Fix Piracy

[Battleship Kickass]

This is about PvE piracy obviously, PvP piracy has long been scrapped as an idea of any FD support.

Last time I logged in a change was finally added that when following a specific number of steps you could disable a ship completely and siphon all of their cargo (in a still annoying/unpolished way), even avoiding the fuzz if done properly. It had a certain amount of challenge involved and made contract piracy missions doable and fun.

Now NPC's are rebooting after a few seconds of module destruction and immediately boosting away...forget giving up the cargo, just kill me instead...top notch AI programming there.

I've seen players are now shooting NPC shields once so they attack then cutting their engines, launching their limpits and collectors, and just shield tanking while the NPC circles and attacks and slowly drains cargo. This is backwards progress for one of the career paths in the game.

From the previous solution, to request certain amount of cargo dump COMMS, to a module that keeps them from moving after PP destruction, etc...give a little update to make PvE piracy reasonable again.

 

[Comrade Error]

PvP piracy has long been scrapped as an idea of any FD support.

5char

 

[Threeofseven]

I can agree. If they want npcs to reboot make it more than a few seconds.

 

[Argus Leadhead]

I still successfully pirate NPC's in game using basically the same process as before. Shoot out their powerplant, break their hatch, collect. The only difference now is that I have to position myself to be able to shoot out the powerplant multiple times. As soon as I see it go from 0% to 1%, it gets shot out again. They may move a little, but it's of no consequence really. The only time it can be a problem is when an NPC gets their power priorities set properly, which usually happens after shooting their power plant out 3-5 times. That seems to be when they can start running or fighting in earnest. Most ships are easy to kill at that point anyway though and by that point, I've already got almost as much cargo as I can carry.

I do my piracy in an Asp X(4 C1 cannons [high yield], 2 C2 beam lasers [short range blaster] all gimbaled. Holds 64t of cargo), so some ships (combat/mining/high ranked pythons mainly) are more trouble than they're worth. It's easy to not pick them as targets though as a T7 carries as much or more low temp diamonds as a python does.

It's really not that big of a change, and it certainly doesn't make PvE piracy unreasonable, as there's only one extra (and very easy) step to take.

 

[White Shark]

I'm not a pirate, so do nt knw any tactics, but how do you guys damage the ship without destroying the thing? I tend to end up blowing up the ship, before getting the power plant down. What weapons do you use on the power plant?

The game I think needs more tools for pirates. Some sort of corrosive laser to damage internals more than hull, or an EMP weapon which disables a ship temporarily. And how about some fun items like a harpoon with a tether, so you can attach your ship to the target? Imagine if your whole wing did this at the same time to immobilise a ship?

 

[Marra Morgan]

Now that the NPCs can reboot their powerplants and that hatchbreakers can bypass shields, the best way to pirate NPCs is simply to trail them, using hatchbreaker and collector limpets to grab what you want. In the event that they retaliate, you only need a shield tank whilst you collect.

The unfortunate truth of this, is that weapons are redundant for NPC piracy. How dull and disappointing for what should be a risky and fun profession

 

[Battleship Kickass]

I still successfully pirate NPC's in game using basically the same process as before. Shoot out their powerplant, break their hatch, collect. The only difference now is that I have to position myself to be able to shoot out the powerplant multiple times. As soon as I see it go from 0% to 1%, it gets shot out again. They may move a little, but it's of no consequence really. The only time it can be a problem is when an NPC gets their power priorities set properly, which usually happens after shooting their power plant out 3-5 times. That seems to be when they can start running or fighting in earnest. Most ships are easy to kill at that point anyway though and by that point, I've already got almost as much cargo as I can carry.

I do my piracy in an Asp X(4 C1 cannons [high yield], 2 C2 beam lasers [short range blaster] all gimbaled. Holds 64t of cargo), so some ships (combat/mining/high ranked pythons mainly) are more trouble than they're worth. It's easy to not pick them as targets though as a T7 carries as much or more low temp diamonds as a python does.

It's really not that big of a change, and it certainly doesn't make PvE piracy unreasonable, as there's only one extra (and very easy) step to take.

An extra step that requires you to risk murdering a ship you are only trying to steal cargo from over and over which will cause immediate pirate mission failure.

Many NPCs will immediately boost as soon as they reboot.

You don't get to choose what your target is flying on piracy missions.

Good luck siphoning hundreds of cargo (to get the required cargo) with your one extra (and very easy) step before killing the target or the mission timer running out.

As I said, to complete these missions people are now shooting the NPC once then shield tanking without moving while siphoning/collecting cargo. This is backwards progress from what was in the game and assbackwards NPC logic. It needs corrected.

Congrats on successfully pirating a ship bud, but you glossed over every point in my post to try to show some completely different way you are successful. Players still successfully pirate other players and I've successfully pirated NPCs and completed piracy missions with these new rules as well under some circumstances, but that doesn't make the current piracy requirements any more reasonable than someone saying 2k cr per kill on any ship in a CZ is a reasonable amount because you can make a profit if you don't die.

 

[boybob227]

OP, I just tried NPC pirating for the first time. In three hours I made (lost) about -32,000 credits. Why, you ask? Limpets, and repairs. Whenever I tried to interdict someone, one of three things would happen:

1) I'd win, then they'd FSD away as if they had dropped into normal space on their own accord. It was always ASPs, and they always said something along the lines of, "You're not the law, commander. This is my stuff and I'm keeping it," and before I even got my hardpoints out they were gone again.

2) They'd decide to fight me to the death. This was usually the Type-6s, and they ALWAYS had point defense so I couldn't use the hacker limpets. On each one I tried targeting the drives, the power plant, or the cargo hatch, like various internet sources said to do, and every time I'd kill them without doing any damage to the module.

I still successfully pirate NPC's in game using basically the same process as before. Shoot out their powerplant, break their hatch, collect.

How?! Even in full blown combat zones I've only managed to knock out a few powerplants in pythons when I targeted it. Are you pirating pythons in an ASP?!

3) THEY'D interdict ME. I kid you not, there was one ship I was tailing that turned around when I wasn't looking and interdicted ME, and started attacking ME. What did I have in my cargo hold? 12 limpets. This and everything else was in solo, by the way, so I know it wasn't some cheeky commander, it was an NPC who was after my limpets.

Maybe there's something I'm missing, but this profession seems tedious, unprofitable and totally not worth my time. Maybe if somebody has some suggestions I'll try them; otherwise I'm going to sell the Cobra I bought for the occasion and stick to mining, which is somehow MORE fun than trying to pirate. A real shame too, because being a space pirate was one of the things I was looking forward to when I bought this game.

 

[Argus Leadhead]

I'm not a pirate, so do nt knw any tactics, but how do you guys damage the ship without destroying the thing? I tend to end up blowing up the ship, before getting the power plant down. What weapons do you use on the power plant?

The game I think needs more tools for pirates. Some sort of corrosive laser to damage internals more than hull, or an EMP weapon which disables a ship temporarily. And how about some fun items like a harpoon with a tether, so you can attach your ship to the target? Imagine if your whole wing did this at the same time to immobilise a ship?

My main weapon for disabling the power plant is my cannons. they've got the "high-yield" special effect, which allows them to do less hull damage, but much more damage to internal components. I use 4X Class 1 cannons on my asp and I can have a power plant down on a non/lightly-armoured ship in as little as 2 or 3 shots if I'm lined up properly to get maximum damage. Usually that means being perpendicular to the target ships top or bottom to get at the powerplant. Once it's disabled, I use a quick burst from 2 class 2 beam lasers to keep it at 0% if they reboot.

 

[Viktor Dracul]

Personally I've been taking out power plant and whilst they reboot I start on drives. As soon as reboot finishes I finalise destruction of drives and am then free to syphon the hold as they don't reboot repair the drives only power plant . Saves having to trail the target losing cargo. In answer to above about avoiding ship destruction I use c1 multi cannons on the modules and pulses on the shield. Using the above most of my targets are left with about 10-15% hull unless I am careless. Using a python with over 100 ton cargo space I make between 4 and 5 mill from a t7 this way.

 

[Argus Leadhead]

An extra step that requires you to risk murdering a ship you are only trying to steal cargo from over and over which will cause immediate pirate mission failure.

Many NPCs will immediately boost as soon as they reboot.

You don't get to choose what your target is flying on piracy missions.

Good luck siphoning hundreds of cargo (to get the required cargo) with your one extra (and very easy) step before killing the target or the mission timer running out.

As I said, to complete these missions people are now shooting the NPC once then shield tanking without moving while siphoning/collecting cargo. This is backwards progress from what was in the game and assbackwards NPC logic. It needs corrected.

Congrats on successfully pirating a ship bud, but you glossed over every point in my post to try to show some completely different way you are successful. Players still successfully pirate other players and I've successfully pirated NPCs and completed piracy missions with these new rules as well under some circumstances, but that doesn't make the current piracy requirements any more reasonable than someone saying 2k cr per kill on any ship in a CZ is a reasonable amount because you can make a profit if you don't die.

Thanks, Tips.


hundreds of cargo to get at a select few still isn't a problem, as I can already completely empty most ships within the time it takes for them to reboot/repair two or three times.

You seem to be under the impression that I've only successfully pirated a few ships here and there "bud". From Diamond backs to Cutters, it doesn't matter what it is. The steps I stated still work and if you have the skill to do it (which isn't much, really) the ship you've got to target doesn't really matter.

I'm thinking you just aren't very good if you have to stick to the steps you outline. There's faster and easier ways if you know what you're doing. Keeping their hull % low even decreases the time hatch breakers take to work. Personally, I keep my targets at around 20%-15% and it takes about one second for a hatch breaker to finish it's job. Lower than that, and they work instantly but the risk of target destruction is higher. If you try to break hatches on full health targets, then no, you won't be able to get through all the junk cargo to get at the goodies you want before you fail or destroy them.

As I said before, it seems to me you need to get better.

Once you've done that, then come talk to me about how unreasonable piracy is.

 

[Kiwirat]

TBH I have given up pirating NPC's in disgust since they nerfed everything in 2.2 and what was once a reasonably thought out challenge and quite a lucrative earner when you pulled it off, has now become tedious and mind numbingly unrewarding.
Frankly I have given the game away almost completely now and only logon every few days to see if there has been an upgrade with maybe some changes back to "the good old days" when you could actually make some reasonable credits for ship advancement. I hung my hopes on 2.2 as a release to stimulate the game for me. It has done the opposite. My friends have also all bailed out. Sad because I once enjoyed the game and spent many hours on it. Maybe the devs will listen up.. but sadly I doubt it.

 

[Argus Leadhead]

OP, I just tried NPC pirating for the first time. In three hours I made (lost) about -32,000 credits. Why, you ask? Limpets, and repairs. Whenever I tried to interdict someone, one of three things would happen:

1) I'd win, then they'd FSD away as if they had dropped into normal space on their own accord. It was always ASPs, and they always said something along the lines of, "You're not the law, commander. This is my stuff and I'm keeping it," and before I even got my hardpoints out they were gone again.

2) They'd decide to fight me to the death. This was usually the Type-6s, and they ALWAYS had point defense so I couldn't use the hacker limpets. On each one I tried targeting the drives, the power plant, or the cargo hatch, like various internet sources said to do, and every time I'd kill them without doing any damage to the module.

How?! Even in full blown combat zones I've only managed to knock out a few powerplants in pythons when I targeted it. Are you pirating pythons in an ASP?!

3) THEY'D interdict ME. I kid you not, there was one ship I was tailing that turned around when I wasn't looking and interdicted ME, and started attacking ME. What did I have in my cargo hold? 12 limpets. This and everything else was in solo, by the way, so I know it wasn't some cheeky commander, it was an NPC who was after my limpets.

Maybe there's something I'm missing, but this profession seems tedious, unprofitable and totally not worth my time. Maybe if somebody has some suggestions I'll try them; otherwise I'm going to sell the Cobra I bought for the occasion and stick to mining, which is somehow MORE fun than trying to pirate. A real shame too, because being a space pirate was one of the things I was looking forward to when I bought this game.

Sure, I'll help you out.
This is the ship I fly exclusively for piracy: https://coriolis.io/outfit/asp/2pft...06r27.Iw18WQ==.IwBjo4uiwJmiIA==?bn=pirate asp


First of, if done right, piracy is one of the *most* profitable professions in the game. With my asp, I can rake in around 8 million an hour.

here's some simple steps to follow:

-Find a high-population Agriculture system with a "boom" state (this is very important)
-Fly around in super cruise looking for targets
-If a ship has both a refinery and mining lasers equipped, pull it over. They are basically guaranteed to have low temperature diamonds (sells for 45K-53K per ton on black market)
-DON'T SHOOT IT!!!
-Wait until the ship hi-wakes out, use your wake scanner and follow it.
-With any luck, they've gone to an anarchy/lawless system. If not, keep interdicting them and following through hyperspace until they're in lawless space. Even Low security is doable, as you've got around 4-5 minutes until the police show up.

Now the fun part:
-Strip the targets shields and lock on to their powerplant.
-Using the cannons, keep shooting it from above or below until it's at 0%. De-target the powerplant and damage their hull until it's low. Re-target the powerplant now.
-You can start launching hatch breakers at this point.
-Position yourself so you've got a clean shot at their powerplant for when they inevitably reboot it. They'll get a little distance, but as long as you're paying attention, you'll be able to bring it back to 0% before they move at all.

From this point, it's just a matter of keeping their P.P. at 0% and running your hatch breakers (2 at a time) and collectors (4 on passive at once) until your hold is full. Shouldn't take more than a few minutes. Once you've got what you want, either kill them or leave.

This method works for piracy missions as well, although sometimes they won't high wake and you'll have to work fast depending on the security level of the system that you're currently in.

As I stated, some ships pose more of a hassle than others. I've successfully pirated high ranking pythons in my asp, but since they're both tough and skilled, it's not worth it in my book as I'm usually limping back in a severely damaged ship despite getting the good. choose your fights or wing up for the harder targets.


I think that's about all I can say about it.

Add me in game if you want more pointers, my name's the same as on here.

 

[Truesilver]

Completely off topic, OP, but a long time back I got really into Clipper ramming.

I just wanted to say how much of an inspiration and source of valuable information your old reddit posts on the topic were - particularly your views on mass and also that great story when you finally killed Bangfish.

I referenced you in some testing concerning ramming that I wrote up in a thread here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/243469-Truesilver-s-Tests-No-4-Ramming-damage-(Part-A)

Anyways, sorry for the divert but o7 and all that, man, great to see you're back!


Truesilver

 

[boybob227]

Sure, I'll help you out.

Spoiler

This is the ship I fly exclusively for piracy: https://coriolis.io/outfit/asp/2pft...06r27.Iw18WQ==.IwBjo4uiwJmiIA==?bn=pirate asp


First of, if done right, piracy is one of the *most* profitable professions in the game. With my asp, I can rake in around 8 million an hour.

here's some simple steps to follow:

-Find a high-population Agriculture system with a "boom" state (this is very important)
-Fly around in super cruise looking for targets
-If a ship has both a refinery and mining lasers equipped, pull it over. They are basically guaranteed to have low temperature diamonds (sells for 45K-53K per ton on black market)
-DON'T SHOOT IT!!!
-Wait until the ship hi-wakes out, use your wake scanner and follow it.
-With any luck, they've gone to an anarchy/lawless system. If not, keep interdicting them and following through hyperspace until they're in lawless space. Even Low security is doable, as you've got around 4-5 minutes until the police show up.

Now the fun part:
-Strip the targets shields and lock on to their powerplant.
-Using the cannons, keep shooting it from above or below until it's at 0%. De-target the powerplant and damage their hull until it's low. Re-target the powerplant now.
-You can start launching hatch breakers at this point.
-Position yourself so you've got a clean shot at their powerplant for when they inevitably reboot it. They'll get a little distance, but as long as you're paying attention, you'll be able to bring it back to 0% before they move at all.

From this point, it's just a matter of keeping their P.P. at 0% and running your hatch breakers (2 at a time) and collectors (4 on passive at once) until your hold is full. Shouldn't take more than a few minutes. Once you've got what you want, either kill them or leave.

This method works for piracy missions as well, although sometimes they won't high wake and you'll have to work fast depending on the security level of the system that you're currently in.

As I stated, some ships pose more of a hassle than others. I've successfully pirated high ranking pythons in my asp, but since they're both tough and skilled, it's not worth it in my book as I'm usually limping back in a severely damaged ship despite getting the good. choose your fights or wing up for the harder targets.


I think that's about all I can say about it.

Add me in game if you want more pointers, my name's the same as on here.

Huh. Alright, I've an ASPX sitting under a tarp, so I'll retrofit that and give piracy one more go. Question for you: why so many B-rated core modules in that setup of yours? I mean, I can see that all A-rated would put you over the power limit, but is there any particular reason I shouldn't put C or even D class stuff instead? They would be cheaper and lighter.

Also, what's so important about Agriculture/boom states? And do you have any idea why those ASPs I was dealing with were able to FSD (Low-wake, if I understand the terminology correctly) away so quickly?

 

[Dbrn47]

You don't need to damage ships to Pirate them anymore. Just shoot hatch breakers at them and collect the loot, then bow out when you see Authority drop in. Remember, hatch breakers go through shields now. Don't want to bother with a target that fights back? Make sure you target actual haulers... They may try to fight back at times, but not really enough that you'd need to worry. Your worst case should be haulers with an escort, but if you can't handle them, don't pull them over.

 

[Exiton]

Still doable if done properly. But it's just not worth the trouble.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

You don't need to damage ships to Pirate them anymore. Just shoot hatch breakers at them and collect the loot, then bow out when you see Authority drop in. Remember, hatch breakers go through shields now. Don't want to bother with a target that fights back? Make sure you target actual haulers... They may try to fight back at times, but not really enough that you'd need to worry. Your worst case should be haulers with an escort, but if you can't handle them, don't pull them over.

That's a reasonable tactic for systems with security where you don't want to do the high wake scan/follow dance.

I prefer the scan and follow though. Avoids getting bounties, you just get fines, which you can pay off in any anarchy system. Plus I find it more fun to do the follow routine and get a full hold from 1 ship rather than skim off multiple.

There again, i only have 32t of space of my pirate ship, so its quickly filled no matter what tactic i use.

 

[Dbrn47]

Still doable if done properly. But it's just not worth the trouble.

[url]http://savepic.net/8652796m.png[/url]

It's really not if you are in it for money, which I would imagine most pirates would be. The reward just doesn't fit the risk. Risk of being wanted in systems you are in, risk of being blown up or damaged by security and/or the target if it can fight back reasonably, reduced value due to black market stolen deductions. It can be fun and challenging though, for people who enjoy that aspect of it.

- - - Updated - - -

That's a reasonable tactic for systems with security where you don't want to do the high wake scan/follow dance.

I prefer the scan and follow though. Avoids getting bounties, you just get fines, which you can pay off in any anarchy system. Plus I find it more fun to do the follow routine and get a full hold from 1 ship rather than skim off multiple.

There again, i only have 32t of space of my pirate ship, so its quickly filled no matter what tactic i use.

Never had the patience to stalk a target until they jump somewhere less risky. Seems smart though.

 

[Argus Leadhead]

Huh. Alright, I've an ASPX sitting under a tarp, so I'll retrofit that and give piracy one more go. Question for you: why so many B-rated core modules in that setup of yours? I mean, I can see that all A-rated would put you over the power limit, but is there any particular reason I shouldn't put C or even D class stuff instead? They would be cheaper and lighter.

Also, what's so important about Agriculture/boom states? And do you have any idea why those ASPs I was dealing with were able to FSD (Low-wake, if I understand the terminology correctly) away so quickly?

I put the B rated modules on mainly because they've got a higher integrity in spite of their weight. Since it's only got the single 2D HRP, it helps having the tougher modules when there's a tough haul. Since the asp isn't the fastest ship, this one hits hard to compensate. It's a bit modified, but mostly low grade upgrades in the weapons (just to get the special effects) and grade 3 dirty drives.

From my experience, the only systems that will give mining NPCs Low temperature diamonds, every single time, are agriculture systems with at least one faction in boom. I'm not sure why it's those systems in particular, but it's been the case every time I move to a new hunting ground. High-population, agriculture, and boom combined means low temp diamonds.

I've noticed that ships that I've interdicted have been able to jump sooner than previously. It used to be the same cool down, but lately I've noticed that the ships I pull over have been hi-waking (to another system) before my FSD cool down is over. I'm not sure if it's intended or not, but I've noticed it as well. It actually seems to cut down on the time waiting for them to jump, since it lets me start my wake scan a few seconds earlier.

Hope that helps.