Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 9 - The Canonn

[Olivia Vespera]

Interestingly I've noticed evidence of a genetic break along the north-south divide and of redder skins among the northern clans, suggesting a racial element to the division.

Historical: 9/21
This makes me wonder why a species would through natural selection develop red skin. What colour or class must the star be to generate a species that would develop red skin?

I'd hazard that their home system has an M, L, T or Y class star.

Perhaps it is coincidence, but if it does have a Y class star, it may explain why the planet that the ruins is on is also orbiting a Y class star.

Perhaps interestingly about this is this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitability_of_red_dwarf_systems

Having to adapt to a far wider spectrum to gain the maximum amount of energy, foliage on a habitable red dwarf planet would probably appear black if viewed in visible light.

This could mean that those in the north, the red skinned guardians are a red star's version of Caucasians.

 

[Rootgod]

It's worse than that. Due to the text message bug you can't be sure if the message refers to your last scan or the one before that unless you relog!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...tting-delayed-delivery?highlight=Ancient+ruin

 

[JJ12880]

2 new ideas:

- Can this be replicated in Solo when moving items too a specific group? Like...for instance.. groups C requires 2 cascets, 2 orbs and 2 relics to activate new obelisks.

- About that thargoid interdicion... it looks like it scans us... for items... what if we take all the items from the ruins, and try if we can trigger an interdiction?

Just tested idea one, in solo mode.

Observations

1) Dumped 16 ancient items from ship (full ship cargo, at least 2 of each, 3 of some) in a close group in cluster E. Observed from the ship, and no nothing lit up.
2) Launched SRV (nothing in hold for entire test), and normal solo mode obelisks lit up, with nothing in SRV hold.
3) Obelisks turn off, when SRV drove away (confirmed with debug camera), even with a giant pile of ancient items piled up around it.
4) All ancient items other than the Artifact also stopped glowing when SRV departed Area. Artifact continued to glow, regardless of distance. The distance ancient items stopped glowing was approximately the same as that of the obelisks.
5) The ancient items I had dumped on the ground, all disappeared after about 10 minutes. There was no change in obelisk behavior, the same ones lit when approached as before with all ancient items gone.

Theories.

1) Ancient items do not have their own power source, but absorb power from nearby SRV
2) Ancient items shut down to save power, when nobody is near.
3) Artifact seems to have its own power source, as it is always lit up.
3a) Artifact may be a signaling device, as it is found at the top of a tower, like an antenna
3b) 3A may be a load of crap, because the towers rise from the ground when approached, and are not by default in the extended position
3c) this is just a graphical design quirk, and has nothing to do with the game.

JJ12880

 

[Auntystatic]

why is there a big dark square over a large part of the lit planet over where the ruins are

is it a navigational aid for the inept/lazy

a graphics glitch

or a new development ?

Its a glitch you need to relog

 

[tulae]

While I've seen the pattern types (alpha, beta, ...) mentioned occasionally, and some attempt to match object (casket, urn, ...) and/or category (tech, hist, ...), I don't see any of the major data capture operations collecting it, yet I'm beginning to think it's crucial to understanding the problem. My hypothesis is that the decoding is based on two sets of 1-to-1 correspondence, a key object for each obelisk group (already deciphered due to invalid messages from Ram Tah) and an object for each pattern. Consider the following scenarios, some of which are more difficult to match up than others, and thus could hold more rare data:

1. Key object unlocks the group (e.g., Tablet in C), obelisk spits out one pattern, either the key object or a secondary matches the pattern (e.g. epsilon = tablet)
2. Key object unlocks the group, obelisk spits out two patterns, only one of the patterns is matched by either the key or secondary
3. (Hard) Key object unlocks the group, obelisk spits out two patterns, both objects match one of the patterns

While this seems to form a testable hypothesis, it leaves out the crucial part of how obelisk number within the group plays into it. Maybe each obelisk has a different set of patterns it can pull via RNG, or maybe there's only one or so successful pattern/object combos per obelisk.

The difficulty testing any hypothesis at the ruins, though, is cross-polination. Did I get that data/invalid message because I scanned, or was it someone else nearby? [knocked out] I've been trying to look at my own records, but haven't come up with a good way to visualize it. I do note that I haven't yet had any failures with the Gamma pattern and either an Orb or Relic in the hold (but plenty with other objects).

I like your theory. I haven't been able to keep track of the wave patterns because my data storage is full and I just stopped receiving them, but your idea is in a way consistent to something I've noticed from scanning non-standard obelisks in the different Zones or Groups. While in a private group another three CMDRs and I exploited the "data-bleed" phenomenon to pinpoint from which obelisk we got particular data pieces. We had one CMDR in the ground scanning obelisks in each group always with one of the pieces being the "key" to the group (Tablet for Zone C, etc) and another randomly chosen piece by him, while the rest of us sat in our ships will all pieces in the cargo hold. If the SRV got a success message, then we would know the exact combination; if he didn't and someone in their ship did, then we would know that the SRVs second piece did not unlock.

Anyway, the interesting bit is that when scanning some of the Zones with non-standard obelisks, some of the CMDRs in their ships received data pieces that I had gotten from the standard set in Solo. This leads me to believe that a specific data piece is not necessarily tied to a specific obelisk, but instead only constrained to the Zone itself. The same two ancient objects might work in different obelisks of the same Zone to unlock a specific data piece. In our specific case, for example, one of the CMDRs in my group got the Historic 12 piece when we scanned Obelisk G13, but I had gotten that piece in Solo while scanning obelisk G20. It is very possible that both of these obelisks would give out the same wave pattern data if we were to scan them for it.

We still need to do some more testing before drawing any more conclusions. During our experiments we had a few disconnects that kinda shook us, but we were still able to pinpoint with some accuracy a few pieces of data.

 

[Rootgod]

The difficulty testing any hypothesis at the ruins, though, is cross-polination. Did I get that data/invalid message because I scanned, or was it someone else nearby? [knocked out] I've been trying to look at my own records, but haven't come up with a good way to visualize it. I do note that I haven't yet had any failures with the Gamma pattern and either an Orb or Relic in the hold (but plenty with other objects).

It's worse than that. Due to the text message bug you can't be sure if the message refers to your last scan or the one before that unless you relog!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...tting-delayed-delivery?highlight=Ancient+ruin

 

[stuarta]

Good Morning Cmdrs

Having become frustrated with the ongoing farce of disconnections / random returns / griefing and "tough luck if you play solo" at the ruins site, I have been trying to make a bit more sense of several clues that appear to possibly be connected to see if I can make any progress on decoding the site / glyphs - namely -

1. Apparent stylistic similarities between the UP spectrograph image and the layout of the ancient site.

2. The phrase " the lock is the key" (or something similar) that was utterred some time ago.

3. Multiple theories linking the UP to the Guardians.

4. Language 13 tells us that – "The written form of the Guardians’ language is based on glyphs, each glyph representing a word. Glyphs seem to be able to be associated to describe complex concepts, while the integration of movements can also be used to add additional meaning. All glyphs are symbols and are more abstract than hieroglyphics, but it is possible to identify a simple reference based on their shape. For example, the glyph used to designate the moon shows the rising and falling moon as it appeared on the Guardian world."


This morning, I had a brainwave that the embedded binary numerals in the UP image might indicate a way to read the glyphs by following the numerical order - however, on checking, the numerals were not as I remembered them and did not symbolise 1- 4 as an order to follow.

I was about to give up on this when I statred thinking about locks and keys and the image of rotating a key in the lock occurred to me so I tried rotating the UP image by 180 degrees (much as one might do with a key in a lock) which gives this :-

Suddenly, this clicked. Could it be that looking at any individual glyph as 4 linked images might indicate different states of the same object / tell a story if read in sequence? Might the two "landing pads" be glyphs that, if read in order 1 - 4 according to the "key" indicate either the method to unlock more obelisks / reset them / find the next site? If so, might the long ridge extending "south" out of the large pad be indicating which way is up?

Using this theory, a quick look at the UP image might give something like - arrived at a planet - with an atmosphere - signal received - signal transmitted.

There's something to chew on for a Sunday morning!

 

[stuarta]

On a completely different note, given that the relics "seem to be a power source" and that multiple commanders arriving near a group of obelisks "powers up" new obelisks - what about the possibility that placing relics at each of the "empty" spots on the ground markings might similarly power up said obelisks? for example, at group B - the placement of 3 relics in the following positions - just something else to try.....

 

[Oenta]

Just tested idea one, in solo mode.

Observations

1) Dumped 16 ancient items from ship (full ship cargo, at least 2 of each, 3 of some) in a close group in cluster E. Observed from the ship, and no nothing lit up.
2) Launched SRV (nothing in hold for entire test), and normal solo mode obelisks lit up, with nothing in SRV hold.
3) Obelisks turn off, when SRV drove away (confirmed with debug camera), even with a giant pile of ancient items piled up around it.
4) All ancient items other than the Artifact also stopped glowing when SRV departed Area. Artifact continued to glow, regardless of distance. The distance ancient items stopped glowing was approximately the same as that of the obelisks.
5) The ancient items I had dumped on the ground, all disappeared after about 10 minutes. There was no change in obelisk behavior, the same ones lit when approached as before with all ancient items gone.

Theories.

1) Ancient items do not have their own power source, but absorb power from nearby SRV
2) Ancient items shut down to save power, when nobody is near.
3) Artifact seems to have its own power source, as it is always lit up.
3a) Artifact may be a signaling device, as it is found at the top of a tower, like an antenna
3b) 3A may be a load of crap, because the towers rise from the ground when approached, and are not by default in the extended position
3c) this is just a graphical design quirk, and has nothing to do with the game.

JJ12880

Thanks for testing! So... what you can try next, is to fly close/park to an group of obelisks... and see if they light up with a full hold of items. And than deploy SRV... with some items... and see if things start happening.

If there's nothing happening, i think FD designed a puzzle that can only be solved in Open... which is really disappointing..... because I am playing on Xbox and I have to find an PG that want to solve the puzzle... actively... with communication and strategy... to find the secrets of this puzzle. Those groups are hard to find...

 

[Surl Tesh-echer]

On a completely different note, given that the relics "seem to be a power source" and that multiple commanders arriving near a group of obelisks "powers up" new obelisks - what about the possibility that placing relics at each of the "empty" spots on the ground markings might similarly power up said obelisks? for example, at group B - the placement of 3 relics in the following positions - just something else to try.....

http://i.imgur.com/p4OiEer.jpg?1

I was thinking about something similar. Maybe relic can change active obelisks when you are near this or other structures? But probably it was already checked. Get only relic in srv, drive around B with it or place relic on the ground.

 

[HydnalX42]

I noticed that the relic tower in group A has only two little pillars floating around the relic, whereas there are three around the other three towers. Any idea if that's significant at all?

 

[Martin Afonso]

- - - Updated - - -

Ok seems i might be the first to locate the sneaky Alliances 2nd base which we built at the end of december, they added it in the last patch but never mensioned it from what i have searched.

While doing my rounds studying the barnacles of the Pleiades i ventured out to the California Nebula to have a check on their states. I had in mind that i would take a look around for the new alliance base , that is if it had been added yet.
I thought maybe they were going to wait till 2.3 which would be way off, no reason not to add it with the new patch the other day, but no mension in the patch notes or any galnet news or news from the end of the CG either.

3 systems with barnacles are known. So i continued at a slow pace logging each in the systems while also searching for new finds.
In California sector LC-V C2-10 there were known barnacles on A2,A3,A4 and B1. scanned those but for a long time since first coming here suspected there should be one on A5 too. Confirmed that rather quickly with a first find on that planet.
http://i.imgur.com/mPJpH2Ul.jpg
California Sector LC-V C2-10 A 5 -19.91 / -7.52

Moved onto the next system, completed scans and finished up at California sector BA-A E6 4 - few barnacles there, confirmed that old nav targets had remained from long ago, useful info for another area of research i'm investigating.

Nothing located and was ready to head home. Before leaving decided to drop into Mic turner base to check news/missions etc.
No missions - cannot contact server issues,, happens on most of these distant bases.
but looking in the news section, not much info but this caught my eye.
http://i.imgur.com/f3lDdOd.jpg

Didnt seem to make sense,, expansion from a system to here failed , by the same faction? HIP 18077 - I checked galmap and then the system map having visited it before,nothing visible.
No population in galmap view either but there isnt also at mic turners base either in BA-A E6. Maybe FD forgot to add that info or maybe its just alliance being sneaky

Looking at where its located,, further outside the nebula, but still close enough. Easily missed by many heading to the middle of the nebula. Once entered the system, obvious , Turner research group rather than anarchy, many npc ships in supercruise and USS
Base showed up on system map once i had visited the system again.
http://i.imgur.com/Dsl4Jh8.jpg

I scanned the planets while heading to the Mahon Research Bases on HIP 18077 6 C - Some massive ringed inner planets , various volcanism about too. more moons to investigate to around 10 and 11.

Landed soon at Mahon Research base, curious to see if the placement would have any fungas site like at Mic turners base. Quickly located a nearby small POI for the fungal site, you soon notice it nearby but only at lower altitudes.

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/5ZLaFcql.jpg

HIP 18077 6C -38.02 / -85.64 Right near the base, so head base first, and you soon can locate it nearby.
Spoiler wrap,, lot of images.

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/XBmUZcd.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AfHBbPW.png
http://i.imgur.com/djfcdat.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DeTxYR9.jpg

Thank you.

 

[stuarta]

HydnalX42 That has been noted several time - answer unknown.

just tried my theory at group e with a relic placed on the spot - no change. activate all 4 towers - no change. was going to scan all 4 towers when DC'd again!

 

[JJ12880]

Thanks for testing! So... what you can try next, is to fly close/park to an group of obelisks... and see if they light up with a full hold of items. And than deploy SRV... with some items... and see if things start happening.

I used debug cam when I was "aiming" to dump the 16 relics from my hold, and just hovering over with my ship did not cause anything to light up. I was nearly sitting on top of the obelisks with a hold full of ancient items (ie, was bumping them with my shields) and nothing was happening. My observations indicate that ship-carried ancient items do not seem to cause any activation.

JJ12880

 

[nazo]

Having become frustrated with the ongoing farce of disconnections / random returns / griefing and "tough luck if you play solo" at the ruins site, I have been trying to make a bit more sense of several clues that appear to possibly be connected to see if I can make any progress on decoding the site / glyphs - namely -

Never so long as I shall live will I ever understand this general attitude of complete and utter, well, contempt for everyone else...

2. The phrase " the lock is the key" (or something similar) that was utterred some time ago.

Wait, what? Who said this? Is this some sort of official statement? You do realize that a lot of us just can't help but to feel that the top part of the site looks rather a lot like a key with the line going down followed by a part sticking out to the left (and not one, but two ancient artifacts on the top of it)? I keep thinking that for all we know there is a full blown facility here (though if so I guess it's a separate instance where you get "teleported" into it, hence the cameras going through the land not showing it) that could somehow be entered or something. The fact that it hasn't been dug out or something just feels very significant because these things sticking out of the ground hardly seem like they'd just be placed randomly on the ground just for the sheer heck of it, but must be part of something larger.

So could the "lock" be in some part of this thing? (The obvious assumption there being the round part on the top which is bigger and has a lot more going on within it than the bottom round part.)


BTW, I noticed if you get up close to the beacons they have symbols on them. A central large triangle and then smaller triangles around it in different positions. I don't know if it could be just "decoration" in that the devs didn't necessarily mean for us to be able to understand it anyway or if some clues around the place might give us some idea what this might mean.


PS. When people turn in the mission after scanning some obelisks, do you get the full 100 for completion plus the bonus or do you only get the bonus?

 

[Clanga]

Wait, what? Who said this? Is this some sort of official statement? You do realize that a lot of us just can't help but to feel that the top part of the site looks rather a lot like a key with the line going down followed by a part sticking out to the left (and not one, but two ancient artifacts on the top of it)? I keep thinking that for all we know there is a full blown facility here (though if so I guess it's a separate instance where you get "teleported" into it, hence the cameras going through the land not showing it) that could somehow be entered or something. The fact that it hasn't been dug out or something just feels very significant because these things sticking out of the ground hardly seem like they'd just be placed randomly on the ground just for the sheer heck of it, but must be part of something larger.

So could the "lock" be in some part of this thing? (The obvious assumption there being the round part on the top which is bigger and has a lot more going on within it than the bottom round part.)

Don't apply human concepts or objects to aliens. The guardians' version of a lock and key is probably completely different from ours.

 

[Zebarmy]

On a completely different note, given that the relics "seem to be a power source" and that multiple commanders arriving near a group of obelisks "powers up" new obelisks - what about the possibility that placing relics at each of the "empty" spots on the ground markings might similarly power up said obelisks? for example, at group B - the placement of 3 relics in the following positions - just something else to try.....

http://i.imgur.com/p4OiEer.jpg?1

I've tried this in PG and Solo with Relics and different Artifacts - no change

 

[Cmdr-Wotherspoon]

When people turn in the mission after scanning some obelisks, do you get the full 100 for completion plus the bonus or do you only get the bonus?

You get paid for the work you have done. 1M credits for every item of information about The Guardians you manage to download. The 100M is for those who collect all the pieces of the puzzle.

Incidentally, you can "cash in" on your mission at the mission board, then next time you land at a station in Meene you get offered the mission again. This may however disqualify you for the 100M bonus (we don't know).

 

[TiberiuS]

Don't apply human concepts or objects to aliens. The guardians' version of a lock and key is probably completely different from ours.

True, but the game is made by humans after all.

Is there a spreadsheet of all the messages (the texts) we have so far? maybe I can contribute 1 or 2.

 

[Surl Tesh-echer]

True, but the game is made by humans after all.

Come on. They are British. They drive on the left and gone Brexit. Humans don't do this.