General / Off-Topic Northern Ireland...a very unique problem

[verminstar]

Id really hate to have yet another argument on a thread where Im basically having a rant. There was a misunderstanding which has since been cleared up...we all have misunderstandings so lets not all lose our heads over it. Sure as hell, Ive had enough of arguments fer one lifetime so now Im gonna chill out, get stoned and play computer games to try and forget this hateful place they call reality...

I would recommend the same while I respectfully ask anyone else posting to simply ignore said misunderstanding and not force me to ask the mods to close the thread. There was/is a valid argument which is ongoing as we speak in this little country...our wee country as we call it is tiny in comparison to other nations, but its my home nonetheless and right now, its coming apart at the seams.

The sad part being that my daughters generation should have been free from this sorta rubbish...we have had violence and death in every generation fer 500 years and the hope was we had stopped it once and fer all. There is no apetite fer a return to that...some hardliners on both sides do want a return to that...unable to let go of our past.

If its any consolation, the off topic section is the only part of this game I still read up on, having lost interest in the rest of this game...temporarily of course. So my saltiness is now condensed into one place and Im not trolling dd anymore...silver linings and all that.

 

[Adept]

Best of luck to you Verminstar, and everybody else who would be effected by a return of the Troubles. I knew there would be trouble over the border if the UK does end up leaving the EU, but this is an unwelcome complication to say the least.

 

[verminstar]

Best of luck to you Verminstar, and everybody else who would be effected by a return of the Troubles. I knew there would be trouble over the border if the UK does end up leaving the EU, but this is an unwelcome complication to say the least.

Worst about it being this has absolutely nothing to do with brexit...thats a whole other can of worms...we live in interesting times to say the least. The border really cant be policed...even I know a score of back roads that see very little traffic. Why and how I know them isnt relevant, but the point is I know them to be 100% safe because they arent even on a map. Good sturdy 4x4 highly recommended...put the seats down and fill up on...whatever ye wanna fill up on.

Then it goes east and eventually onto scotland...hell I can make that crossing on a jetski so one can see the potential immediately if one has a mind to avoid customs.

How they police that is beyond me...couple thousand british troops and even a fleet of helicopters couldnt do it and consistently failed over three decades, so how anyone else can succeed where everyone else has failed? At this point, a united ireland would actually make it easier, not harder and profits would treble.

In this case, even some loyalists would support that simply because they stand to make a fortune.

 

[Gortron]

Worst about it being this has absolutely nothing to do with brexit...thats a whole other can of worms...we live in interesting times to say the least. The border really cant be policed...even I know a score of back roads that see very little traffic. Why and how I know them isnt relevant, but the point is I know them to be 100% safe because they arent even on a map. Good sturdy 4x4 highly recommended...put the seats down and fill up on...whatever ye wanna fill up on.

Then it goes east and eventually onto scotland...hell I can make that crossing on a jetski so one can see the potential immediately if one has a mind to avoid customs.

How they police that is beyond me...couple thousand british troops and even a fleet of helicopters couldnt do it and consistently failed over three decades, so how anyone else can succeed where everyone else has failed? At this point, a united ireland would actually make it easier, not harder and profits would treble.

In this case, even some loyalists would support that simply because they stand to make a fortune.

I'm worried about asking this for fear of it being taken the wrong way but I think you will know it is just genuine curiosity.... Suppose for whatever reason (say Brexit) NI leaves the UK and joins the republic. If, given the choice, would you rather move to another part of the UK or stay put and reluctantly end up living in the Republic?

 

[Moonax IRL]

I cannot stand Martin McGuiness on a personal note. He chills my blood.

However, forgetting about that and looking at a wider picture - it's pretty bad news.

All I can say is, Martin McGuinness wouldn't have quit had he thought SF would lose from what was to happen, no matter how much a principled stand he says it is. So, one thing's for sure, Unionism is going to get some damage.

I think most people in politics do want Stormont to continue and there will be attempts to avoid direct rule if at all possible. If there was (forgive me, I cannot remember Good Friday agreement terms etc), I think there would not be a 50% involvement from the Irish government - that would be a red rag to a bull - but I'm sure there will be some sort of soft involvement.

Either way, it's sad for Norn Iron/6 Counties/Ulster/whatever you want to call it. But are there signs that anyone can stomach the way it was before? I don't live there now, so I am not sure, but I really hope it's not the case.

Now, this is the Ulster I'm more familiar with!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38586270

Height of technology, hey!

I think in fairness to Martin McGuinness he has made every effort to accommodate unionism and build bridges but the nationalist community have been disrespected and their goodwill squandered by the sense of superiority/disdain held in DUP & co circles. We all know about his history but he has been genuine in his efforts, and such has being recognised even in unionist circles.

Nationalists/Republicans will not be treated as 2nd class citizens and the GFA will be abided by to the letter or else Joint Authority will be the next solution tried. The DUP antics have just galvanised nationalists in common cause, as always unionism shows itself hopeless to read the situation. If direct rule is implemented and a hard Brexit then the Irish government will just have to start the push for a border poll and a United Ireland ahead of schedule.

- - - Updated - - -

Northern Ireland has my sympathies. That country has been through hell, and deserves time to recover. The Good Friday Agreement has helped a lot. Now some thieving shysters (my opinion) want to de-rail that GFA for the sake of a few quid in their pocket. I hope that unbiased authorities find out who came up with that scheme, and drops them down the deepest hole in Ireland.

That would be the DUP, the Democratic Unionist Party. They pushed for and implemented the scheme and even when informed of the fact that it would run out of control, stuck their fingers in their ears and did nothing to limit the scheme and the projected damage of approximately 1 Billion pounds sterling.

 

[Moonax IRL]

As a more general thought, I am getting very bored with the whole 'the people's confidence in the elite is at an all time low!' talk. Considering the efforts of 'the people' to improve anything has rarely extended beyond 'whining in the pub', I cant say I have less confidence in 'the elite' than in 'the people'. If the Irish people have a problem with something, maybe they should do something. Like go into politics. But as that means making an effort, I am sure we'll just going to see a lot of angry tweets and facebook posts. And after that its back to beer, football and computer games.

We all get the leaders we deserve...

I am fairly sure you have little understanding of anything that happens or has happened in Ireland in a political sense or otherwise. That`s why your post comes across as clueless.

 

[Gortron]

I am fairly sure you have little understanding of anything that happens or has happened in Ireland in a political sense or otherwise. That`s why you post comes across as clueless.

You are a lunatic. You must have heard of Beetlejuice... if someone says NI 3 times you appear.

 

[Moonax IRL]

You are a lunatic. You must have heard of Beetlejuice... if someone says NI 3 times you appear.

Would you rather the forum be censored to suit your liking, maybe give the Mods a shout.

 

[Gortron]

*deleted* Not really related sorry about that.

 

[Stigbob]

I think in fairness to Martin McGuinness he has made every effort to accommodate unionism and build bridges but the nationalist community have been disrespected and their goodwill squandered by the sense of superiority/disdain held in DUP & co circles. We all know about his history but he has been genuine in his efforts, and such has being recognised even in unionist circles.

Nationalists/Republicans will not be treated as 2nd class citizens and the GFA will be abided by to the letter or else Joint Authority will be the next solution tried. The DUP antics have just galvanised nationalists in common cause, as always unionism shows itself hopeless to read the situation. If direct rule is implemented and a hard Brexit then the Irish government will just have to start the push for a border poll and a United Ireland ahead of schedule.

That would be the DUP, the Democratic Unionist Party. They pushed for and implemented the scheme and even when informed of the fact that it would run out of control, stuck their fingers in their ears and did nothing to limit the scheme and the projected damage of approximately 1 Billion pounds sterling.

Your absolutely dreadful medieval bias is showing it's very ugly face again.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Your absolutely dreadful medieval bias is showing it's very ugly face again.

I see you are living up to my previous estimation of clueless.

 

[Stigbob]

I see you are living up to my previous estimation of clueless.

I'm sure you'll find a way to blame that on specific groups of people you dislike.

 

[Moonax IRL]

I'm sure you'll find a way to blame that on specific groups of people you dislike.

I don`t dislike anyone, I do dislike ignorance in all its facets, its a shame some people seem to revel in it instead of educating themselves.

 

[Stigbob]

I don`t dislike anyone, I do dislike ignorance in all its facets, its a shame some people seem to revel in it instead of educating themselves.

You are the only person in this thread trying to blame a mishandled subsidy on one faction in an attempt to fan the flames of hatred and intolerance and push back against that pesky inconvenient peace process, you most definitely are part of the problem.

 

[Moonax IRL]

You are the only person in this thread trying to blame a mishandled subsidy on one faction in an attempt to fan the flames of hatred and intolerance and push back against that pesky inconvenient peace process, you most definitely are part of the problem.

I voted for that peace process and support its proper implementation as per the legislation in question. Did you vote for it?
Re. the "Cash for Ash" read a newspaper, inform yourself and tell me who is responsible for the mess, instead of again showing your ignorance. Making a fool of yourself in an effort to criticize me looks pitiful.

 

[Stigbob]

I voted for that peace process and support its proper implementation as per the legislation in question. Did you vote for it?
Re. the "Cash for Ash" read a newspaper, inform yourself and tell me who is responsible for the mess, instead of again showing your ignorance. Making a fool of yourself in an effort to criticize me looks pitiful.

You didn't vote for peace.

 

[Moonax IRL]

You didn't vote for peace.

Well done, you`ve just upgraded yourself from clueless to moron status.

 

[Stigbob]

Well done, you`ve just upgraded yourself from clueless to moron status.

You'd never vote for peace. You can't, it goes against your internal monologue of division, abuse and finger-pointing.

 

[Pyrotiger]

People know how to use ignore, right?

Good Friday agreement, like it or not, also allowed release of terrorists, gave Dublin a say and was a tangible reward for the armed struggle (some might say). Not all who voted for it were for peace at any costs, and not all against it were for violence.

Armtwisting was a constant factor during the process, amongst politicians and voters. But ultimately the will of the people in voting yes seems to have been ignored with this fiasco - and by Martin McGuinness.

Westminster didn't dissolve when the expenses fiasco occurred, and you could argue that was an event involving greater corruption and duplicity.

Let's just say that the blame for this Cash for Ash (I don't think the band are involved!) lies with the DUP and cronies. Are we saying that Nationalists and Republicans have never exploited any money making scams in NI? Of course they have! Cross community organisations took a lot of money from European funding, when they were heavily from one side of the community, maybe with an occasional token prod to make it look better. Crossborder bodies? Far from ethical. Also, when it comes to screwing the welfare state, Nationalists/Republicans wrote the book on it. Yet I don't see any big enquiries into this or Stormont coming down because of it.

Martin McGuinness didn't just resign because "he is a nice person". Political capital is being made from the blame game game, as always. If Stormont falls, I say stick the murderers back in jail! I bet Martin would beg for his job back then.

 

[beelbeebub]

Before we all end up at each others throats.....


If I understand the scandal correctly didn't it all originate from a technical mistake

Effectively the calculation of the subsidy gave a figure higher than the cost of the material.

Is there any evidence that

A)it was a deliberate design rather than incompetence

B)any of those who were directly involved in its creation benefited.from it financially

It seems like a shame for the peace in NI to go backwards because of a flubbed green heating scheme. I mean it's hardly Watergate or the Profumo affair....