Unfortunately, it is an alcoholic as him who has responsibilities
Last edited:
General / Off-Topic Italy Voted No in Constitutional Referendum. It's Only a Matter of Time for Italy to Leave the European Union
- Thread starter Cosmo
- Start date
Unfortunately, it is an alcoholic as him who has responsibilities
& 2017
As soon as we agreed that the true issue of "Europe" is some whiney clowns who believe in their respective national superiority, buy them their little uninhabited island off the coast of norway (populate the waters around it it with sharks that have lasers on their head) and let them find out they have more in common amongst themselves than with the rest of their respective countries.
And this is exactly why populist parties are getting more and more votes everywhere in Europe. People that don't agree with the status quo and the way their country and Europe is run are being potraied as 'whiney clowns' that should be deported to an uninhabited island...
There's plenty of things wrong with Europe and the way politics and big business are intertwined in most western countries. There's people with legitimate complaints that are not being heard by the mainstream politicians and this angers them.
To me the US election result is not so much about Trump winning, but Clinton losing the election. A large number of voters is fed up with the establishment and are voicing their anger at the ballot box. It's a damn shame that they have to resort to the likes of Trump, Le Pen or Wilders, but apparently they don't trust the alternatives.
It should give the politicians something to think about, but sadly all I see is heads going into the sand and claims that all these voters are misguided racists.
So you think people falling for the lure of populist parties is because those not voting for them are so rude and make fun of them. What a lovely and grown up reason to vote for people offering empty feel-good promises and no substance. Watch how the Brexit promises will be delivered in the UK, watch how Trump will fulfill his campaign promises. We have the "True Finns" in the government, and they are just as empty and worthless as we told the electorate they would be.
You vote for populist idiots, you will get called a fool. What should happen instead? "Oh, we understand. Go ahead and vote for destructive con men. It's ok, we understand that it's just because you are angy". Nope. Voting is for adults. You get judged for your choices like an adult.
Sorry to break your stride here, but Hofer lost, Italy is in political crisis since 1900 and Merkel will get her 4th mandate.
I did not say "deport" I said "buy them their little island", since I'm done compromising with the unwilling. And sorry, but if it's not clear what an utter lying establishment hugging robbing criminal buffoon Trump is -by now and before he's even in office-, after his wall street, war mongering, conspiracy white supremacy cabinet picks, I guess you'll never learn it.
You think you know it better? You think you can chicken out of your resposibility by not getting into politics yourself? You think 17 million people are "the majority" of 60 million people? You think you can anonymously throw some stone trough some window you don't like instead of contributing the modernization of the building?
You get your own state, away from Europe and you run it the way you like.
Deal?
Last edited:
I looked up the definition of the word "populist", just in case I had the meaning of the word incorrect...
What I've noticed is that "populist" seems to be a term used - very recently by those of a left-wing bent - as some kind of pejorative.
Yet, according to the definition of the word, it appears that any politician or party can "support or seek to appeal to the concerns of ordinary people."
So I'm puzzled here. From my observation, every single political party in both the USA and the UK "support or seek to appeal to the concerns of ordinary people." Every one of them. It's in their language on TV interviews, and in their publications.
So why is it suddenly bad that Trump is being derided as being a 'populist'?
Why is it bad that 'populism' is winning against pro-European ideals?
It seems that 'populism' becomes pejorative only when 'the other side' is winning the exact same 'battle for populism' that 'their side' were winning for a decade or more before.
What I've noticed is that "populist" seems to be a term used - very recently by those of a left-wing bent - as some kind of pejorative.
Yet, according to the definition of the word, it appears that any politician or party can "support or seek to appeal to the concerns of ordinary people."
So I'm puzzled here. From my observation, every single political party in both the USA and the UK "support or seek to appeal to the concerns of ordinary people." Every one of them. It's in their language on TV interviews, and in their publications.
So why is it suddenly bad that Trump is being derided as being a 'populist'?
Why is it bad that 'populism' is winning against pro-European ideals?
It seems that 'populism' becomes pejorative only when 'the other side' is winning the exact same 'battle for populism' that 'their side' were winning for a decade or more before.
In the UK that is exactly what is going to happen
Then return your bmws, volkswagens and yea.. Bentley and mini while you're at it.
You can build your own cars? Go ahead and prove it.
Ah, Vauxhall is ours, too.. 100% subsidiary of the Adam Opel AG. We want those jobs in Germany.
You can deal with gm directly and see if you find a parking spot for one of their oceanliners.
Last edited:
Then return your bmws, volkswagens and yea.. Bentley and mini while you're at it.
You can build your own cars? Go ahead and prove it.
Ah, Vauxhall is ours, too.. 100% subsidiary of the Adam Opel AG. We want those jobs in Germany.
You can deal with gm directly and see if you find a parking spot for one of their oceanliners.
Arn't voltswagon recalling their cars anyway for cheating an emissions test? You are very angry my friend.
Kia from Asia. Ford from America. So much choice.
Then return your bmws, volkswagens and yea.. Bentley and mini while you're at it.
You can build your own cars? Go ahead and prove it.
Ah, Vauxhall is ours, too.. 100% subsidiary of the Adam Opel AG. We want those jobs in Germany.
You can deal with gm directly and see if you find a parking spot for one of their oceanliners.
Of course the UK can build it's own cars!
Look:
To balance that out, there have of course been some that really were very good indeed.
Well, I was indeed considering getting a Rover 75 at one point in time. Til I found out the company is bancrupt and spare parts are worth their weight in gold.
Or a Jaguar (since Mercedes and BMW moved away from their cozy "gentleman's lounge" wood&leather internal decor to stupid "carbon & brushed alloy" .. and Audi never had good interiors) .. which moved from Ford to Tata Motors India and has a model line-up that changes more frequently and drastically than a cheap iPhone copy straight from china. Not gonna buy that thing for the price of a Mercedes, where I still have a huge selection of spare parts for any model back to 1930.
Thing is - british cars have a lot of class and emotion (there's still brits here wondering about their "lost national identity" .. hm ^^ .. german (cars) don't ... we actually have to import that). Pool that with german technology like Mini and Bentley, and you get a product that's competitive on a global level.
You still have Ford and Kia? Awesome - have fun buying them for the price of a BMW built by workers in Manila and Mexico. And waiting for 7 years til your ordered model arrives, since a decreased competition on the market means they get away with more shennanigans (if you ever owned a Trabant or Wartburg or Lada or Dacia pre 1989 model, you know what I'm talking about
)And don't confuse my slight bemusement with anger.
And in case you want to know about the political mood over here, before it's in the press.
The parties that are trying to form an alliance with the christian conservative middle (except the extreme left and extreme right, who are fragmenting the "protest voters" into 2 insignificant political camps who're too busy feuding each other to be of any real relevance and are already infighting about positions before the election even started .. clowns
) , who will field the next chancellor, are working on a "core EU" concept - stripping all those saturated, unsatisfied EU Members with a clear break and giving those growing markets and recent joiners who see the benefit in a larger, economically more powerful centre of Europe more weight.One of the determining factors of economic success is the growth rate. Another one is close cooperation (economically) against other economic superpowers like China and the US (if they decide to chicken out of mutual agreements).
Get your mittens while you can afford them.
Last edited:
When you say 'very recently', do you mean 'the ancient Romans' by any chance? Because thats when it became pejorative. And for what it is worth, populism is, like most things, not binary. (it also means appealing to the concerns of ordinary people for no reason other than to get votes, rather than a genuine concern about those issues!). Trump just happens to be so incredibly obviously so that its just too hard to call it anything else. In our country we have a small dozen or so parties, and all of them are populist to some degree. The only ones who are not are the hardcore parties, like the hardcore christians ("no internet on sunday!"), the communist party (who up to a few years ago didnt even agree with the concept of private property at all) and ultra-far right groups that openly proclaim white supremacy. These guys appear rather honest, dont care about what you think and as a result generally do not get any seat at all,or in the first example, only one or two. Trump is the opposite: he has clearly shown he has zero regard for facts or reality, has no interest in any way in most issues and will literally say anything without giving pause, as long as he suspects it gets him some support from suckers. He is populism condensed into the ultimate and purest form.
Last edited:
With all of these Brexit/US Election style threads I think it would be helpful to know where each contributor comes from. I'm an AngloIrish Brit btw, but I doubt if all the earlier contributors are Brits.
I have my location down to the city on my forum profile.
I have my location in my profile (A' Ghàidhealtachd, Alba).
Most Italians I know voted No. Most Italians I know didn't know what they were voting for. I read the proposals and I didn't know what my wife was voting for. Neither did she. So it became about Renzi. And Renzi isn't popular with left or right.
The rise of populist anti-European movements like 5-Star and UKIP is about the lack of faith in politicians, not Europe itself. Europe tends to get the blame for everything that goes wrong. Not that Europe is perfect.
For the record, historically, the Lire (the Italian currency) was one of the weakest currencies that joined the EU. The massive inflation that happened in Italy post-2002 (and that's when I came to live in Italy) was mainly caused by Italians screwing each other over by pretty much converting the Lire into Euro (and chopping off the 1000), effectively doubling the price. So 5000 Lire became 5 EUR instead of the 2.50 EUR it was supposed to be, but wages stayed the same. This didn't happen in most other countries that converted where the changeover was carefully monitored. Of course, the Euro was blamed, not the mentality of the Italians who laugh when admitting how much money they made during the changeover when a dress that cost 100.000 (100,000) LIRE was 100 EUR instead of 50 EUR. Doubling their profit. Hahahaha. No, you screwed your country over. As did everyone else.
For the record, I still don't understand what the reform was doing. I've read the original and read both interpretations and to be honest... BOH.
The rise of populist anti-European movements like 5-Star and UKIP is about the lack of faith in politicians, not Europe itself. Europe tends to get the blame for everything that goes wrong. Not that Europe is perfect.
For the record, historically, the Lire (the Italian currency) was one of the weakest currencies that joined the EU. The massive inflation that happened in Italy post-2002 (and that's when I came to live in Italy) was mainly caused by Italians screwing each other over by pretty much converting the Lire into Euro (and chopping off the 1000), effectively doubling the price. So 5000 Lire became 5 EUR instead of the 2.50 EUR it was supposed to be, but wages stayed the same. This didn't happen in most other countries that converted where the changeover was carefully monitored. Of course, the Euro was blamed, not the mentality of the Italians who laugh when admitting how much money they made during the changeover when a dress that cost 100.000 (100,000) LIRE was 100 EUR instead of 50 EUR. Doubling their profit. Hahahaha. No, you screwed your country over. As did everyone else.
For the record, I still don't understand what the reform was doing. I've read the original and read both interpretations and to be honest... BOH.
Here is the thing though: is it fair to expect the general populace to be able to understand comprehensive governmental reforms on a nation scale? I mean, I've got a job of my own, I elect people into government so they can figure it out while I take care of whatever it is I am paid to do. If I have to give my opinion on everything, what are those people for, and why are they getting paid instead of me?
This happened in almost every Country tough ^^
Just that in most Countries it happened slower or didnt have too much effect ^^
I still remember back then. 51 Cent for 1 DeMark ^^
But most Shops did not Half the Prices at all lol.
Something that Cost 99 Pfennig (1 DM is 100 Pfennig) did not cost 50 Cent like it was supposed to. But went to something like 89 or 79 Cent.
By now the Milk which back then Cost 80 Pfennig costs like 90 Cents lol
Many People outright refused to use Euro and just stayed with DM as long as they could.
I myself back then Converted 50 DM into Euro and went Shopping. I just took the usual stuff that I took every damn Week. Normally this cost me between 35 and 40 DM. And then the Cashier demanded 40 Euro lol.
I looked at him in Disbelief and told him that I always buy this and how it can be that it costs so much now. I was pretty annoyed and then left the Shop in Rage without buying anything just letting the Cashier stand there with the stuff telling him that this is Fraud and that I.ll not buy anything from him lol.
Later on when I bought the stuff somewhere different I didnt really pay less tough.
I scrambled my old Jackets to get an older Bill. And went over the Prices.
And seriously 51 cent for 100 Pfennig was a Joke. Most of the Prices were converted with like 80-90 cent for 100 Pfennig.
Not that it helped anything to know that tough.....