels or seal clubbing is not actually griefing.

PvP groups don't "fleet up" and head out to do battle with other pvp groups as often as you would think because it's a royal PITA to get past the networking issues, even with wing tethering.

If you're going to propose changes to a game, especially for the betterment, you should probably do a bit of research into understanding the game better.

You really have a narrow and incorrect view of what griefing is. Forcing PVP against players not intending PVP is a form of griefing. Anything done in the game that has the intent of ruining the fun of other players is by definition griefing (no really, I can provide several dictionary entries that say as much). That said, Frontier has made it clear that some level of griefing is acceptable in Elite. I find it amusing that one of the people editing the wikipedia article on griefing singled out Elite in that regard.

Space sims like Eve Online and Elite: Dangerous have incorporated activities typically considered griefing as part of the gameplay mechanism. Corporate spying, theft, scams, gate-camping, and PVP on non-PVP players are all part of their gaming experience.

The problem right now is that there is A) no really in game benefit to pirating, and B) no real consequences to doing it. This means the only thing achieved is the joy of attacking people weaker than you. Or driving people out of open.

- - - Updated - - -

Real good sugestion. But we still need pilot ejected for example like this.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/222041-NPC-pilots-eject-and-occupied-escape-pods

In my teal deer above, I'd originally included a ejection hacker module in the illegal modules for that option. I removed it because of the difference between PCs and NPCs. Would it allow player characters getting kidnapped, or their pods shot down after launch? Would you only see NPC pods launched?

 

[Sopel3pl]

In my teal deer above, I'd originally included a ejection hacker module in the illegal modules for that option. I removed it because of the difference between PCs and NPCs. Would it allow player characters getting kidnapped, or their pods shot down after launch? Would you only see NPC pods launched?

Ejection hacker module is a module that I just simply not thought. But it's your next good idea both for NPC and players. But we need some good conditions to prevent use this module too easy or in not logic way. For example, this module should be similar to "egg" in eve online. But in elite playes sit in cabin, that means he must go to the module first, that means also if you hack module you eject empty module. Next question. What the ejection module should work? It should be something like emergency boat. That means module should can enter supercriuse at least 1 time and travel in supercriuse at least few seconds .. 1 minute ( fuel ) and have emergency transmiter. As you can see for this example ejection hacker module could work in 3 diferent ways if escape pods hacked.
1. Prewent jump in supercruise. ( best you can interdict escape pod )
2. Tracking in supercruise. ( you can interdict it faster until he reach safe destination )
3. Eject empty escape pod. ( open dialog option with pilot )

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

You still do one major error. Piracy want money. But you try build missions to steal mostly worthless cargo. It's a bad way. You better think about missions that pirats will earn money in diffrent way.
For example ransom money for not destroy attacked ships or kidnap pilots, passengers (First, pilot ejected must be introduce ) station blocade. Earn money and pirate range for destroy ship or run station blocade. Cargo mission is primitive. Cargo missions are an minor option not major target.

You say I try and build missions around "worthless cargo"...????????

What???? You think (consider) Platinum and Painite cargo as worthless, then, I presume?

Platinum and Painite is something miners would have a lot of and would be easier to obtain (not to mention, one of the best sellers) - hence, not so hard for pirates to get their hands on.

I know it may seem like simple steps, but I have only created missions that Frontier could easily implement with little effort and time - anything else you are looking for is something that Frontier would have to develop themselves. I'm not designing and developing the game for them - I'm trying to solve a problem between Crime & Punishment (murdering players) and providing a better quality of life for REAL pirating.