Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 9 - The Canonn

[AdmlAdama]

Actually that's not what he said. He refused to confirm that it could be completed in Solo but did confirm that it was operating as designed.

This would suggest to me that it is highly likely that it *can't* be completed in solo without multiple commanders activating multiple obelisks, possibly whilst in a wing. (I wonder if it even requires a wing of four scanning simultaneously to get some of the data given the reward level.)

Maybe we're going about this the wrong way. Instead of trying to get more to light up. Let's find a way to get some to stop without scans.

For example one person mentioned that when people left some shut down until all that was left was the original 15.

So maybe have people stay... but start working on removing cargo, changing the distance from the surface for those in ships, dumping scan data patterns one by one for each ship and SRV one by one.

 

[wodthing]

Alright, I’ve wasted much of today with some thorough testing in solo mode. Following are the steps taken and their result. If anyone wants to include these in their spreadsheets or write-ups as what NOT to try, so other people don’t waste their time on this, feel free.

1. I’ve attempted to see if additional obelisks would turn on, when two standard obelisks are scanned in sequence. Now, I understand there are a gazillion combinations, considering the number of artifacts and obelisks, so I simply used the correct one of the primary artifacts (casket, urn, orb, tablet, totem) on the corresponding obelisk (i.e. casket for obelisk 1, tablet for 11, a.s.o.)
I’ve only tried this with obelisk number 5 (solo map, next to beacon on top of big circle) as the starting point…, scanned obelisk 5 with casket in hold (no error message), then switched to correlating artifact for obelisk 1 and scanned again (no error message). After that, I checked all obelisks if an additional one lit up. Once check was negative I reset instance and started over with obelisk 5 and then obelisk 2… after that 5 and 3, and so on. All results are negative, which means that
a. Either there’s no sequence to turn on additional obelisks
b. There is a sequence, but it has to be started at the correct obelisk
c. There’s a sequence, but it triggers after more than two matches

Conclusion: If FDev really implemented sequenced scanning without visual cues, then good luck ever getting the right combo.

2. I’ve also timed the pulsating glow of all 15 standard obelisks with any artifact, meaning I loaded one of each artifact into the cargo hold, targeted the obelisk in proximity of 10m or below, and timed the light pulse. The pulse never changed, it is constant at around 5 seconds on, then dims and pulses again. I’ve also checked it with the correct item combo per obelisk… no change.

Conclusion: Once again, no visual cues on the obelisks as to what combo is in proximity (at least not in solo)

3. I’ve removed all artifacts from the ground glow locations to see if anything would change throughout the ruins… no change.

Conclusion: The artifacts original locations do not seem to have an impact on the puzzle (at least not in solo)
Summary: The consensus seems to be right now, that the mission is not solvable in solo mode, which I find extremely disappointing, but what irks me more, is that FDev seems to confuse tedious chores with intriguing puzzles and gameplay.

 

[AdmlAdama]

I can confirm the following things:
-Mission is received automatically upon docking in Meene, Felice Dock
-The Primary key connection to the Obelisk groups is as shown in the current maps
-The Totem and the Relic! are valid/necessary secondary keys

While we (and the game) call them totem, orb, casket, tablet, relic in reality they're geometric shapes of spheres, prism, etc which makes me wonder if that's part of it. Is there some cue in their shape that ties in with their region, etc

 

[Ghostedmind]

While we (and the game) call them totem, orb, casket, tablet, relic in reality they're geometric shapes of spheres, prism, etc which makes me wonder if that's part of it. Is there some cue in their shape that ties in with their region, etc

I could see that, with the exception of A and F, they don't resemble the casket (afaik) yet they require the casket

 

[Iron Orchid]

From reading some of the data gathered so far perhaps the ruins are working as intended. The Guardians worked in packs so its quite logical that solo mode wouldn't work and the data could only be gathered in a group?

 

[GmG2Richardson]

I was out getting more fuel for my SRV when I got music and a strange sound on my radar. I came across this: http://imgur.com/a/vrFTG

After scanning I got the message that All Links Were Established. Has anything changed at the site?

-31.4772 -130.9078

 

[GmG2Richardson]

I was out mining for fuel for my SRV when I got music and a weird sound on my radar scan. I came across this: imgurDOTcom/a/vrFTG I scanned it and got "All Links Established" message. Did anything change at the site? The coordinates are -32.4772 -130.9078

 

[Oenta]

Did a little testing with a private group of 6 (many thanks to Tesla X for organizing the group and to Patey, Gilgamesh, Mr Citizen and Vaperton for participating). Here are my observations:

-- Those that logged into the server first noticed that subsequent logons triggered changes in which obelisks were switched on. Not realizing that was significant at the time, we did not attempt to quantify the phenomenon.

-- Once we had emptied our SRV cargo bays, we did a survey of the obelisks; only the ones available in solo play were toggled on.

-- We painstakingly scanned one obelisk at a time; the other obelisks did not toggle on or off in response.

-- Once all of the obelisks had been scanned, someone relogged. All of the default obelisks turned back on.

-- Everyone put two artifacts in their SRV cargo bays. We split ourselves up among the obelisk blocks. At several of the blocks, including A, C and E, there were 2-3 additional obelisks illuminated.

-- We converged on one block (C in this case) and an additional obelisk in that block switched on. We then had one commander move away from the block and that additional obelisk switched off.

Based on these observations, my theory about obelisk/artifact interaction is thus:

1) Dark obelisks are dark because they require power. The amount of power required to activate each obelisk is variable.

2) Artifacts radiate power to the obelisks when they are in your SRV's cargo hold. The amount of power transmitted is inversely related to your distance from an obelisk.

Nice work!

2 new ideas:

- Can this be replicated in Solo when moving items too a specific group? Like...for instance.. groups C requires 2 cascets, 2 orbs and 2 relics to activate new obelisks.

- About that thargoid interdicion... it looks like it scans us... for items... what if we take all the items from the ruins, and try if we can trigger an interdiction?

 

[HydnalX42]

I was out mining for fuel for my SRV when I got music and a weird sound on my radar scan. I came across this: imgurDOTcom/a/vrFTG I scanned it and got "All Links Established" message. Did anything change at the site? The coordinates are -32.4772 -130.9078

I just checked there in solo, didn't find anything.

 

[nazo]

I think that's a normal generic message. I've seen that on some random site where I found resources (sulfur and such) nearby I think somewhere in the general vicinity of Felicity Farseer's system (first moon I think.) Although I think the actual object looked very different, it could even be the same just in a very different orientation. I never did understand what it meant, but I presume it's just a generic thing.

So this is probably one of those randomly generated objects.

Also, it seems more like human tech. Ordinary metals. No organic feel and none of the colors and metals the Guardians seemed to have used.

 

[GmG2Richardson]

I think that's a normal generic message. I've seen that on some random site where I found resources (sulfur and such) nearby I think somewhere in the general vicinity of Felicity Farseer's system (first moon I think.) Although I think the actual object looked very different, it could even be the same just in a very different orientation. I never did understand what it meant, but I presume it's just a generic thing.

So this is probably one of those randomly generated objects.

Yeah, that is what I was thinking. Oh well.

 

[HydnalX42]

Nice work!

2 new ideas:

- Can this be replicated in Solo when moving items too a specific group? Like...for instance.. groups C requires 2 cascets, 2 orbs and 2 relics to activate new obelisks.

- About that thargoid interdicion... it looks like it scans us... for items... what if we take all the items from the ruins, and try if we can trigger an interdiction?

I've got a bunch of random items in my ship, I may go test that second idea.

 

[AdmlAdama]

This might point in the direction of doing a correct string. Go to obelisk x, ok scan, no reward yet, but activates another obelisk y(perhaps one outside the default 15), where you have to get the scan right on the first try, or the series resets again.
So a series of correct combinations at the correct obelisks.

Do we have a list of obelisk that return this 'empty' state 3? I'm to go and scan these, then drive around without scanning trying to find 'extra' obelisks.

I don't know but this feels like a very classic puzzle structure ...

I keep scanning all with the same cargo. Maybe we need to swap the cargo out after we scan one obelisk before we scan the next?

 

[Oenta]

Last night, something weird happened and I've not been able to duplicate what happened. While I was scanning with the Relic and Urn, I found 10 new obelisks that was active and scan-able. I thought that it might have happened because I had finally decoded 10 messages. But I've disproved that theory. So the only other theory I currently have is that a series of scans will unlock more obelisks. My normal routine is Section G, A, E, and F. I'm going to try and run that route again and see if I get the same result. But I was wondering if any one else has had more obelisks activate?

Thanks,
Cmdr Phyre Dragon

Did you play in Solo or Open?

 

[tulae]

So Culture 8/20 just popped up and from the spreadsheets I don't think anyone has pinpointed where it was from. I believe it was an Urn + Totem combo from Group E

I was with a few other CMDRs in a private group earlier testing out a couple of things (I'll probably post my observations in a little bit) and we obtained Culture 8/20 from Obelisk E19. The totem was absolutely required, but the second piece is unclear to me right now since we were merely narrowing down the possibilities with the method we carried out. It's very likely the combination was Totem+Urn though, as you suggest, since the "key" for that zone is supposedly the Urn (we kinda differ with that thought though).

On that note, we also got Cultural 7, 10, and 11 from Obelisks E18, E21, and E22 respectively. The Totem was essential for all of those. From what we observed, it seems all Cultural pieces are located in Zone E.

Edit Woops, meant to reply with quote.

 

[kastr]

Did you play in Solo or Open?

I was running in Private Group. At the time one of my friends popped in and started scanning on the opposite of where I was at. I've been trying to replicate what I was scanning. Unfortunately my friend doesn't remember what he had when he was scanning at the time. Somehow, you can unlock more inactive obelisk. The mystery question is what has to happen to make it work....my Asp for the answer to this question.

- - - Updated - - -

I was with a few other CMDRs in a private group earlier testing out a couple of things (I'll probably post my observations in a little bit) and we obtained Culture 8/20 from Obelisk E19. The totem was absolutely required, but the second piece is unclear to me right now since we were merely narrowing down the possibilities with the method we carried out. It's very likely the combination was Totem+Urn though, as you suggest, since the "key" for that zone is supposedly the Urn (we kinda differ with that thought though).

On that note, we also got Cultural 7, 10, and 11 from Obelisks E18, E21, and E22 respectively. The Totem was essential for all of those. From what we observed, it seems all Cultural pieces are located in Zone E.

Edit Woops, meant to reply with quote.

Hey Falcon,

Do you know what you did to unlock the extra obelisks? E18, E19, E21, and E22 are all inactive when I'm in the ruins.

 

[Gneuros]

I've got another wild one to throw out there.

Bearing in mind that we've been told the aliens were humanoid in shape (or at least http://remlok-industries.fr/1030/the-guardians-lore/?lang=en says so, but I can't see it in the data?), and that Culture 11 tells us "We already knew they were capable of fabulous architecture, but these records show that buildings, statues, monoliths and even city layouts were a common outlet for aesthetic expression."

http://i.imgur.com/McDbWvq.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/OcMLYcR.jpg

Does that look like a stick figure pointing/leaning to the left to anyone else?

You just blew my frickin mind, man.

 

[Moekul]

Pattern=Object?

While I've seen the pattern types (alpha, beta, ...) mentioned occasionally, and some attempt to match object (casket, urn, ...) and/or category (tech, hist, ...), I don't see any of the major data capture operations collecting it, yet I'm beginning to think it's crucial to understanding the problem. My hypothesis is that the decoding is based on two sets of 1-to-1 correspondence, a key object for each obelisk group (already deciphered due to invalid messages from Ram Tah) and an object for each pattern. Consider the following scenarios, some of which are more difficult to match up than others, and thus could hold more rare data:

1. Key object unlocks the group (e.g., Tablet in C), obelisk spits out one pattern, either the key object or a secondary matches the pattern (e.g. epsilon = tablet)
2. Key object unlocks the group, obelisk spits out two patterns, only one of the patterns is matched by either the key or secondary
3. (Hard) Key object unlocks the group, obelisk spits out two patterns, both objects match one of the patterns

While this seems to form a testable hypothesis, it leaves out the crucial part of how obelisk number within the group plays into it. Maybe each obelisk has a different set of patterns it can pull via RNG, or maybe there's only one or so successful pattern/object combos per obelisk.

The difficulty testing any hypothesis at the ruins, though, is cross-polination. Did I get that data/invalid message because I scanned, or was it someone else nearby? [knocked out] I've been trying to look at my own records, but haven't come up with a good way to visualize it. I do note that I haven't yet had any failures with the Gamma pattern and either an Orb or Relic in the hold (but plenty with other objects).

 

[tulae]

I was running in Private Group. At the time one of my friends popped in and started scanning on the opposite of where I was at. I've been trying to replicate what I was scanning. Unfortunately my friend doesn't remember what he had when he was scanning at the time. Somehow, you can unlock more inactive obelisk. The mystery question is what has to happen to make it work....my Asp for the answer to this question.

I got into a Private Group earlier with a few other CMDRs too. The most we had was four people at once, but we started getting into the PG in a controlled manner. At first only two CMDRs were in the ruins and they saw the standard set of obelisks lit. When I joined the group we surveyed the area and some different obelisks were now active. A few of them were from the original set, but others had switched. We then got a fourth CMDR to join and surveyed the area, and sure enough the Obelisks changed again.

Our initial conclusion at the time was that every time someone entered the instance, the obelisks would switch for everyone. I've been suspecting this for a while, but haven't been able to replicate it properly (Open play is too chaotic). Today's PG brought me a step closer. However, we can't say for sure it always works like this because stuff started behaving very strangely later on. One of us got disconnected from the group due to an adjudication error, and when he got back we started seeing different things in the same instance! The CMDRs that remained in the game would see a set of lit obelisks, while the CMDR that rejoined after the server error would see a different set, and we could not see each other's lit obelisks. In other words, he might've seen A1 lit and I saw A4.

 

[Rootgod]

I've reported the "mission critical " text message bug to fdev but doubt we will get a fix soon;

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...tting-delayed-delivery?highlight=Ancient+ruin

I know it's a small problem but I think it's adding so many false reports to the scanning investigation and crib sheets!