So it wasn't you earlier talking about pve-ers being "whining forum dads"?
Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter
- Thread starter MassiveD
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So it wasn't you earlier talking about pve-ers being "whining forum dads"?
Honestly, I'm not saying it is easy; the engineers were definitely set up to encourage a broad brush gameplay approach, no denying it. But that isn't the same as it being impossible. The trader has to learn some new skills. And It doesn't require all of the engineers like I've done, it just requires a few key ones. If you're seriously asking for a good strategy I'm more than happy to work on a strategy with you. As is MassiveD, I'm sure, who helped me figure things out and who has made a real name for himself helping people with the game.
Deleted member 115407
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Engineers don't have to be all about offense.
Just engines and shields alone should be a huge bump up.
Sure, great point. But I think his question was more along the lines of how does the pure trader with no interest in combat access the engineers hidden behind either combat requirements or materials that can only be obtained through the destruction of various ships.
I personally feel no sympathy for any player too good to roll their sleeves up and actually play the other 90% of the game, though, so hard to identify for me. Why wouldn't a player want to increase their skills?
Edit: that last question was rhetorical, not directed at you
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Thanks for the offer, but I note you too avoided the question. Coming from the sidewinder end of things rather than the anaconda end, without billions in the bank, without going into solo/pg, and playing as a trader, ESPECIALLY with the time constraints of work, family etc...it's pretty close to impossible in any reasonable timeframe. This makes the OP's claim that 90% of gank victims could get away if they wanted to a slap in the face to anyone who's been ganked because the preconditions that he makes seem trivial are actually enormous. Victim blaming at it's best.
Oh and while I honestly do appreciate the offer and would enjoy taking you up on it, regrettably my own time constraints are enormous. In fact engineers pretty much killed my interest when I realised how much of a time sink it really is.
Sure, great point. But I think his question was more along the lines of how does the pure trader with no interest in combat access the engineers hidden behind either combat requirements or materials that can only be obtained through the destruction of various ships.
I personally feel no sympathy for any player too good to roll their sleeves up and actually play the other 90% of the game, though, so hard to identify for me. Why wouldn't a player want to increase their skills?
Edit: that last question was rhetorical, not directed at you
My question would be which engineers are those again?
All materials out there can be acquired from missions and or USS , not only from combat.
The main engineers that you need to have a gank resistant trading ship are:
http://inara.cz/galaxy-engineer/3
Palin - requires traveling and 25 unknown fragments to unlock
http://inara.cz/galaxy-engineer/10
Lei Cheung - requires to trade in 50 markets and 200 tons of gold to unlock
http://inara.cz/galaxy-engineer/11
Didi Vatermann - requires to have merchant rank, and bring 50 lavian brandy
Not a single combat requirement in sight
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Deleted member 115407
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Sure, great point. But I think his question was more along the lines of how does the pure trader with no interest in combat access the engineers hidden behind either combat requirements or materials that can only be obtained through the destruction of various ships.
I personally feel no sympathy for any player too good to roll their sleeves up and actually play the other 90% of the game, though, so hard to identify for me. Why wouldn't a player want to increase their skills?
Edit: that last question was rhetorical, not directed at you
I was under the impression that all mats could be attained without resorting to combat. Am I incorrect?
I am not sure if I understand the part in bold. The engineering process is the same no matter how you get your mats, and no matter how you paid for your ships. Some engineers have combat requirements, some trade requirements and some have exploration or mining requirements. To unlock all, you have to understand at least the basics of everything in this game. So a trader in Open can just do what everyone else is doing: collect modular terminals and UA fragments, drop in USS, scan stuff in bases, bring rares, mine ore and blow up ships for combat bonds.
As for why not everyone has an 'unkillable ship' is not because making the ship tough is difficulty, but because:
1) It takes a lot of time, so reduced cr/hr for a while.
2) You still need some skill even with mods.
I know many get upset about it, but even in the very first original Elite short story it was made perfectly clear that traders with poor skills would suffer terribly. Straight-line SC'ing not checking the radar, carrying wimpy shields with no HRP, having zero skill in the interdiction game, and knowing no tactic other than boost+jump is what gets you killed.
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Correct, but you need combat bonds to unlock some.
Deleted member 115407
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Disregard. Answered.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Failed communism - that's Animal Farm - the pigs were "more equal" than the others - it might better describe the attitude that some PvPers hold regarding the PvE "herd".
PvE players can (and do) play quite happily without PvP players - the reverse cannot be said for PvP players (else they'd not complain so much about PvE players wanting an Open-PvE mode). The (optional) segregation is real - we have had Solo, Private Groups and Open from launch.
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Bris Dekker for one.
No, I do not think you are incorrect...it's just that I've never really tried any non-violent means, so I can't speak with authority
I'm gonna screenshot this, and post it below every whining post I see you make
I'm sure I'll be heartbroken. Punched in the feels even.
And you wonder why people assume you're a ganker. You've done nothing to dissuade me.
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He doesnt say his way is better, he says he likes it better and doesnt want to play with your or me. Seems fair enough...
Deleted member 115407
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I'm of the opinion that it boils down to stubbornness, much of the time.
Correct, but you need combat bonds to unlock some.
Ah, good point! But that's just Todd The Blaster, right? Almost everything under his tree is combat related.
I could be wrong...
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No, I do not think you are incorrect...it's just that I've never really tried any non-violent means, so I can't speak with authority
Dude. I ganked a clean sidewinder NPC the other day for a mission test. I felt so bad afterwards
LOL
"I don't have the time to play the game like you do, therefore please dumb it down for me and remove obstacles"
Ahaha, this is glorious, thank you for finally admiting what we all already knew.
And make no mistake, when you say that, you are speaking FOR ALL the "PvE open" supporters, because that exactly is the true agenda, which as I said, all of us already knew
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Ok... it's my contention that to get to the point of engineerig the uber T6, it's going to be a lot easier if you have already gone through a combat "career path", got your billions in the bank and your fully engineered PvP ship and so on than if you have started at a sidewinder and worked your way up through a trader career path as far as a T6.
Would you concur?
I'm of the opinion that it boils down to stubbornness, much of the time.
Ah, good point! But that's just Todd The Blaster, right? Almost everything under his tree is combat related.
I could be wrong...
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Dude. I ganked a clean sidewinder NPC the other day for a mission test. I felt so bad afterwards
Oh c'mon...just admit it; part of you felt just as right as rain ganking that little . Didn't it?
Deleted member 115407
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It would have felt better had the test been positive
So, just FYI, you can't chase target out of system and have it count as a massacre target. Not per my test anyways.
Not directed at me, but I concur. Yes, starting out is going to be a lot harder for the little guy in the sidey...I assume. I haven't tried it in a long time. Not impossible, though. I don't believe that for a second. And "I'm a forum dad with severe time constraints" isn't going to cut it twice in the same thread my friend
Edit: and I'm really trying to have fun with this. Not trying to bruise anyone's forum crotch!
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