Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[Ian Skippy]

Flavor of the week. Sometimes its ten topics in a row about exploiting this or that, now we're back to PvP vs PvE. Soon we'll be going back and forth about basebuilding or something. I personally don't care, most of the complaining about Open is by people who dont play Open. Listening to their 'advice' is like asking a priest for relationship advice.

- - - Updated - - -

When fdev put in systems to allow miners and traders to employ npc bodyguards I will agree with that. Till then it sounds a lot like you making excuses for gankers again.
If ganking was symmetrical you might be right, but gankers aren't known for picking fair fights. Just how long do you think a T6 can stand up to a Cutter, even with mods etc? 3 seconds? 5?

Right, so you can be ganked 'in three seconds' without the defender being able to do *anything* about it, but some NPCs will protect you? If that is seriously something you believe you have no idea what you're talking about. FWIW: A skilled trader is NOT easy picking (although traders are almost by definition low-skilled in ED for some reason), and NPC bodyguards wont matter the slightest. Because the average trader has about zero skills beyond using an app for routes and knowing how to activate the docking computer, not even a fleet of corvettes will protect him against a skilled assassin. Ofcourse, to a skillless trader that means the attacker must be nerfed and a few dozen more corvettes must be given as support. God forbid one has to actually learn the basics of flight.

As always the truth is simple: nothing FD will ever do will compensate for the dramatic lack of skill from many traders, and as they themselves show no interest to learn to fly they will never want to be in Open and will always whine its so unfair and all that.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Right now gankers and pk-ers ARE the bad things, and it's not worth being in open unless you run a pvp build.

To many people that is not true. Just say "until there is more safety in Open I am personally not interested" and you're golden. But please dont pretend you speak for all of us, many people clearly prefer Open despite or even because of the chance of being 'ganked'.

 

[JosiahD]

They are a bad thing, and true C&P system should be priority I agree, also more reasons for pirates to atack traders / miners ETC.

And I think a statement "there is no point playing open unless u have PVP build is also monotone"

Miners and traders should be vulnerable traveling, they should employ escorts, mercenaries, for their protection, take less obvious routes and stay undetected, also learn to silent run and mod their ships to not get blown up instantly uppon interdiction.

Honestly this whole PVE group mentality boils down to simply refusing to engineer, and proteting engineers in general, have you ever thought about that?

I dont think any engineered trading / mining ship can even get killed in a gank without having more than 90% chance to slip the attacker

That might be all well and good, but with utterly ineffective punishment of crime at present (to discourage ganking), the resultant atmosphere contributing to the motivation for combat logging (thereby frustrating a certain type of PvPer leading to more ganking, pking etc), no NPC wingmates (to provide that escort you mention, for those not wanting to utilise other players or unable to), multicrew will lack the ability to use NPC crew (apparently further disadvantaging the solo or lone wolf player in open).....there isn't really much on offer in open for the PvEer if they wish to have a large population to play with but avoid non-consensual PvP. And we all know how much time, effort and frustration is required to get that engineered trader or miner you speak of just to avoid that unwanted ganking.....err, PvP. The utopic open mode you imply above is a LONG way off, exacerbated by the unwelcome attitudes of a subset of the PvP community and unlikely to ever meet a balance between the PvE and PvP perspectives.

Now, if the attitudes of a few certain types of PvPer were to change, then things might be different, but that ain't going to happen - and they'll still be ats and behave so even if all of those things I refer to above were addressed effectively. So what attraction is there in open for someone who just wants a PvE experience with a large diverse community without the hassle of jerks wanting to use them as content? Very little in the end - there's a few good reasons why Mobius is so popular. Some PvPers simply need to get a grip and understand that there's a lot of gamers who just don't want to play with them......period.

 

[MassiveD]

Honestly? I don't really care what you think, and the fact that you hear it over and over again doesn't make it wrong. Rather it means it is an issue for a lot of people, and it's not going to stop being an issue till it's addressed.

Or untill they are told to shut up, and go find a game they like, instead of trying to change the one they dont

And honestly, with the massive attention to PVP mechanic improvement, I'm confident that not only the natural selection is taking its course, but it's also on the right path, good stuff

Personally the fact that they are listening more to numbers and statistics than whiney forum dads, has given me great hopes and confidence in developers.

 

[NascentChemist]

Well, Hair Fuhrer has declared bankruptcy many times. I'm sure he thinks FDev should try it too.

 

[Sandmann]

Right, so you can be ganked 'in three seconds' without the defender being able to do *anything* about it, but some NPCs will protect you?/QUOTE]

As you know perfectly well that was a response to.the ridiculous "traders can always get away before they're ganked so it's their fault" victim blaming, but since he didn't answer it maybe you will since you're so wise and skilled... how long do you think a T6 can stand up to a Cutter? In fact since we're discussing ganking, let's change it to a Hauler vs Cutter. And just what actions do you propose the trader take to survive.this encounter since you're so ready to jump to the ganker's defence?

To many people that is not true. Just say "until there is more safety in Open I am personally not interested" and you're golden. But please dont pretend you speak for all of us, many people clearly prefer Open despite or even because of the chance of being 'ganked'.

And to many people it IS true so don't be so quick to denigrate. Oh and please point out where I spoke "for all of us"?

- - - Updated - - -

Or untill they are told to shut up, and go find a game they like, instead of trying to change the one they dont

You know that strategy applies both ways, right?

 

[MassiveD]

Right, so you can be ganked 'in three seconds' without the defender being able to do *anything* about it, but some NPCs will protect you?/QUOTE]

As you know perfectly well that was a response to.the ridiculous "traders can always get away before they're ganked so it's their fault" victim blaming, but since he didn't answer it maybe you will since you're so wise and skilled... how long do you think a T6 can stand up to a Cutter? In fact since we're discussing ganking, let's change it to a Hauler vs Cutter. And just what actions do you propose the trader take to survive.this encounter since you're so ready to jump to the ganker's defence?



And to many people it IS true so don't be so quick to denigrate. Oh and please point out where I spoke "for all of us"?

- - - Updated - - -



You know that strategy applies both ways, right?

Hauler can survive permanently by avoiding obvious routes , flying in silent running mode, or switching to solo.

It has been explained to you on at least 20 different threads by me alone.

It works for everybody whos not ignorant enough to sit down and try it / figure it out and give it a go

If you refuse to use tools provided to you, and figure out simple mechanics than i dont know what to suggest except for finding another game, like Star Citizen.

Altho in SC you will not only get ganked but also boarded and shotgunned in the nuts, so maybe stay in ED, gankers are more gental here, lol

 

[Sandmann]

Hauler can survive permanently by avoiding obvious routes , flying in silent running mode, or switching to solo.

It has been explained to you on at least 20 different threads by me alone.

It works for everybody whos not ignorant enough to sit down and try it / figure it out and give it a go

If you dont like it find another game, like Star Citizen.

Altho in SC you will not only get ganked but also boarded and shotgunned in the nuts, so maybe stay in ED, gankers are more gental here, lol

Wow, topic very nicely avoided. Ironic that you suggest he should go into solo when you're the one promting open play. Now answer the question I asked, not the one that's convenient.

 

[jasonbarron]

Hauler can survive permanently by avoiding obvious routes , flying in silent running mode, or switching to solo.

It has been explained to you on at least 20 different threads by me alone.

It works for everybody whos not ignorant enough to sit down and try it / figure it out and give it a go

If you dont like it find another game, like Star Citizen.

Altho in SC you will not only get ganked but also boarded and shotgunned in the nuts, so maybe stay in ED, gankers are more gental here, lol

Hahah, no, don't go to SC. From what I'm hearing the plan is to have more of a "gen pop" situation where the unicorns and lions all have to learn to get along

 

[JosiahD]

Or untill they are told to shut up, and go find a game they like, instead of trying to change the one they dont

And honestly, with the massive attention to PVP mechanic improvement, I'm confident that not only the natural selection is taking its course, but it's also on the right path, good stuff

Personally the fact that they are listening more to numbers and statistics than whiney forum dads, has given me great hopes and confidence in developers.

Yessir, that natural selection is working wonders. Tens of thousands have flocked to Mobius already and the migration is still ongoing....so much so Frontier is having to expand it. Meanwhile open is full of gankers, pkers and combat loggers if the forums are to be believed. Yep, the standard open mode is indeed endangered as a viable option for most players......especially if certain PvPers keep up their arrogant, holier than thou views.....

 

[MassiveD]

Wow, topic very nicely avoided. Ironic that you suggest he should go into solo when you're the one promting open play. Now answer the question I asked, not the one that's convenient.

What exactly is wrong with switching to solo?

I use to do it all the time before i learnt to fly and defend myself.

The problem is segregated player groups , or should i say cults, like Mobius.

Many games, like dark souls, lets u switch to solo untill you build confidence, but has better rewards and game elements in the Open mode, just like ED should have

 

[Sandmann]

What exactly is wrong with switching to solo?

I use to do it all the time before i learnt to fly and defend myself.

The problem is segregated player groups , or should i say cults, like Mobius.

Many games, like dark souls, lets u switch to solo untill you build confidence, but has better rewards and game elements in the Open mode, just like ED should have

I was commenting on your hypocrisy, not the mode switch. Now answer my question.

 

[MassiveD]

Yessir, that natural selection is working wonders. Tens of thousands have flocked to Mobius already and the migration is still ongoing....so much so Frontier is having to expand it. Meanwhile open is full of gankers, pkers and combat loggers if the forums are to be believed. Yep, the standard open mode is indeed endangered as a viable option for most players......especially if certain PvPers keep up their arrogant, holier than thou views.....

Yup and due to sheep flocking to mobius , wolves left the game completely, taking away population and revenue that both ED and FD so desperately need, which quickly encouraged FD to start firefighting by improving PVP and clinging to leaving community for dear life.

Natural selection is a wonderful thing, because it works off statistics and most efficient paths that yield greatest results.

Player segregation unfortunately is not compatible with any of that

- - - Updated - - -

I was commenting on your hypocrisy, not the mode switch. Now answer my question.

Which question? I've answered them all thoroughly

 

[Sandmann]

Yup and due to sheep flocking to mobius , wolves left the game completely, taking away population and revenue that both ED and FD so desperately need, which quickly encouraged FD to start firefighting by improving PVP and clinging to leaving community for dear life.

Natural selection is a wonderful thing, because it works off statistics and most efficient paths that yield greatest results.

Player segregation unfortunately is not compatible with any of that

Actually according to the theory of natural selection that would make the wolves extinct and the sheep the dominant species. You might like to find a better analogy.

 

[JosiahD]

Yup and due to sheep flocking to mobius , wolves left the game completely, taking away population and revenue that both ED and FD so desperately need, which quickly encouraged FD to start firefighting by improving PVP and clinging to leaving community for dear life.

Natural selection is a wonderful thing, because it works off statistics and most efficient paths that yield greatest results.

Player segregation unfortunately is not compatible with any of that

I suppose you think it's the sheep's fault, and not the wolf at fault in the first place? I coined a phrase a little while ago that might be appropriate to your analogy.....

It's easy for the wolf to say to the sheep that it'll be fun (in this case, open mode), when the fun to be had is at the sheep's expense.

 

[MassiveD]

Actually according to the theory of natural selection that would make the wolves extinct and the sheep the dominant species. You might like to find a better analogy.

Actually that would make sheeps run out of resources and die off due to disease.

Also Mobius is just 20k players, excuse me for laughing out loud when you lot call them "majority".

The game has roughly 1.5mil registered players, and in that perspective mobius should not be taken seriously when trying to ruin the game for everyone else

- - - Updated - - -

I suppose you think it's the sheep's fault, and not the wolf at fault in the first place? I coined a phrase a little while ago that might be appropriate to your analogy.....

It's easy for the wolf to say to the sheep that it'll be fun (in this case, open mode), when the fun to be had is at the sheep's expense.

Are you a twitter feminist or something?

Both sheep and wolves are equal members of the animal kingdom and are vital to a healthy eco-system.

Are you gonna go to the forest next and guilt trip wolves into seeing the errors of their ways? LOL

Keep your p.c. fallacies out of my VIDEO GAME.

This is the most amazing thing that i spend my time and money in the game fighting gankers to protect people like you lol

 

[jasonbarron]

I suppose you think it's the sheep's fault, and not the wolf at fault in the first place? I coined a phrase a little while ago that might be appropriate to your analogy.....

It's easy for the wolf to say to the sheep that it'll be fun (in this case, open mode), when the fun to be had is at the sheep's expense.

Of course it's the sheep's fault. Don't be a sheep! Didn't your parents teach you that?

@MassiveD, remember that crisis of faith I brought up last night? It's not getting any better

 

[JosiahD]

Actually that would make sheeps run out of resources and die off due to disease.

Also Mobius is just 20k players, excuse me for laughing out loud when you lot call them "majority".

The game has roughly 1.5mil registered players, and in that perspective mobius should not be taken seriously when trying to ruin the game for everyone else

Except the sheep (PvEers in this case) don't need the wolves (PvPers) in order to either survive or play. If anything, for certain types of so-called PvPers at least, it's exactly the opposite....the wolf needs the sheep more than the sheep needs the wolf.

And the majority is PvEers, which is a body of players larger than just Mobius, and Frontier themselves have said most players do not participate in PvP.

 

[Sandmann]

Do try to keep up.

I dont think any engineered trading / mining ship can even get killed in a gank without having more than 90% chance to slip the attacker

Just how long do you think a T6 can stand up to a Cutter, even with mods etc? 3 seconds? 5?

Hauler can survive permanently by avoiding obvious routes , flying in silent running mode, or switching to solo.

Wow, topic very nicely avoided. ... Now answer the question I asked, not the one that's convenient.

What exactly is wrong with switching to solo?

I was commenting on your hypocrisy, not the mode switch. Now answer my question.

Which question? I've answered them all thoroughly

 

[JosiahD]

Actually that would make sheeps run out of resources and die off due to disease.

Also Mobius is just 20k players, excuse me for laughing out loud when you lot call them "majority".

The game has roughly 1.5mil registered players, and in that perspective mobius should not be taken seriously when trying to ruin the game for everyone else

- - - Updated - - -



Are you a twitter feminist or something?

Both sheep and wolves are equal members of the animal kingdom and are vital to a healthy eco-system.

Are you gonna go to the forest next and guilt trip wolves into seeing the errors of their ways? LOL

Keep your p.c. fallacies out of my VIDEO GAME.

This is the most amazing thing that i spend my time and money in the game fighting gankers to protect people like you lol

And some people wonder why others speak up against the attitudes of some PvPers.....