VR - Oculus or Vive?

[Tiayviel]

(...) which outclass the Vive wands thanks to finger tracking and a much better shape. Also, and this is mainly a personal nitpick, but the Vive pretty much requires you to provide your own headphones, whereas the Rift has them built-in (...)

Oculus Touch does NOT do finger tracking, don't mislead. This is finger tracking (Vive@CES): https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/5mdl0e/dominoes_with_finger_tracking/
Vive provides very good headphones with the set, they're just not built-in into the headset. You can also use your favourite headset easily because the jack is on a short cable going from the headset.
Also Oculus provides an inferior room-scale experience at a smaller area and worse tracking both on headset and hand controllers; fact.

That being said, Oculus is slightly superior when it comes to perceived ED quality; but in return you get god rays in vision which are much more annoying for me than a say 5% perceived graphic quality upgrade.

In the end it boils up to the question of what you prefer:
- seated experiences with a controller? go with Oculus
- true VR of walking in a huge space and being immersed? go with Vive

Yes, both are capable of doing all those things now that Touch is arrived, but in the end to reach a similar level of full VR experience you will pay more for the Oculus set but get a weaker system.
Also if you are into Fallout/Skyrim/Bethesda stuff avoid Oculus as well since Bethesda has a bone to pick with them and said they won't release those titles on Oculus.

The wireless adapter looks cool if it works well but its pricey. If it works well personally imam happy , i am sure oculus will include in cv2

The most interesting thing coming from htc is the adapter to use any item as a controller. This is ace if it works and you have space for it, sadly i dont but still its cool.

Wireless Vive add-on has already been tested by UploadVR-- don't need much more confirmation than this: https://gfycat.com/FaintDefinitiveChick
The HTC adapter not only lets you use any item as a controller but apparently is a gateway to full hand tracking (earlier gif): https://gfycat.com/IllinformedBruisedAmericanpainthorse

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Vive tracking may well still be better in large areas and i do agree its a nicer tracking solution imo but for my space i promise you my tracking is superb with constellation. i have fully tested my area 360 degrees. In comando crawling around, i must have looked a right tool ! ... With 3 cameras, 2 was usable but i did suffer from occlusion a bit.

Some are having issues with tracking but not all. So i am sure it will be fixed. Vive have had some teething issues too.

Honestly the difference between the 2 for most users is negligable and to carte blanche tell users to buy one the other is crap is just not true...... ssure rift and 3 cameras costs a bit more but the software package is mint and if you dont want the xbox pad and wireless adapter there is 35 -40 quid back there

Ideally before spending so much people would demo both, i am happy to demo to my rift locally to anyone near me.

I must admit , i am no facebook fanboy but the thing which does grind my gears is this notion that valve are the saviour of pc gaming and are this benevolent company and facebook are the evil enemy.

BOTH companies are as good/bad as each other just look at the small print in your steam euka and what happens to your game collection if you do not agree when valve change thier terms and conditions (which happens from time to time).
I do not know who is at faukt for vive not being officially supported on oculus store, i know most here like to blame oculus and have valve as the victim... Maybe, but its hard to argue with the comments from oculus that officially selling apps to vive users is easy money for them and there is no downside for them having vive people buying games on their store.

Pls excuse terrible typing on a phone

 

[lenna]

Oculus Touch does NOT do finger tracking, don't mislead. This is finger tracking (Vive@CES): https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/5mdl0e/dominoes_with_finger_tracking/

See Manus VR for the Haptic Gloves referred to.

However, since hand/finger tracking is currently irrelevant in Elite: Dangerous such discussions is merely point scoring and barely on-topic IMO.

All you VR people out there. Which in your experience is the better option? I am seriously thinking about getting one for the game, but wanted the best experience possible. I have a brand new rig that will do VR without breaking a sweat, but wanted to know, which gives the best visual, which is easiest to use, which has the better support and so on. Basically what has been your experience and which would you recommend over the other or are they pretty much the same?

To address the last part - other than perceived subjective differences in quality of the audio solution, and the presence of a head-cam on the VIVE with it's notable absence on the Rift - as far as this game is concerned they can probably be considered pretty much the same at this point in time.

Whether the VIVE will prove to be a better investment in the long run once we get Space Legs is a matter that only time will tell.

 

[Aio]

How can people reply and recommend a hmd without having tested both. Also the test should be done with proper configuration of both sets. It is sad to see all the fanboy propaganda. I would not buy based on the information given in most of the replies in this forum...

 

[lenna]

How can people reply and recommend a hmd without having tested both. Also the test should be done with proper configuration of both sets. It is sad to see all the fanboy propaganda. I would not buy based on the information given in most of the replies in this forum...

I have actually used both (the Rift with another game/simulator though) - and other VR solutions in the past - and while I have bought into a specific VR solution I would not (without reservation) recommend anyone buying into a specific VR solution at this time.

People are well capable of commenting on their "personal" experience with one solution or another, it is all valid points and largely just opinions. Even if a given person has not tried another solution their opinions still have merit. I am sure the OP is perfectly capable of drawing their own conclusions.

As for most of the information being "fan-boy propaganda" - hardly, most of it is pure opinion and most of the side discussions are irrelevant to the OP's original main question. WRT specific perceptions about technical capabilities of one solution or another - you need to only look at the various "allegedly" independent comparative reviews to get a feel for the actual truth to the matter. Most reviewers seem to not consider the Oculus Rift to implement room scale VR for example - but that could have changed since they reviewed it.

• Tech Radar
• Trusted Reviews
• Arstechnica
• VR Heads
• Wareable
• Digital Trends

All seem to favour the VIVE, but essentially seem to consider the Rift and the VIVE roughly equal.

FTR I tried to order an Oculus from Amazon because it was cheaper than the VIVE and I did not see myself using the hand controllers much. However, Amazon hit a supply problem after offering initially "Next Day" delivery (and I ordered it for Saturday delivery). In the end I bought the VIVE through Overclockers UK and got it next day as promised (and for a few quid less than advertised on the Steam store at the time).

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

Now, for the record, whilst this *may* sound like fanboy ranting, these are all quite valid points to consider.

Just for the record, I'm not a 'fan' of the Vive at all, there are just a few points I strongly dislike about Oculus (leaving the FB issue aside):

- Their decision to include Xbox controllers encourages Devs to develop focused on that. I use a Wheel and pedals for racing games, Hotas and a different set of pedals for flight games and for everything else, I want M/KB. Unfortunately many devs don't support the latter properly because 'everybody has a controller' thanks to that policy. I have 5 console controllers sitting around - I just don't want to use them in VR.
- Integrated headphones lead to complete lack of a speaker option. Most Vive developers aren't much better in that regard, but whilst the Vives earplugs are decent and having multiple decent headphones sitting around, I try avoiding headphones in VR whenever possible.
Hitting the boost button using a 120 decibel 5.1 system at full range settings provides a significantly more visceral experience in ED. It's not about which headphone solution is better, I don't want to use headphones at all.

It pushes devs into developing for customers using a console controller with headphones which is the most meagre experience imaginable.

The rift is lighter and better ergonomics too.

True - however imho PSVR beats them both in that regard (whilst being the heaviest) due to putting the pressure on the forehead rather than the face.

The vivw has an outward facing camera which is nice

Never used the camera after playing around with it for the first few days. Imo it's a useless feature. Could be interesting with stereoscopic cameras synched to the IPD.

The "facebook" software is no difference to instakling steam and steam vr so that is totally unfair imo. I hate facebook and never use it btw and kirks comment makes it sound like you are forced to use facebook account which is not true

It sends all your data to facebook servers. Given FB's recent Whatsapp data exchange shenanigans and their ridiculous attempt to exclude other HMDs using 'piracy' as a straw man, I wouldn't trust them an inch.
Of course that's a personal decision and doesn't have anything to do with the rifts hardware, but I don't feel comfortable using a product owned by a company that made spying on their customers their business and that's trying to stab them in the back at every opportunity.

I'm not a fan of Valve either, but whilst my browser blocks dozens of FB tracking attempts during a short browsing session, I don't have that issue with Valve.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Just to add... I do not consider myself a rift fanboy or a vive fanboy..... I am certainly a VR fanboy however. I have barely touched a game on a monitor except when forced to playing with mates, since june/july 14.

For me there is no going back, though going forward this gen rift edged it for me, next gen who knows, but i suspect my next hmd will use inside out tracking so no cameras or lasers needed.

I would say the pros and cons of both headsets are largely covered now, and i would say the take home message is probably decide what you want it vor and try before you buy then make the call.

About the privacy stuff. I use windows 10 without any blocks in place so that horse has well and truly bolted for me

 

[lenna]

Never used the camera after playing around with it for the first few days. Imo it's a useless feature. Could be interesting with stereoscopic cameras synched to the IPD.

I take it you can touch type and have your ED environment setup so you can use your keyboard blind then?

If not, then you are probably having to remove the headset in order to use the keyboard like I have had to before I got the camera working. Now I have it working, I think it could help me avoid having to do that. Not 100% sure on that score but we will see.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

I take it you can touch type and have your ED environment setup so you can use your keyboard blind then?

Yes - I've used the DK2 for way over a year and thousands of hours before the Vive was out. Got used to do everything I normally do in front of my computer (type, eat, drink, smoke, making coffee) without taking it off within the first few days.

 

[dogbite]

All you VR people out there. Which in your experience is the better option? I am seriously thinking about getting one for the game, but wanted the best experience possible. I have a brand new rig that will do VR without breaking a sweat, but wanted to know, which gives the best visual, which is easiest to use, which has the better support and so on. Basically what has been your experience and which would you recommend over the other or are they pretty much the same?

Since you said "the game", I am going to assume your main motivation for getting into VR is ED. As far as I have read it (and I find the members of this forum to be at least as viable a source of opinion on this question as elsewhere since we all play "the game") those who own both lean toward the Rift.
All the points pro and con for either HMD are valid enough, when considering what else you might play. If you are ,for example, considering you might want to get the biggest play area so you can crawl around on the floor, you might go Vive. If your interests lie in a more sedate seated play style (although games like Dirt Rally aren't really all that sedate, hehe) you might go Rift for say, reasons of comfort.
I can't speak to the Vive as I only own a Rift. I can say that I spent 5 months ingesting everything I could while hovering over the cancel button and considering Vive. For my play style (ED, DCS, AeroflyFS2, IRacing, Dirt Rally. Assetto Corsa, etc), I am happy as a pig in poop with my choice.
Only thing worse than deciding which to buy would be not deciding, IMO. VR is the only way I will play now.

 

[Globusdiablo]

All you VR people out there. Which in your experience is the better option? I am seriously thinking about getting one for the game, but wanted the best experience possible. I have a brand new rig that will do VR without breaking a sweat, but wanted to know, which gives the best visual, which is easiest to use, which has the better support and so on. Basically what has been your experience and which would you recommend over the other or are they pretty much the same?

I bought the Vive. It seemed like a more complete VR package, and I could try before I'd buy at a local retailer (makes it easier to sell second hand down the line). Not possible with the Rift here in Denmark.
I prefer Steam to Facebook. The Rift does seem to be more "plug and play", where the Vive suggests wall mounts and needs 5 power sockets...

TL; DR: If you have limited space, only intend to play seated VR, and live in the US, I guess the Rift is the better option (but I would probably still buy the Vive... I'm not making any sense... Sorry... )

 

[lenna]

I bought the Vive. It seemed like a more complete VR package, and I could try before I'd buy at a local retailer (makes it easier to sell second hand down the line). Not possible with the Rift here in Denmark.
I prefer Steam to Facebook. The Rift does seem to be more "plug and play", where the Vive suggests wall mounts and needs 5 power sockets...

TL; DR: If you have limited space, only intend to play seated VR, and live in the US, I guess the Rift is the better option (but I would probably still buy the Vive... I'm not making any sense... Sorry... )

There is another interesting point ion support of the VIVE that has been raised in this thread already after a fashion but has been summed up quite nicely by Techcrunch...

If you’re a VR diehard who’s personally invested in ensuring that virtual reality remains an open platform, buy the HTC Vive. While Oculus and PlayStation are all about the exclusives, HTC is buying into Valve’s SteamVR system, which hopes to ensure that one piece of content will play across headsets.

In essence, if you want to see VR Gaming be a growing experience do not buy into the Oculus/PlayStation-exclusives cool-aid.

The war between the VIVE and the Oculus on the PC is reminiscent of the old Beta Max versus VHS video cassette war of the 1980's. To my mind, the VIVE is the VHS of the solutions due to it's commercial approach. The Oculus could still survive along side the VIVE but I think they may have to stop trying to be an exclusive platform.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

There is another interesting point ion support of the VIVE that has been raised in this thread already after a fashion but has been summed up quite nicely by Techcrunch...

In essence, if you want to see VR Gaming be a growing experience do not buy into the Oculus/PlayStation-exclusives cool-aid.

The war between the VIVE and the Oculus on the PC is reminiscent of the old Beta Max versus VHS video cassette war of the 1980's. To my mind, the VIVE is the VHS of the solutions due to it's commercial approach. The Oculus could still survive along side the VIVE but I think they may have to stop trying to be an exclusive platform.

Loads say this about rift being close platform, but i have yet to see proof of this statement. It may be true but all i know is ocukus have said they would love to officially support the vive on their store but they cant because they do not have access to what they need hardware wise...... To allow the vive to use the oculus sdk.

As i said i am not saying it isnt true but logically i can not see any upsides for oculus allowing rift users for buying on steam but blocking vive users from the oculus store... Hell i am a rift user but because vive cant go on oculus store i buy most of my games from steam . This ismhurting oculus, how can it not?

Generally most profit is made from store sales..... Unless people are suggesting oculus should allow their store exclusives on the steam store? Which in the interest of balance then that must mean they also think all steam exclisives shoukd be on oculus store too?

 

[Alec Turner]

I cant say i agree with catpain kirk on this. I would put them dead even now with each having advantages. Sure to get full room vr working ideally it costs a little more than vive but you get more games, an xbox pad with wirless adapter and imo the ocukus touch are far nicer motion controller. The rift is lighter and better ergonomics too.

Its not all rift tho, imo the lighthouse tracking is a nicer solution without usb cables all over the place.

Vive has a slightly better fov but slightky worse screendoor effect (negligabke either way)
Rift has over all better image quality imo but vive better contrast

Why ultimately i wnt with the rift

At the moment the software is better for the rift imo, ASW and ATW works better than steams asynchronous reprojection and imo elites rift support beats vives support.
Guardian is better than vives equivalent, vives has to be a box, rifts its far more flexible

Of course that is sodtware and coukd change at any time

The vivw has an outward facing camera which is nice and i wish rift had one but the rifts headphones are fab

The ocukus store is so mu h better than steam imo. Valve need to get their house in order imo and get some quality confrol on there. Oculus has funded some fine titles many free with rift (cant wait for robo recall)

So over all imo there is no clear winner but for my needs rift edges it

The "facebook" software is no difference to instakling steam and steam vr so that is totally unfair imo. I hate facebook and never use it btw and kirks comment makes it sound like you are forced to use facebook account which is not true

Other comments
The rift being dead because oculus not bringing out new stuff..... So the new headband and speakers for vive is htc playing catchup imo. They headphones detach from the rift so you can still use your own.
The new motion crontrols in development for vive look like touch rip offs to me.

The wireless adapter looks cool if it works well but its pricey. If it works well personally imam happy , i am sure oculus will include in cv2

The most interesting thing coming from htc is the adapter to use any item as a controller. This is ace if it works and you have space for it, sadly i dont but still its cool.

I was surpeised ocukus had no real presence at ces but

Oculus are still innovating, thier internal prototype has ditched cameras for inside out tracking which is better than both constellation and lihthouse.

Combine this with vives wireless and that will be great . We really shoukd not be wishing for the failure of either hmd, monopolies never help the consumer

Pls excuse phone typing

Out of rep but terrific writeup!

 

[Alec Turner]

The war between the VIVE and the Oculus on the PC is reminiscent of the old Beta Max versus VHS video cassette war of the 1980's. To my mind, the VIVE is the VHS of the solutions due to it's commercial approach.

This made me laugh because I've been thinking exactly the same thing. I originally went betamax because I believed it to be the better solution (still do) even tho ultmately it didn't survive. This time round I've gone Oculus (again because I've been following its development longer and it seems to me to be a slightly better solution) and the funny thing is I do have my fears that it may turn out to be the "betamax" of the two. When VHS overtook betamax it wasn't because it was better but because the companies behind it somehow convinced more people to stock, produce videos for and sell that solution. I'm starting to see signs of the same things happening with Vive. I have to say I'd be very sad to see Oculus go the way of betamax (but I still don't regret my purchase - it's a lovely bit of kit and I will always treasure these early VR experiences and am really glad I jumped when I did).

 

[Tiayviel]

Loads say this about rift being close platform, but i have yet to see proof of this statement.

For example: http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/21/11729188/oculus-rift-update-revive-app-block-htc-vive - an unnecessary and clear move that caused enough lashback even for Oculus to take a step back in the end.

 

[lenna]

This made me laugh because I've been thinking exactly the same thing. I originally went betamax because I believed it to be the better solution (still do) even tho ultmately it didn't survive. This time round I've gone Oculus (again because I've been following its development longer and it seems to me to be a slightly better solution) and the funny thing is I do have my fears that it may turn out to be the "betamax" of the two. When VHS overtook betamax it wasn't because it was better but because the companies behind it somehow convinced more people to stock, produce videos for and sell that solution. I'm starting to see signs of the same things happening with Vive. I have to say I'd be very sad to see Oculus go the way of betamax (but I still don't regret my purchase - it's a lovely bit of kit and I will always treasure these early VR experiences and am really glad I jumped when I did).

Technology wise, I personally think the VIVE is the better "technical" solution overall although the Oculus implementation does have it's benefits I can also see technical issues with it in certain environments due to the nature of it's approach. The approach taken with the Oculus seems to be essentially the same as the Google Cardboard/Samsung Gear VR albeit with a notionally higher resolution display. The VIVE uses a technique of positioning that seems to have similarities with a particular project I worked on several years ago and IMO is quite an elegant approach (FTR the particular techniques used in that project was not my idea nor my implementation and it was not implemented as well as the VIVE seems to be - better and more modern version of the technology I guess).

As I already stated, I believe that the Oculus product line need not suffer a comparable demise to the Beta Max if the Oculus team adopt the Open VR/Steam VR API approach like the VIVE team seems to have.

 

[Full_Ninja]

When VHS overtook betamax it wasn't because it was better but because the companies behind it somehow convinced more people to stock, produce videos for and sell that solution. I'm starting to see signs of the same things happening with Vive. I have to say I'd be very sad to see Oculus go the way of betamax

They didn't convince anyone it was simply the more affordable solution, that is why vhs won.

 

[Frank]

For example: http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/21/11729188/oculus-rift-update-revive-app-block-htc-vive - an unnecessary and clear move that caused enough lashback even for Oculus to take a step back in the end.

I plumped for a CV1. It was very difficult to decide which headset to buy. I weighed up the pros and cons very carefully. FaceBook's involvement with Oculus was a massive mark in the "cons" column. With this sort of behaviour that mark is going to be even bigger for when I'm choosing my next headset.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

Loads say this about rift being close platform, but i have yet to see proof of this statement. It may be true but all i know is ocukus have said they would love to officially support the vive on their store but they cant because they do not have access to what they need hardware wise...... To allow the vive to use the oculus sdk.

Which is why they tried adding hardware DRM in 1.4 as linked by Tiayviel. That's what I referred to when I mentioned FB trying to backstab its customers at every opportunity. They only drew in their horns after facing a massive baclkash and they'll try again as soon as they think they'll have attracted enough sheep to get through with it.

As i said i am not saying it isnt true but logically i can not see any upsides for oculus allowing rift users for buying on steam but blocking vive users from the oculus store... Hell i am a rift user but because vive cant go on oculus store i buy most of my games from steam . This ismhurting oculus, how can it not?

Generally most profit is made from store sales..... Unless people are suggesting oculus should allow their store exclusives on the steam store? Which in the interest of balance then that must mean they also think all steam exclisives shoukd be on oculus store too?

I've thought about their reasoning when that particular incident happened and concluded they think they have enough of a bolster with Zucklers unlimited cash founding them. Once they bribed enough devs into making their games exclusive and getting enough people to use their platform, those people will stick to it due to having bought games on it and not willing to lose them due to switching to another HMD.

I know plenty of seemingly smart people sticking to Apple because they were early iPhone adopters and don't want to lose their apps.