Frontier. Please make a PVE mode to this game.

[Apos]

That's not the kind of pretend I had in mind, and you know it. The difference is in the amount of direct involvement. Any player has a LOT of input when it comes to their pilot / ship. There's no direct involvement when it comes to minor factions.

What happens to an argument that is based on an objectively wrong premise?

Are you saying that all dangerous games participants got there without direct involvement? Was it by chance?

Was this by chance?:

Spoiler

Good thing we cleared it up boys. All BGS players are losers who chase a fairytale, getting bigger ships is where it's at.

You know nothing John Snow.

 

[JosiahD]

I believe it is important that we focus on the merits of adding an Open PvE. When I really think about what Open PvE adds to the game, I'm left feeling short. I'm left asking for things that already exist or can be more easily achieved in other ways. Improving PGs seems like the obvious answer to me, though I'll admit, I'm not an expert in how all of that works and if it is reasonably feasible.

What I'm tired of seeing are Open complaints..."well, these people, they are there and they don't play nice" is the gist of the argument. I need more than that, I need to see good reasons for adding another mode of play over improving the existing ones. (C&P for open and better support for PG)

The principal benefit is that an open PvE mode would enable the bringing together of all (or at least most of) those players wanting an open PvE experience who are currently split across multiple private groups (including multiple Mobius PGs) and god knows how many playing in solo. It's no more complicated than that. But, of course, opponents are seemingly so threatened by that because it will be such an obvious and simple menu choice instead of the current open that we get some really spurious arguments against it. There are implementation considerations to be resolved, true, and seemingly little appetite from Frontier at present for an open PvE mode, but there is no need at all to overcomplicate the principal benefit of it - it's simple and has relatively little impact on open as most of those who will use it have already left open anyway. Unless people are threatened by the prospect of losing more players from open who don't want PvP and that many PvPers seem to suggest shouldn't be in open anyway......

 

[Shaamaan]

What happens to an argument that is based on an objectively wrong premise?

Are you saying that all dangerous games participants got there without direct involvement? Was it by chance?

Was this by chance?:

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/RHZx4NX.jpg

Good thing we cleared it up boys. All BGS players are losers who chase a fairytale, getting bigger ships is where it's at.

You know nothing John Snow.

So, playing the BGS is just like flying the ship for you? You have a button on your UI "expand here", you press it, and an expansion happens? Sheesh, I think I'm running some old version of the game client, because I can't see that option anywhere.

No, there's no such button. Again, there's no direct involvement. There's indirect involvement (or miniscule direct, however you want to call it).

As for those players playing the BGS - yeah, they kind of are chasing a fairytale. I wouldn't call them losers tho unless they come on the forums whining that they can't shoot up the players opposing their chosen faction. Otherwise, if that chase makes them happy, then more power to them.

In any case, this is vastly off track. It started with the argument that people won't be able to oppose each other when gaming the BGS in a PvE mode but it's a rubbish argument. Again, the design of the game, from the ground up, allows players to play without any opposition from other players. As for a PvE mode, no one who seeks to oppose players will ever play it, simple as that.

 

[Apos]

So, playing the BGS is just like flying the ship for you? You have a button on your UI "expand here", you press it, and an expansion happens? Sheesh, I think I'm running some old version of the game client, because I can't see that option anywhere.

No, there's no such button. Again, there's no direct involvement. There's indirect involvement (or miniscule direct, however you want to call it).

As for those players playing the BGS - yeah, they kind of are chasing a fairytale. I wouldn't call them losers tho, so well done on projecting here.

Arguably, playing the BGS is easier than flying my ship for me.

I still suck at FA: Off.

But it's ok. It's good thing we cleared up that you know what the right goal to have is in this game. I should immediately stop playing the BGS and start trying to combat build my Cutter to make amends for my heresy.

 

[Andovar]

It's still a moot point, because
a) solo and PGs exist, so the game, from the design, doesn't permit anyone from opposing everyone else at their leisure
b) in a PvE mode those scenarios become races rather than direct oppositions... and anyone playing in that mode KNOWS about it...

So if someone wants to do anything related to the BGS and wants to be able to actively stop opposing players, why would that person choose the PvE open to begin with? They wouldn't. That still no reason why a PvE couldn't exist - those who would be playing in the PvE mode would just do the BGS actions and not seek the direct opposition.

It's not a moot point. I may not be looking to actively oppose players, and I understand that there could be hidden opposition through the other game modes. But if I'm seeing another CMDR right in front of my eyes doing something at odds with my goals, then I might just want to attempt to stop him right there. But I can't because all my weapons would be magical no-harm-cmdr smart rounds?
I'm sorry, but that sounds incredibly cheesy to me.

I'm a PvE'er, but cannot come up with any scenario where I see this open-pve system working well.
Personally I'd much rather they work on a proper crime and punishment system.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

So, playing the BGS is just like flying the ship for you? You have a button on your UI "expand here", you press it, and an expansion happens? Sheesh, I think I'm running some old version of the game client, because I can't see that option anywhere.

No, there's no such button. Again, there's no direct involvement. There's indirect involvement (or miniscule direct, however you want to call it).

As for those players playing the BGS - yeah, they kind of are chasing a fairytale. I wouldn't call them losers tho unless they come on the forums whining that they can't shoot up the players opposing their chosen faction.

There's no such button, but I would compare it more to engineering your ship: there are multiple steps to go through, various game play to complete, and then achieving your goals, after careful planning.

As far as personal/individual influence: I ran a 15 system faction by myself for a while, and got it to expand to a couple more, and took some systems. One CMDR. (It obviously goes quicker when operating with a larger, coordinated group effort). Those systems now buy and sell tobacco, where they didn't before, they have different announcers and outside colors and affiliation branding.

If you get wanted in AEDC-managed space, you better have a decent jump range on your ship, or you'll be passing a lot of places where you'll be wanted too...

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I hate to be the one to break it too you but it's all pretend.
It's a pretend ship your flying, earning pretend credits or exploring pretend planets or fighting other pretend ships.

In other breaking news, if another player blows up your pretend ship it's only a pretend pilot that gets ejected into space and only pretend credits you lose, so to cause an uproar about, I find a bit silly

Of course this stance is objectively correct no doubt...... But try going into dota 2 and doing a "Leroy" and see how that argument pans out, or deliberately wreck a race in iracing.

Some of us get rather protective of our game pixels, esp when we invest a lot of time in them, or feel the game is taking a direction different fromthe one painted when we backed the game.....?

(This is neither a pro or anti PvE thought... Its just a fact, and if that makes gamers sad or pathetic then so be it.

Taken to the absolute extreme would be if one of your mates wiped your account for lols. Its only a digital save, nothing technically lost, bur chances are if my mate did that he would get my very physical nothing virtual about it boot up his gluteus maximus whilst being ejected from my house

 

[Shaamaan]

It's not a moot point. I may not be looking to actively oppose players, and I understand that there could be hidden opposition through the other game modes. But if I'm seeing another CMDR right in front of my eyes doing something at odds with my goals, then I might just want to attempt to stop him right there. But I can't because all my weapons would be magical no-harm-cmdr smart rounds?
I'm sorry, but that sounds incredibly cheesy to me.

I'm a PvE'er, but cannot come up with any scenario where I see this open-pve system working well.
Personally I'd much rather they work on a proper crime and punishment system.

I'm sorry, but the first paragraph is at odds with the second. First you state you want to act against players doing something you don't like. In the next you state you are a PvE-player. You can't have one AND the other.

 

[askavir]

Difference being that in Solo you can pretend it happened elsewhere, or some other time. In Open PvE it would be very un-immersive.

Being an immersion junkie myself, I fully agree. But there's the thing, none of us would have to play in a hypothetical OpenPvE mode if we don't want to.

On the topic of being an immersion junkie, I have to add these things that I also find deeply un-immersive:

-suicide rammers
-every single in-game story event unrelated to combat being instantly turned into a pointless session of CoD in space: dev events, alien mistery events, alien crash sites, alien ruins, etc etc etc.

Care to guess in which mode this happens?

Even though I always played in open since launch, I there was such a mode as OpenPvE I would hands down have used it for all these events unrelated to combat of any kind. My idea of finding alien ruins on a distant planet is arriving and seeing a crapload of parked ships from people all over the bubble, SRVs everywhere exploring the ruins. Of course what really happened is arriving and seeing again the usual trolls tainting the unique event, like every single farting time.

You may say that its within the rules and they have the right to troll every single event in the game, and you're right, but that does not invalidate that these things make for a... lets call it "intestinal" game world, which in turn results in an intestinal game experience. Most people tend to dislike intestinal gameplay experiences in their games.

Some players would prefer to be rid of the intestinal parts of the game, without having to isolate themselves in solo of fragmented groups. And very honestly I can't blame them, and I sincerely hope they end up getting it. I even bet one of my nuts that it would provide a much better game experience for most story events, and much more opportunities for coop gameplay.

You are obviously strongly against it. But the question is, what do YOU lose if they have it, that makes you so strongly against it?

 

[Marra Morgan]

As for those players playing the BGS - yeah, they kind of are chasing a fairytale.

Well, at least we have something in common with Open PvE crowd

 

[Shaamaan]

You are obviously strongly against it. But the question is, what do YOU lose if they have it, that makes you so strongly against it?

I'd rep you again solely for this line, but I can't. :/ Sorry.

 

[Andovar]

I'm sorry, but the first paragraph is at odds with the second. First you state you want to act against players doing something you don't like. In the next you state you are a PvE-player. You can't have one AND the other.

Let me make it clearer. I Play the Environment. I don't actively seek out other players to fight. Sometimes they attack me, and sometimes I'll fight back, but I'll usually run. If there's a wanted CMDR jacking up my system, I might engage him to attempt to stop him from messing with my system, the same way I would engage a wanted NPC.
Being a PvE'er doesn't mean I have to be 100% devoid of player conflicts. PvE is a playstyle.

You are obviously strongly against it. But the question is, what do YOU lose if they have it, that makes you so strongly against it?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'll respond anyway.
If FD could just flip a switch and have it, then fine by me. But I believe it would be quite complex to implement, and therefore I'd rather they spent that time and development effort to implement a robust C&P system.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You are obviously strongly against it. But the question is, what do YOU lose if they have it, that makes you so strongly against it?

I am not strongly against it. I am strongly against hypocrisy and though. And some here are supersensitive about immersion when that is a position that supports their desired direction, and completely forget about it whenever it suits them. I dont like some of these 'Open PvE guys' consistently lying about how Open currently is. I dont like how some here totally ignore David Braben's rather clear answer on this topic but constantly paraphrase a meaningless and unrelated comment from a dev. I dont like how some here pretend everyone not clamoring for OpenPvE is a griefer, or an 'apologist'. Basically, I dont like how so many here have to go full- because they cant simply say "I want OpenPvE because that is what I consider fun." Which is a perfectly fine position. The only thing I have against Open PvE itself is the possibility it may take considerable devtime to add. If the devs said "Its a two days job, no problem." I'd be okay with it being added.

- - - Updated - - -

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'll respond anyway.
If FD could just flip a switch and have it, then fine by me. But I believe it would be quite complex to implement, and therefore I'd rather they spent that time and development effort to implement a robust C&P system.

This, basically.

 

[Quineloe]

As long as a wanted murderer with a six figure bounty can dock at a station where he is both hostile (ie security is firing at him even before scanning him) and wanted at, reload, repair and most importantly *undock*, the calls for a PVE open play will remain loud and clear.

The game is just so hilariously skewed towards mass murder.

 

[Vorxian]

transcribed the important parts of DBOBE's stance on PvE open... from last May.

"unless we absolutely ban ... PvP *things* eg if you make ramming not PvP, people will still do it, and it would mean you're invulnerable.. and you end up with things that mean the game is more broken. If we can enforce more laws and rules in the game that make it feel more natural (talks about bounties) then it would encourage more open PvE as opposed to open PvP... it's a balance."

Soo

My thoughts are thus :

You can tell he's in front of the media and being very Switzerland

He's making a heartfelt sentiment that an open mode with more laws and rules will encourage more OPEN PvE as opposed to Open PvP..

In order to encourage Mobius players to move to OPEN in this event, C&P would have to be so swift and brutal that anyone starting an unprovoked attack will be dispatched faster than one can retract hardpoints. Can't see that working myself.

Ramming is a moot point, because players in Mobius do not harass others by ramming them

Question is... what additional laws and rules will encourage Mobius players to OPEN?

If there are none.. then a request for a unified Mobius is still a much better option for its playerbase... rather than to break open PvP in an attempt to lure people in that just won't go anyway...

Rock and hard place.

42:40 is the bookmark for Open PvE question
[video=youtube;gEtHu3AXw2Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEtHu3AXw2Q[/video]

 

[Deadspin]

Well, at least we have something in common with Open PvE crowd

I couldn't help myself.

 

[sewerratuk]

transcribed the important parts of DBOBE's stance on PvE open... from last May.

"unless we absolutely ban ... PvP *things* eg if you make ramming not PvP, people will still do it, and it would mean you're invulnerable.. and you end up with things that mean the game is more broken. If we can enforce more laws and rules in the game that make it feel more natural (talks about bounties) then it would encourage more open PvE as opposed to open PvP... it's a balance."

Soo

My thoughts are thus :

You can tell he's in front of the media and being very Switzerland

He's making a heartfelt sentiment that an open mode with more laws and rules will encourage more OPEN PvE as opposed to Open PvP..

In order to encourage Mobius players to move to OPEN in this event, C&P would have to be so swift and brutal that anyone starting an unprovoked attack will be dispatched faster than one can retract hardpoints. Can't see that working myself.

Ramming is a moot point, because players in Mobius do not harass others by ramming them

Question is... what additional laws and rules will encourage Mobius players to OPEN?

If there are none.. then a request for a unified Mobius is still a much better option for its playerbase... rather than to break open PvP in an attempt to lure people in that just won't go anyway...

Rock and hard place.

42:40 is the bookmark for Open PvE question
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEtHu3AXw2Q

Sooo, your quoting DB and suggesting it's bull poop and he didn't really mean what he was saying?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Being an immersion junkie myself, I fully agree. But there's the thing, none of us would have to play in a hypothetical OpenPvE mode if we don't want to.

On the topic of being an immersion junkie, I have to add these things that I also find deeply un-immersive:

-suicide rammers
-every single in-game story event unrelated to combat being instantly turned into a pointless session of CoD in space: dev events, alien mistery events, alien crash sites, alien ruins, etc etc etc.
?

And this is 90% why i left open

 

[Vorxian]

Sooo, your quoting DB and suggesting it's bull poop and he didn't really mean what he was saying?

Nope. I'm asking folks: What it would take in regards to more laws and rules; to encourage the Mobius playerbase to swoop to OPEN mode, and would these rules break open as a result? (since this appears to be DBOBE's chosen focal point).

 

[Ian Skippy]

Nope. I'm asking folks: What it would take in regards to more laws and rules to encourage the Mobius playerbase to swoop to OPEN mode? (since this appears to be DBOBE's chosen focal point).

Depends. Some of them want better secured high-sec space, and punishment for murderers. Others will never go Open because they dont like the antics in principe, regardless of the mechanics around it. There is no one reason why people dont play Open, and there is not one solution to get people in Open. And for some, there is literally no solution to get them in Open.

Which is totally fine.