Understanding ship mass

[Lutz]

'lo,

I'm getting to the point in the game whereby I'm starting to appreciate the finer points of the ships, and how they function. I'm in an Asp-Ex, which I'm sure 99% of you know has a class 6 and a class 5 module space, but no class 4's. This is leaving me with the thoughts of "which one should I use for shields, and which one for the main cargo bay?"

So, I understand that shields are affected greatly by your mass. (But AFAIK, not the optional modules, nor the cargo)
The hull mass of an Asp-Ex is 280t. So I thought, I wonder what my mass is? I was flying at the time, I couldn't find the information (?) So I thought I'd land at an outfitters, and see what was what. Which has lead to some confusion.

The "integrity" of my ship is 378.0 (I assume this is "hit points")

My Total Mass states: 481.3 / 482.9 / 1,155.0 t.
Now, I assume that 481.3 is my mass with no cargo, and 1,155.0t is my mass when I'm fully loaded. But what is the 482.9 ?

On that note, I've just realised, I don't know another stat on there; jump distance.
My current jump says: min/current/max 16.93 / 16.99 / 18.14

At first I thought that these numbers are my maximum jump distances based on the mass above. But if my ship was "light" at 481.3 then the distance would be larger, not smaller.

I've been searching on here, wiki and reddit and I'm getting more confused than anything now.

(Aside: I'm tossing up 5D vs 6D shields. From what I gather, 5D work best on a mass of 405t (I'm 481.3?) and 6D work better on mass of 540t so 6D is better for me. And 6C and above would give me more power, and not be (badly) modified by the mass, which a class 5 would be. Yeah?)

 

[777Driver]

'lo,

I'm getting to the point in the game whereby I'm starting to appreciate the finer points of the ships, and how they function. I'm in an Asp-Ex, which I'm sure 99% of you know has a class 6 and a class 5 module space, but no class 4's. This is leaving me with the thoughts of "which one should I use for shields, and which one for the main cargo bay?"

So, I understand that shields are affected greatly by your mass. (But AFAIK, not the optional modules, nor the cargo)
The hull mass of an Asp-Ex is 280t. So I thought, I wonder what my mass is? I was flying at the time, I couldn't find the information (?) So I thought I'd land at an outfitters, and see what was what. Which has lead to some confusion.

The "integrity" of my ship is 378.0 (I assume this is "hit points")

My Total Mass states: 481.3 / 482.9 / 1,155.0 t.
Now, I assume that 481.3 is my mass with no cargo, and 1,155.0t is my mass when I'm fully loaded. But what is the 482.9 ?

On that note, I've just realised, I don't know another stat on there; jump distance.
My current jump says: min/current/max 16.93 / 16.99 / 18.14

At first I thought that these numbers are my maximum jump distances based on the mass above. But if my ship was "light" at 481.3 then the distance would be larger, not smaller.

I've been searching on here, wiki and reddit and I'm getting more confused than anything now.

(Aside: I'm tossing up 5D vs 6D shields. From what I gather, 5D work best on a mass of 405t (I'm 481.3?) and 6D work better on mass of 540t so 6D is better for me. And 6C and above would give me more power, and not be (badly) modified by the mass, which a class 5 would be. Yeah?)

My Total Mass states: 481.3 / 482.9 / 1,155.0 t.

Current Mass - 481.3T
Total gross weight fully fueled/cargo - 482.9T
Maximum mass thrusters can launch with (dependent on thruster rating/class) 1,1550 T

My current jump says: min/current/max 16.93 / 16.99 / 18.14

Min = Fully laden fully fuelled
Current = Actual gross weight with current fuel & Cargo.
Max = Max plotted jump range (Fully fueled) Onboard jump range indicator displays max jump range with an optimal fuel load (Right functions panel)

Don't normally like answering these questions without access to the game, above answers are from memory. 99% sure it is correct.


Shields work on the ships base mass, modules fuel load cargo etc has zero effect.

 

[TERMINATRIXXX]

My Total Mass states: 481.3 / 482.9 / 1,155.0 t.

Current Mass - 481.3T
Total gross weight fully fueled/cargo - 482.9T
Maximum mass thrusters can launch with (dependent on thruster rating/class) 1,1550 T

My current jump says: min/current/max 16.93 / 16.99 / 18.14

Min = Fully laden fully fuelled
Current = Actual gross weight with current fuel & Cargo.
Max = Max plotted jump range (Fully fueled) Onboard jump range indicator displays max jump range with an optimal fuel load (Right functions panel)

Don't normally like answering these questions without access to the game, above answers are from memory. 99% sure it is correct.

Additional weight added by outfitting/cargo doesn't change the hull mass, except bulkheads?
I think it's a bit misleading, hull mass should be hull size?
Had a Class 5 prismatic equipped on my ASPX btw. to use the 6 for cargo rack, never had issues in combat situations.
Now we got the Armour stats, i guess these are the hitpoints.

 

[Winterwalker]

For deciding which shield to use, use Hull Mass.
Hull Mass doesn't change no matter what cargo/modules you have, and desciribes 'how big is an Asp-Ex ship'

There's a Max, Min and Optimal Hull Mass in the shield specs. If your Hull Mass is below the Optimum provided (by shield module fitted) the shields will be stronger than average. And the other way around .. if your Hull Mass is greater than the Shield's Optimum (deliverable) .. the shield is weaker.

Yes, actual mass changes with cargo / modules and such. However none of these change the shape of the hull or make the ship any 'bigger' or 'smaller' .. so they don't affect shield coverage.

Actual Mass does affect, thrust to weight ratio of course. So as you drop cargo your thrusters become more effective and vice versa, thrusters are less effective if you add weight. Same deal with FSD, and jump range.

Shields are different from thrusters though and protect 'the area' of your hull. A ship with a bigger hull mass = a bigger area, for shields to cover.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Well, well...rep all around for as long as it lasts.
Was just thinking about this the other day so this thread is most fortuitous.
And bookmarked till I have it memorized.

 

[goemon]

@777driver your memory serves you well!
__
@OP
concerning your shield question. a shieldgenerator has a "optimal mass" and a "maximum mass" - the mass it is referring to is ONLY hullmass, so fixed per shiptype.

you can't fit a shieldgenerator when you ships hullmass exceeds the maximum mass. exampel: AspE has a hullmass of 280T, a class 2A shieldgenerator has a maximum mass of 138t = you can't fit it.

hullmass above shieldgenerators optimal mass weakens your shields strength. hullmass below shieldgenerator optmal mass strenghtens your shields, but with a diminuishing return.

exampel: AspE. hullmass 280T.

3A shieldgenerator: optimal mass 165T. shield: 113 MJ.

4a shieldgenerator: optimal mass 285T (= AspE hullmass)= 170 MJ - increase: 50%.

5A shieldgenerator: optimal mass: 405 T = 208 MJ - increase 22%.

6A shield generator: optimal mass 540 T= 235 MJ - increase= 13%.

as you can see, you gain a lot by fitting a shieldgenerator with optimal mass close to hullmass, and you gain less and less by fitting "oversized" shieldgenerators.

in case of the AspE it is one of its flaws, that it does not have a class 4 slot - so you'd be better off with a class 5 shield, because you anyway need the class 5 slot for it. i recommend a 5D shield, because you'll enjoy the better manouverability through less weight. fitting a class 6 shield generator doesn't make sense on an AspE.

 

[Lutz]

OK, thank you for your help everyone. I'd quote individual parts, but that would be a *messy* post. So, to sum up with figures from the game

MASS

Fully fueled, completely empty of cargo, in outfitting I have:
445.9 / 485.9 / 1,155 (tonnes)
16.83 / 18.34 / 18.34 (ly)

Fully fueled, completely full of cargo (40t), in outfitting I have:
485.9 / 485.9 / 1,155 (tonnes)
16.83 / 16.83 / 18.34 (ly)

Assuming always fully fueled, I can make a max jump of 18.34 ly, and fully loaded I can make a max jump of 16.83, and the maximum mass my thrusters (5b) can shift, is 1,155t. RIGHT.

BUT! Thrusters are affected by mass... but shedding my cargo would only reduce my mass by about 40t... Less than 10%, so... not much?

SHIELDS

My Asp-Ex has a hull mass of 280.

A 4A optimum mass is 285t, but with a 280t ship, gives a strength 170Mj plus a 50% modifier (Total of 255mj)
A 5A optimum mass is 405t, but with a 280t ship, gives a strength 208Mj plus a 22% modifier (Total of 253.76mj)
A 6A optimum mass is 540t, but with a 280t ship, gives a strength 235Mj plus a 13% modifier (Total of 265.55mj)

All of those totals are very very close to each other (less than 4% difference) which doesn't seem right.... the class is more important than the size? It's clear though that the 5D would be much better than the 6D I currently have.

 

[Lutz]

Probably worth pointing out that I want shields that can stand up to a fight. I'm doing missions of all types, and fighting will occur. I got my backside handed to me about half an hour ago by a Vulture and barely escaped with my life, so trying to tweak everything. Currently have:

Powerplant: 5b
Distributor: 4a
FSD: 5c
Thrusters: 5b
Sensors: 5d
Life Support 4d
Fuel Scoop: 3a
ADS
DDS

Shields: 6d (will almost certainly swap back to 5d cos cargo)
Killwarrant Scanner
FSD Interdictor: 3d
Wake Scanner
40t cargo bay (Soon to be at least 64t)

 

[777Driver]

Probably worth pointing out that I want shields that can stand up to a fight. I'm doing missions of all types, and fighting will occur. I got my backside handed to me about half an hour ago by a Vulture and barely escaped with my life, so trying to tweak everything. Currently have:

Powerplant: 5b
Distributor: 4a
FSD: 5c
Thrusters: 5b
Sensors: 5d
Life Support 4d
Fuel Scoop: 3a
ADS
DDS

Shields: 6d (will almost certainly swap back to 5d cos cargo)
Killwarrant Scanner
FSD Interdictor: 3d
Wake Scanner
40t cargo bay (Soon to be at least 64t)

Don't use 5D shields unless you plan to live outside the bubble, you'll be dead in seconds. Even 6D is bad without boosters, fit A class shields or engineer D's. Thruster performance is based on the optimal mass, not an issue with the thrusters you have installed. You could save weight and install 6D thrusters.

 

[goemon]

A 4A optimum mass is 285t, but with a 280t ship, gives a strength 170Mj plus a 50% modifier (Total of 255mj)
A 5A optimum mass is 405t, but with a 280t ship, gives a strength 208Mj plus a 22% modifier (Total of 253.76mj)
A 6A optimum mass is 540t, but with a 280t ship, gives a strength 235Mj plus a 13% modifier (Total of 265.55mj)

my numbers already have been the total - increase in percentage to class below- class= size, grade= quality (A,B,C,D,E)

 

[goemon]

A 4A optimum mass is 285t, but with a 280t ship, gives a strength 170Mj plus a 50% modifier (Total of 255mj)
A 5A optimum mass is 405t, but with a 280t ship, gives a strength 208Mj plus a 22% modifier (Total of 253.76mj)
A 6A optimum mass is 540t, but with a 280t ship, gives a strength 235Mj plus a 13% modifier (Total of 265.55mj)

my numbers already have been the total - increase in percentage to class below- class= size, grade= quality (A,B,C,D,E)

 

[goemon]

Probably worth pointing out that I want shields that can stand up to a fight. I'm doing missions of all types, and fighting will occur. I got my backside handed to me about half an hour ago by a Vulture and barely escaped with my life, so trying to tweak everything. Currently have:

Powerplant: 5b
Distributor: 4a
FSD: 5c
Thrusters: 5b
Sensors: 5d
Life Support 4d
Fuel Scoop: 3a
ADS
DDS

Shields: 6d (will almost certainly swap back to 5d cos cargo)
Killwarrant Scanner
FSD Interdictor: 3d
Wake Scanner
40t cargo bay (Soon to be at least 64t)

okay, so first: the AspE is not really a combat ship. it has a very large hitbox, and it has a low base shield value.

you can make it work in combat - for a price where you can outfit two vultures or 4 vipers, which will all outperform your AspE.

anyway, the trick of a combat AspE is to use your internals for shieldcellbanks... which limits your options for all the other fancy stuff.

but if you are running missions, there is no need to fight. weapons don't add to defense in ED, you can drop them, fit a shield that holds long enough to high wake, and invest in speed (thruster, powerdistributor), and defense like pointdefence and chaff.

basically it is worth it to consider 1 ship for combat alongside your AspE. eagle, viper, dbs, ... those ships will cost less fully a-graded than bulkheads or 5A shieldgenerator on yor AspE.

Don't use 5D shields unless you plan to live outside the bubble, you'll be dead in seconds. Even 6D is bad without boosters, fit A class shields or engineer D's. Thruster performance is based on the optimal mass, not an issue with the thrusters you have installed. You could save weight and install 6D thrusters.

in my experience, 5D shields on an AspE is totally fine in the bubble. shieldboosters are definetly worth it, though.

and an aspE can't install class 6 thrusters.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Okay I may have missed it.
What does the "shield modifier" do?

And a +1 on the AspX with 5D shields. Course mine is not a combat ship and I usually have boosters.

 

[777Driver]

in my experience, 5D shields on an AspE is totally fine in the bubble. shieldboosters are definetly worth it, though.

and an aspE can't install class 6 thrusters.

Yeah sorry I meant the 5D's. Just checking out my build in Coriolis, don't think I would enjoy flying my AspE around the bubble in open with 166Mj of shields :-/

I tend to use a Python for outpost work around the bubble, my Asp stays well clear of trouble, sits at a explorer base outside of populated space.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

The Asp's biggest problem is it's huge signature/profile/"hitbox". No shield upgrades can help with that. "Low-observable", it is not. You can't stealth a C-130, much.

If you are prepared to run, not fight, 5D, engineered shields can work. I have level 5 engineer mods on mine.

The Asp is a great ship. Just not a dedicated combat ship. Go for a Vulture, instead, if you want a similar price range for a combat craft.

- - - Updated - - -

Note- I always carry at least one engineered booster on my Asp.

 

[Lutz]

OK, thanks for the tips folks, appreciate it.

I'm currently within the bubble, will be for a while. Back to 5D shields instead of 6D, and got the 64 cargo space. I have a shield booster, and shield cells too. (Don't like shield cells mind, the heat gain is astronomical, and I don't carry a heat sink)

I wanted to be able to do some combat for 2 reason:

1) I'm doing lots of different types of missions, and inevitably some are combat.
2) Even on the non-combat ones, ships are sent after me, and that's a nice bonus if I get the kill. Or sometimes I'll get interdicted. Eagles, Sidewinders, Cobras, other Asps... I can handle these with 5D shields and my guns. They get one, maybe two passes on me, my shields survive that, then they're dead. But Vultures... wow they kill me. Feels like they have the maneuverability of the Eagle with a *much* bigger punch and they can take much more of a beating.

I could buy a combat ship, but then I have to keep constantly switching between the ships, which is annoying. Pick up missions in 1 place, having to go to another, dock, swap ships, go to target, kill, go back, get other ship back etc etc. I do have a Cobra that's "b" class pretty much.

Lastly; Don't you need Horizons to access Engineers? I don't have Horizons.

 

[goemon]

the maneuverability of the Eagle with a *much* bigger punch and they can take much more of a beating.

that's basically a vulture. it is even faster than an eagle, and only to a very small extend less manouverable ;-)

if you are running trading missions, you could always go for a vulture with a class 5 cargo rack (32 T of cargo), or if you have federal rank, a federal dropship.... or get a python at some point...

also: what is your weapon loadout on your AspE? two medium beams and 4 seeker racks is a really good mission running loadout .... and even a npc vulture can't do much against 4 seekers if shields are down.

 

[Lutz]

FDS and Python are out of my league ATM. I only have about 5m in the bank, plus the value of my Cobra and Asp.

Hmm... you know, a 32t carrying Vulture might be more what I need in terms of mission flexibility. I could carry *most* cargo missions, bring back the "we need stuff urgently!" missions, and with 2 large weapon points do the "kill stuff cos lol" missions.

Hmm. 5m to buy a Vulture. Probs 3m to get it half decent. I could actually strip parts from my Cobra and my Asp too, and I have quite a lot of decent modules stored.

Hmm...

Edit: I've never entertained missiles before!
I currently have 2 pulses on the medium hardpoints, 4 multicannons on the small points. All gimballed.

 

[goemon]

I currently have 2 pulses on the medium hardpoints, 4 multicannons on the small points. All gimballed.

i would either flip that around - you want the MCs to shred hulls, and weapons gain basically a "size penalty" (actually an armour penetration value - target hardness penalty) against hull, while they have no "size penalty" against shields .... so four small pulses and 2 medium MC will be better... but give the seekers a try AspEs class 4 powerdistributor can run 2 medium beams or 3, maybe 4 small beams...

 

[Lutz]

I have it this way, IIRC, because the power is cheaper, and I'm running low on spare power capacity. Need that 5a reactor.
In an Asp, given it's lack of maneuverability, I prefer to use gimballed weapons instead of fixed... how do beams stack up vs pulses, when gimballed?