Vindicator Jones Discusses Fundamental Game Improvements

[[VR] Bac Ho]

Another excellent video from Vindicator Jones [up], once again VJ you have hit the nail square on the head.

Oh please, pretty please, Frontier take note and implement a crime & punishment system something along these lines. You (Frontier) want Commanders coming back to open with meaningful players interactions with more in depth gameplay, then look no further than is video.

 

[Cosmos]

Great Vid, but to me the damage done to open is already done and nothing FD do is going to fix it to where they want it to be.

The so called Karma system mentioned but with no time frame or any new news about it, has left me doubting its going to be anywhere near what it should be, it might and I might be wrong and open will be the bustling hub that it should be. Bu the longer it goes with out a proper CP system the more damage is done and the more people drift away from open once they find out what PG's are and how solo means well just that solo.

VJ brings up some nice alternatives to making the game more attractive in open, and if there where things like that then sure I might give open a go again, but if you can do those things for the same rewards in PG or Solo why bother playing in open.

Should such a karma system be implemented it stands to rights solo and pg would have to go.

 

[Cosmos]

I just watched this, thinking oh here we go an SDC vid, how wrong I was. Learnt so much I diddnt know.

Not saying I'm off to open or anything but there are more than a few good tips in this.

Notice he got banned for posting that.. And I'll likely get banned for pointing out what he got banned for. You see how this works?

 

[Julio Montega]

Notice he got banned for posting that.. And I'll likely get banned for pointing out what he got banned for. You see how this works?

That is absolutely outrageous.
Ban me too for helping people, please.

 

[Whitehair]

Notice he got banned for posting that.. And I'll likely get banned for pointing out what he got banned for. You see how this works?

Really?

Why is he banned but the video still there?

 

[lokvette]

Notice he got banned for posting that.. And I'll likely get banned for pointing out what he got banned for. You see how this works?

Well i might as well join you, removed said vid, if that was why he got banned, which is kind off odd if he gets banned for the vid but the vid is still here...

But the vid is very useful,I normally dismiss a lot of what SDC post's but this one is very useful to players like me who spend a lot of time in solo or PG, but maybe think ahh ok i'll give open a another go, isn't that what FD want.

I commented on youtube, reddit and discord just how useful it is ...

 

[TomP]

Notice he got banned for posting that.. And I'll likely get banned for pointing out what he got banned for. You see how this works?

Whoah, whoah, whoah!

He got banned for that? Really?

Jesus. This plumbs a new low.

What is on that video is basic common sense, and something which shouldn't need explaining to most forum members. But it does need explaining, bizarrely.

The number of times I've tried to explain Hi-Wake to forum members, with them resolutely remaining in denial. Shields, armour, etc. It's all so bleeding obvious. Or at least it should be...

Good video, Rinzler, SMH.

 

[Whitehair]

Whoah, whoah, whoah!

He got banned for that? Really?

Jesus. This plumbs a new low.

Evidence for connecting a video post that is still on the forum with a forum ban?

ZERO.

Hyperbole? Yes in spades.

Cosmos "of course" has all the inside info to be able to make that statement.

 

[Julio Montega]

You forgot about the bit where the trader gets blown up for no reason coming into/landing at the station..

Also, this dosent negate the need for an effective crime and punishment system.

Your Karma idea can be exploited way too easy with said methods.
You get griefed in a station by rammers, you loose karma.

Why not do the first step before expanding into new territory:
c&p exists
c&p does not work regarding PvP because of non-existant ties to the BGS and faction rep
make c&p work for PvP by flagging players as being part of the governing faction, so rep is lost upon PvP kills.
etc.

Evidence for connecting a video post that is still on the forum with a forum ban?

ZERO.

Hyperbole? Yes in spades.

Cosmos "of course" has all the inside info to be able to make that statement.

The original thread featuring the video is gone,
that was the infraction i guess. This looks like censorship to me however.

 

[Cosmos]

Greetings fellow CMRDs and Frontier Development.

If you haven't already, take the time to watch the latest post on Vindicator Jones' channel. You'll find another great example of some balanced and well thought out ideas that address the fundamental mechanics of Open gameplay.

The issues of Combat Logging, Griefing and Ganking are becoming an ever increasing problem within the game and I feel it needs to be more actively prioritised be Frontier. There are many sound ideas out there to address them and this is another great example.

I would personally like to see the very heart of Elite Dangerous beating at full strength, rather than being prescribed endless patches and point updates that act like steroid injections, often only masking the real health issues of the game.


https://youtu.be/uksaImGXAEY

Well there is some merit in what was spoken about in the video, although its been suggested many times before, however the rant is full of derp and false assumptions..

Here are a few:

'no reason' - usual trite rubbish, everytime I shoot at another player I have my reasons.
'getting good is not an option' - for the love of god go watch rinzlers latest video.
'not condusive to good gameplay' - so VJ what in your expert opinion is 'good gameplay'?
'pvp player groups think open belongs to them' - no, they don't.
'you must play solo or pg' - omg what drivel is this?
'pvp player groups should not have a monopoly on how Open works' - we don't

so suggesting people play in solo and pg is wrong? Frontier put these modes in the game.. what else are they for? DERP!

'insulting other players with terms such as carebear'.... Are you for real? I've lost count the insults thrown towards anyone who dares shoot at another player.. 'its not what a good pvp pilot does' - what would VJ know about being a good pvp pilot? lmao

'outright bullying' - omg have you ever read the forums?

'murderous psychopaths' - I thought you said calling people names wasn't on? Ah, i see how this works now..

'killing for absolutely no reason' - keep saying it bud, maybe if you keep pushing the false point you'll believe it yourself.

'Surprised I'm saying this?' - not one little bit since you asked.

'Just for the sake of it' - ugh

'understanding why people adopt this playstyle' - amateur psychology in effect lads.. I mean what is wrong with these people shooting at others when we pilot ever increasingly heavily armed spaceships.. Someone call the pOlice!

'see how it works both ways' - how very smug, enjoyed the close up on that, i presume behind the visor there is a big cheesy grin.

edit: taking a break.. part II coming soon

 

[sewerratuk]

I just watched the vid from SDC , thinking oh here we go an SDC vid, how wrong I was. Learnt so much I diddnt know.

Not saying I'm off to open or anything but there are more than a few good tips in this.

edit: see below ...

Would this be the latest vid by Rinzler? The one he got banned from the forum for?

 

[Han_Zen]

Your Karma idea can be exploited way too easy with said methods.
You get griefed in a station by rammers, you loose karma.

Why not do the first step before expanding into new territory:
c&p exists
c&p does not work regarding PvP because of non-existant ties to the BGS and faction rep
make c&p work for PvP by flagging players as being part of the governing faction, so rep is lost upon PvP kills.
etc.

I'm skeptical of a Karma system as well. If it's a player only system, I'm against it. Haven't really seen a functional description of it yet, so no judgement yet.

Most of the problem can be solved with three small fixes, in my opinion.

- Do not clear legal status on death. Let it cool of over time(one week like the bounties?).
- If a player dies in a station instance as wanted, re-spawn them in a different station (last visited).
- Give NPCs the tools to enforce the crime system we already have.

I don't think anything more is needed.

 

[lokvette]

Would this be the latest vid by Rinzler? The one he got banned from the forum for?

Yes..........

 

[Julio Montega]

I'm skeptical of a Karma system as well. If it's a player only system, I'm against it. Haven't really seen a functional description of it yet, so no judgement yet.

Most of the problem can be solved with three small fixes, in my opinion.

- Do not clear legal status on death. Let it cool of over time(one week like the bounties?).
- If a player dies in a station instance as wanted, re-spawn them in a different station (last visited).
- Give NPCs the tools to enforce the crime system we already have.

I don't think anything more is needed.

To warrant that this works the players need to be tied and knit into the BGS
without that link, there is no effective policing of playermurder.
NPCs already have the tools, and if FD cook the police up more
there will be no space for beginner pirates and people who do NOT use
the defense meta bull-poo.

 

[Cosmos]

Part II as promised..

'right now its the kiddies with the biggest guns..' - worth point out again that how is this different to calling people carebears? Oh yeah, what you mean is that you are free to use pejorative terms but anyone who has a different view point is not. Right..

'Open should be a social zone...' well it is, but you appear to want to control what people can do, according to your own ideology.. Sounds like fascism to me.

'everyone should have the choice of engaging in the favourite activity whilst minimising their exposure'... They ALREADY DO.. solo and PG.. God give me strength.

'there has to be a balance that benefits all players' - This reminds me of listening to a Feminist.. Are you sure you want equality? Because if you PvE'rs really want that you are going to have to forgo your present priviledge.

'non consentual'... Call me old skool but when I use the word consent, and its rare, its usually to defend myself against false accusations where 'consent' was in question, usually when I am falsely accussed of (never actually happened btw). You really think this sort of language is applicable to the game? Hmm..

'Its a tough nut to crack' - hahaha, depends on the nut we are speaking about but nice word bro.. This whole quagmire is a bit nutty imo.

I heard the 'no reason' again.. okay, I need another break..

 

[vindicator jones]

Well there is some merit in what was spoken about in the video, although its been suggested many times before, however the rant is full of derp and false assumptions..

Here are a few:

'no reason' - usual trite rubbish, everytime I shoot at another player I have my reasons.

Murdering someone just for sharing the same space as you is not a reason. I dont care how you justify it.

'getting good is not an option' - for the love of god go watch rinzlers latest video.

A newbie commander with less than 100 hours of gameplay time getting melted in under 5 seconds by a combat FDL gives very little room to get good.

'not condusive to good gameplay' - so VJ what in your expert opinion is 'good gameplay'?

Good gameplay is where everyone, regardless of skill level can participate without being forced to play your way, but still allows players to do murder and cause mayhem, but with the associated risks and consequences for doing so.

'pvp player groups think open belongs to them' - no, they don't.

Oh yes they do.. lol.. not all just a few.

'you must play solo or pg' - omg what drivel is this?

Because that is what griefers like to spout.. if you dont want to play by our rules in open, go to solo or private groups.

'pvp player groups should not have a monopoly on how Open works' - we don't

Telling commanders that they have to accept being your content in open, and then blowing them up for nothing is having a monopoly..

It boils down to this...

Crime and Punishment is there to give a challenge to those who like to just seal club for no reason. If you have a problem with being challenged for behaving in such a manor suggests a lot about your playstyle.

You say to traders to git good and harden up, well maybe its about time people who seal club need to harden up and accept the consequences of their actions with a functioning crime and punishment system.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Part II as promised..

....

'Open should be a social zone...' well it is, but you appear to want to control what people can do, according to your own ideology.. Sounds like fascism to me.

...

You should chill a bit. Look a bit at Viper Mk III - it helps me in times of sillyness.

 

[Cosmos]

Cosmos "of course" has all the inside info to be able to make that statement.

What was the last post he made?

- - - Updated - - -

You should chill a bit. Look a bit at Viper Mk III - it helps me in times of sillyness.

I'm fine but thanks for asking

- - - Updated - - -

Well there is some merit in what was spoken about in the video, although its been suggested many times before, however the rant is full of derp and false assumptions..

Here are a few:



Murdering someone just for sharing the same space as you is not a reason. I dont care how you justify it.



A newbie commander with less than 100 hours of gameplay time getting melted in under 5 seconds by a combat FDL gives very little room to get good.



Good gameplay is where everyone, regardless of skill level can participate without being forced to play your way, but still allows players to do murder and cause mayhem, but with the associated risks and consequences for doing so.



Oh yes they do.. lol.. not all just a few.



Because that is what griefers like to spout.. if you dont want to play by our rules in open, go to solo or private groups.



Telling commanders that they have to accept being your content in open, and then blowing them up for nothing is having a monopoly..

It boils down to this...

Crime and Punishment is there to give a challenge to those who like to just seal club for no reason. If you have a problem with being challenged for behaving in such a manor suggests a lot about your playstyle.

You say to traders to git good and harden up, well maybe its about time people who seal club need to harden up and accept the consequences of their actions with a functioning crime and punishment system.

I've obviously hit a raw nerve here. If you are going to make videos to promote your views, hiding behind passive aggressive language, then be prepared to be challenged.

btw.. did you ever read the bit where we play in a cutthroat galaxy, set against a backdrop of raw anarchy and powerplays (Frontiers words, not mine) ??

 

[Lateralus]

Evidence for connecting a video post that is still on the forum with a forum ban?

ZERO.

Hyperbole? Yes in spades.

Cosmos "of course" has all the inside info to be able to make that statement.

He confirmed on discord that he was banned for posting the video... it's offensive apparently (despite it being hugely informative and helpful to newbs).

Edit: Interestingly enough, I'm sure he posted similar videos in the past without any issue... Is it the swearing that's the problem, or the topic? My bet is the latter...

 

[vindicator jones]

What was the last post he made?

I've obviously hit a raw nerve here. If you are going to make videos to promote your views, hiding behind passive aggressive language, then be prepared to be challenged.

btw.. did you ever read the bit where we play in a cutthroat galaxy, set against a backdrop of raw anarchy and powerplays (Frontiers words, not mine) ??

LOL, your gonna have to do a lot better than that to even coming close to hitting a nerve.. The day I care what someone like you has to say is the day I stop playing the game.. I love all the hate, it just spurs me to keep making more content!

You claim this is a cutthroat galaxy, and sure in anarchy space (like it says in your quote) and low security, this is exactly how it should be, High security should not be cutthroat. Just because you THINK it should be, dosent make it so. If everywhere was anarchy space, then I would agree with you.

The fact remains, if you cant handle having a system in place where you are now challenged for roleplaying a terrorist, and have to suffer the consequences of it, then maybe its better if you head to solo or play private group.

Im sorry if your offended by my passive aggressiveness, but I just find the whole thing hilarious, and seeing the griefers get all salty is just making my day even more special.

I find it so deliciously ironic when griefers talk about getting gud to handle the dangers of open, but they dont want to handle the dangers of a crime and punishment system..

Challenge me.. go ahead, im loving it