or ln() for that matter?
Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 9 - The Canonn
- Thread starter Ian Phillips
- Start date
- Status
or ln() for that matter?
I think the data scan will tell us which Obelisk we have to scan next...
I find it very hard to believe that Frontier designed a puzzle that can only be solved in Multiplayer... and with relogging..
People are getting random activated obelisks in Open because of luck...
I think you can solve this puzzle in one go in Solo play, we just have to find the correct order of scanning[wacky]
I agree about having to find the correct order, and I think something in a successful scan is the key. I haven't tested the idea that certain obelisks don't deactivate when scanned if you don't have the correct pair, but do have the "key" item, but others have and it seems to work. What if you get a successful hit from say, Casket + Orb, and then go and check out the Orb sections to see if you can find an Orb + Casket as a matching pair? In fact, I think I'll go and check this out now.
It's entirely possible that this has been mentioned somewhere in the last 900 or so pages, but 900 pages so it's going to be quicker to test it I think.
Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
Ive really enjoyed watching the Canonn work their way through this event. So, here are my thoughts so far.
What is the nature of this puzzle? In all probability pattern recognition. Something is triggered at one part of the ruins leading to an opportunity on the other side.
Can this be completed in Solo? Its possible but improbable as the task might be too tall for one CMDR to crack and recognize what changes might have occurred. If activated Obelisks are randomizing after relogging, server stability becomes a real challenge and makes things next to impossible.
Given this is a possible turning point in the games narrative, its likely a concerted effort like no other will be required to move things along. A private dedicated server with multiple CMDR's (one per cluster and some on the ground) monitoring changes in the layout might be whats required, Crystal Maze style. Youd expect (famous last words!) once all 100 logs are filled, the next step would be revealed. The server stability issue could be tackled if a CMDR gets disconnected but others remain in the instance providing a reliable and persistent environment.
Let me know your thoughts!
What is the nature of this puzzle? In all probability pattern recognition. Something is triggered at one part of the ruins leading to an opportunity on the other side.
Can this be completed in Solo? Its possible but improbable as the task might be too tall for one CMDR to crack and recognize what changes might have occurred. If activated Obelisks are randomizing after relogging, server stability becomes a real challenge and makes things next to impossible.
Given this is a possible turning point in the games narrative, its likely a concerted effort like no other will be required to move things along. A private dedicated server with multiple CMDR's (one per cluster and some on the ground) monitoring changes in the layout might be whats required, Crystal Maze style. Youd expect (famous last words!) once all 100 logs are filled, the next step would be revealed. The server stability issue could be tackled if a CMDR gets disconnected but others remain in the instance providing a reliable and persistent environment.
Let me know your thoughts!
Just want to share a musing of mine. Reading that the guardians supposedly had a love of geometry reminded me of how the UA's gave a wire frame drawing of the ships when they were scanned.
I've hit a wall at the Ruins after collecting 13 correct scans:
I've seen that others have mentioned finding a few more, but I can't seem to get these:
Apparently I need URN + TABLET for TECH11 & LANG11 (from Group C), but none of them return any results.
RELIC + ORB = CULT11; RELIC + CASKET = HIST16; and TOTEM + CASKET = HIST13, should all be from Group G, but again I get no results.
I've tried scanning after all 4 Pillars have risen, but still nothing.
Does anyone have any tips?
I've seen that others have mentioned finding a few more, but I can't seem to get these:
Apparently I need URN + TABLET for TECH11 & LANG11 (from Group C), but none of them return any results.
RELIC + ORB = CULT11; RELIC + CASKET = HIST16; and TOTEM + CASKET = HIST13, should all be from Group G, but again I get no results.
I've tried scanning after all 4 Pillars have risen, but still nothing.
Does anyone have any tips?
![BigBANGtheory [VR]](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/71/71385.jpg?1644873788){kind=avatar}
My gut feel is that we need to switch the ruins site on somehow and thus receive a bulk load of data transmissions.
Even if say the ruins is doing some "Stone Henge star map thing" and points you towards say the California Nebula.... that is one big area of space to search even if you narrow it down to 1 planet or moon.
What we need to look for imho is ways of discovering new leads and information so for example not scanning messages per se but rather can we get the ruins to do anything out of the ordinary.
Even if say the ruins is doing some "Stone Henge star map thing" and points you towards say the California Nebula.... that is one big area of space to search even if you narrow it down to 1 planet or moon.
What we need to look for imho is ways of discovering new leads and information so for example not scanning messages per se but rather can we get the ruins to do anything out of the ordinary.
I think the data scan will tell us which Obelisk we have to scan next...
I find it very hard to believe that Frontier designed a puzzle that can only be solved in Multiplayer... and with relogging..
People are getting random activated obelisks in Open because of luck...
I think you can solve this puzzle in one go in Solo play, we just have to find the correct order of scanning[wacky]
I do believe in that to. But we need to find how to interpret the response. What is alpha? A cluster? A latitude? A clock hand position? A time? A number? A timer? An object? A quantity? A wave?
- - - Updated - - -
What If the long structure was an antena in the Center of the main circule and fell down?
ABOUT RUINS PURPOSE.
I know most of it was mention many times, but I started active participation in thread just two days ago so I will quickly drop my thoughts I had in last weeks/months:
Ruins themselves:
They were never the city in my opinion. It is too small in the first place. Let's put a fact that the planet is airless on the side for the moment and let's assume it has atmosphere at one point in time. Sure, there is like big depression in the ground (in planet scale) "near by" that could be see or lake and some "plains" around, however it will make it nothing more like agricultural settlement at most - and we know from data, that society was more hunter so farms (probably necessary anyway) will be lower on a list of things to build in the middle of nowhere.
Now let's look from point of airless planet from a beginning - it is more fitting:
We know now that they used advance shield technology so they would be able probably keep atmosphere inside dome if they in need. However in my opinion it was never intended to have one. What is the biggest advance of airless environment?
1)At first, lack of corrosion - you can build anything from metal that would survive ages or millennia without destruction force of corrosion and with no need of maintaining it on daily/yearly basis.
2)Secondly - reducing impact of biological weapons (again, we know Guardians were using this kind of warfare thanks to data) either if it microbiological element or macro-biological one. Sure, some microbiology forms can survive in vacuum but usually it is hibernated stance when they are not multiplying massively only surviving and the macro-biology one, can build they own spaceships (flower power for example? [wink] ) and only then they are able to harm installation. But for that reason and one other important - we have another protection that we know about now - thanks to data collected.
What is the, other than lack of air and massive radiation, drawback of lack of atmosphere? It is lack of protection against meteorites that atmosphere itself provides. To the certain size point naturally. On surface most of airless planets we meet in ED we can clearly see, effects of millennia of meteorites bombardment. But now, thanks to data, we know that there was a way that Guardians could secure installation against meteorites and presumable "ant-farm octagonal rebels" raid. [wink]
It was the advance shield technology that they had.
All build into a wall structures looks like elements that can support shield dome. Same for elements on top of the rounded peaks (A and F). Was it a dome that was wider then "wall" structure (maybe even a few miles wider) or was a "wall" the shield border (which is interesting, because it leaves G structures on kind of landing/resupply pad with two "stations" and one beacon outside of shields) - there is no way to tell. To be honest it is all speculation anyway, because we are just gathering knowledge from scratch.
Back to the point. If its not a city, then in my opinion, from the very beginning, it was planed and build as simple, well protected, data storage bank. Build in specific purpose so even a layout could have a "data storage" meaning. Not to mention structures that are kind of data banks.
What is important in that case, for me, is a fact it has to have some kind of instruction/manual for all elements that is on structure itself. Like simple colour/signs/shape on every PC. This works with that and etc.
Now, we are failing at the moment to find one obvious but even a fact that certain structures group works only with certain relics as a main one, support thesis that there should be a pattern of some kind.
I can think of situation, when ships or probes were landing on G structures to download new data or take one from banks, or downloading through beacon. Maybe even some structures are long range (perhaps intergalactic) antennas. If that was a case it was obviously destroyed or failed at some point of time. And not sure, I didn't catch that from data, need to read it again, but I think there is no time frame on how far in the past it was. It may be even Eons and Guardians may be even from other galaxy but that is big unknown anyway for now. That is my vision of Ruins.
Moreover there are three questions of different kind we have to ask ourselves:
a) How many things are carefully placed by Devs with hand made clues and how many are just random or "mass made"? How many elements are suppose to give us a clues compare to one that just need to be as background? Because we may look for patterns in place where only "wallpaper" is, if You know what I mean.
b) If most of things have meaning/sense/pattern, then what new layout could change in place functionality that old layout wasn't able to do? Where is a important difference that matters?
c) Was it even possible to acquire any kind of data (even in form of hard to decipher sound/codes etc.) before RT goal or was it not ready at all then? Because I've seen people trying and it would be very depressing though, knowing that there was no way to get anything then from ruins.
My few thoughts. Hope You have some pleasure reading it and thanks for a good work so far and keep this amazing thread even more fantastic.
PS
It used to be like ten post per day in week before and after new year but it suddenly explode so I'm barely able to keep with everything. Two mayor events in like less then for days between them. I must be a best PR move from Devs I think.
Edit: two minor word changes
I know most of it was mention many times, but I started active participation in thread just two days ago so I will quickly drop my thoughts I had in last weeks/months:
Ruins themselves:
They were never the city in my opinion. It is too small in the first place. Let's put a fact that the planet is airless on the side for the moment and let's assume it has atmosphere at one point in time. Sure, there is like big depression in the ground (in planet scale) "near by" that could be see or lake and some "plains" around, however it will make it nothing more like agricultural settlement at most - and we know from data, that society was more hunter so farms (probably necessary anyway) will be lower on a list of things to build in the middle of nowhere.
Now let's look from point of airless planet from a beginning - it is more fitting:
We know now that they used advance shield technology so they would be able probably keep atmosphere inside dome if they in need. However in my opinion it was never intended to have one. What is the biggest advance of airless environment?
1)At first, lack of corrosion - you can build anything from metal that would survive ages or millennia without destruction force of corrosion and with no need of maintaining it on daily/yearly basis.
2)Secondly - reducing impact of biological weapons (again, we know Guardians were using this kind of warfare thanks to data) either if it microbiological element or macro-biological one. Sure, some microbiology forms can survive in vacuum but usually it is hibernated stance when they are not multiplying massively only surviving and the macro-biology one, can build they own spaceships (flower power for example? [wink] ) and only then they are able to harm installation. But for that reason and one other important - we have another protection that we know about now - thanks to data collected.
What is the, other than lack of air and massive radiation, drawback of lack of atmosphere? It is lack of protection against meteorites that atmosphere itself provides. To the certain size point naturally. On surface most of airless planets we meet in ED we can clearly see, effects of millennia of meteorites bombardment. But now, thanks to data, we know that there was a way that Guardians could secure installation against meteorites and presumable "ant-farm octagonal rebels" raid. [wink]
It was the advance shield technology that they had.
All build into a wall structures looks like elements that can support shield dome. Same for elements on top of the rounded peaks (A and F). Was it a dome that was wider then "wall" structure (maybe even a few miles wider) or was a "wall" the shield border (which is interesting, because it leaves G structures on kind of landing/resupply pad with two "stations" and one beacon outside of shields) - there is no way to tell. To be honest it is all speculation anyway, because we are just gathering knowledge from scratch.
Back to the point. If its not a city, then in my opinion, from the very beginning, it was planed and build as simple, well protected, data storage bank. Build in specific purpose so even a layout could have a "data storage" meaning. Not to mention structures that are kind of data banks.
What is important in that case, for me, is a fact it has to have some kind of instruction/manual for all elements that is on structure itself. Like simple colour/signs/shape on every PC. This works with that and etc.
Now, we are failing at the moment to find one obvious but even a fact that certain structures group works only with certain relics as a main one, support thesis that there should be a pattern of some kind.
I can think of situation, when ships or probes were landing on G structures to download new data or take one from banks, or downloading through beacon. Maybe even some structures are long range (perhaps intergalactic) antennas. If that was a case it was obviously destroyed or failed at some point of time. And not sure, I didn't catch that from data, need to read it again, but I think there is no time frame on how far in the past it was. It may be even Eons and Guardians may be even from other galaxy but that is big unknown anyway for now. That is my vision of Ruins.
Moreover there are three questions of different kind we have to ask ourselves:
a) How many things are carefully placed by Devs with hand made clues and how many are just random or "mass made"? How many elements are suppose to give us a clues compare to one that just need to be as background? Because we may look for patterns in place where only "wallpaper" is, if You know what I mean.
b) If most of things have meaning/sense/pattern, then what new layout could change in place functionality that old layout wasn't able to do? Where is a important difference that matters?
c) Was it even possible to acquire any kind of data (even in form of hard to decipher sound/codes etc.) before RT goal or was it not ready at all then? Because I've seen people trying and it would be very depressing though, knowing that there was no way to get anything then from ruins.
My few thoughts. Hope You have some pleasure reading it and thanks for a good work so far and keep this amazing thread even more fantastic.
PS
It used to be like ten post per day in week before and after new year but it suddenly explode so I'm barely able to keep with everything. Two mayor events in like less then for days between them. I must be a best PR move from Devs I think.
Edit: two minor word changes
Last edited:
Other than go to multiplayer and hope, no- trying to work out the logic of getting past the 13 is the current sticking point. Other obelisks are activating without any so-far deciphered logic in multiplayer.
Btw, was just in Mobius- either someone is extremely careless with their guns or there's still someone shooting at players in there; I had a near miss with beam lasers.
The moon always sets there. If you don't move it will rise over the small pad, in a few hours.
I think the data scan will tell us which Obelisk we have to scan next...
I find it very hard to believe that Frontier designed a puzzle that can only be solved in Multiplayer... and with relogging..
People are getting random activated obelisks in Open because of luck...
I think you can solve this puzzle in one go in Solo play, we just have to find the correct order of scanning[wacky]
It's not just the order but where you start and what items you have, if each (active) obelisk has data then each scan starting from the very first has to be correct.
Last edited:
First pass over moon 1 B A gives every indication that there's nothing here. The terrain is much rougher, no convenient flat spots like you've got at the first ruins site. No funny geometric shapes. I'll keep looking though.
In my frustration at being trolled/grieved in open and loosing millions in ship re-buys and repairs I've happily joined MOBIUS PvE, I will not be going back into open play in open space again, long live the world of PvE
Welcome to Mobius, it just makes playing Elite so much more fun IMHO.
Many details were removed from the ruins in 2.2. My hunch is that Frontier did this to make the ruins "simpler", hoping that people (like me ) wouldn't look too deep for hidden meanings to the ruins (a one to one scale stellar map for example) and instead just see them as a mission goal device, a puzzle to solve by using artifacts and obelisks.
It sure wasn't an accident, all of the changes were done on purpose by Frontier, so the lesser detailing is intentional. Basically, I believe that pre 2.2 ruins were unfinished and preliminary and didn't mean anything on their own and a lot of the neat little details were probably just window dressing, while the simpler and more plain post 2.2 ruins are now complete and have the mission which is necessary to make sense of them. That's my gut feeling anyway.
Nice idea, but there have been videos posted from one PG showing how each CMDR sees different obelisks lit, so I doubt it would work
Found it - around 4:00 the video shows no active obelisk, other player says they are looking at it:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/300054-Alien-archeology-and-other-mysteries-Thread-9-The-Canonn?p=5005792&viewfull=1#post5005792
Last edited:
I am now at -32/-125 in orbit and am receiving data scans from the surface. got video. wth
Excellent! Our wing had been in a PG because we figured other Commanders would exhaust the monuments (assumed FD would derp with MP), but yeah, new ones were active to scan in Open for Group G, and now I have HIST16
Thank you for the tip o7
EDIT: And now we also have HIST13 after scanning yet more new active Group G monuments in Open with CASKET+TOTEM combination, no real order seemed to matter, just scanning all the new ones
Last edited:
Well, there's a VERY strong correlation between the ancient items and the resultant data. It's very rare, for example, that you unlock technological data and don't have an orb in your hold.
Then (as some have posted ) there previously was a correlation between the data patterns (alpha, beta, gamma, delta, omega) and the ancient data types. Some of the ancient data even mentions its data-pattern type in the text.
These two together suggest there's a correlation between each ancient item and a data-pattern too:
Orb = Technological Data = Epsilon data pattern
Casket = Historical Data = Gamma data pattern
Tablet = Language Data = Delta data pattern
Urn = Biological Data = Alpha data pattern
Totem = Cultural Data = Beta data pattern
I do think the data-patterns are meant to give us a hint, such as (speculating) if you get alpha and delta patterns from a scan, then when the obelisk reactivates it can be unlocked with an urn and tablet, and either give you Biological or Language data. That particular theory can't be tested, in Solo at least, since the obelisks don't reactivate in any reasonable amount of time, despite what FD have said. So, either there's some mechanism for reactivating the obelisks, or it has to be done in Open where one player scans, makes note of the data-patterns, and the second player then scans the obelisk using the appropriate items. Still all guesswork though, at this stage.
- Status