About Retribution . . .

[Cmdr Ultra]

In most of my PVP I've killed alot of players twice. They always come back for one more try.

I think your idea would just get more unprepared Pythons and Anacondas killed again.

Still done right it could be a good idea. I like fighting players, I don't care if I'm hunted the game gives you all the tools you need to escape anytime.

Perhaps a system wide 'Player Killer Bounty' could be annouced on your HUD. Letting all players know a bounty of 500,000 credits not 6000 credits is up for grabs. That's all the info we need just a Player name no location.

 

[Sterling MH]

you dont seem to understand the difference between Low wake and High wake....

Explain.

 

[nosleepdemon]

This Reddit post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/5q758c/finding_cmdr_who_killed_me/

gave me an idea for what I think would be a reasonably simple game mechanic which would allow CMDRs a form of retribution, a way to "get back" at griefers, gankers, whatever the kids are calling it these days. Constructive feedback is appreciated:

Whenever a human CMDR blows up a ship piloted by another human CMDR the aggressor CMDRs name & current location (system name, at least, updated in real-time) could be displayed in the "blowed-up" CMDRs HUD for a period of time, maybe a few days so that if desired, a CMDR can track their attacker down and exact some form of pay-back. Maybe the rate of "griefer kills" would drop if these pinheads knew their name and current location would be displayed to their victims for a week.

This will only cause more rage threads when angry forum Dads take to the web after getting ganked not just once, but repeatedly there after by the "pinheads" they try to exact revenge upon. In other words, come at me bro

 

[Sterling MH]

Perhaps a system wide 'Player Killer Bounty' could be annouced on your HUD. Letting all players know a bounty of 500,000 credits not 6000 credits is up for grabs. That's all the info we need just a Player name no location.

That, however, lead to pirate farming in a double-team. One goes off and gets a large bounty, then comes back to their teammate who kills them and gets the bounty, clearing the former of both bounty and rep. Then they go off and farm bounty hits and comes back and donates their life back to the first teammate.

There needs to be some "idiot ball" carried that stops this sort of farming, and it can't leave without you restarting. That could STILL be farmed for some grubsteak cash on a restart, but that's only "profitable" if you've met the rebuy screen so often you're poor again.

Even if all players get is some way to detect a player killer, traders can get away early, bounty hunters can vector in, and the number of people getting griefed drops.

Many people, though, are comfortable in private or solo, so this may not bring the pilots back to open, but it makes anyone in there a little less randomly a target.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

Explain.

PvP player would never do a noobish low wake like most traders/ PvErs . If we are in danger we always use the high wake.

 

[Morbad]

I don't like this proposal at all...just sounds like a cheap way to bypass any searching/investigating of one's own. It's not justifiable/explainable by any proposed in-game mechanism and would just be another arbitrary and inexplicable gamist feature.

It's possible, though very difficult, to find other CMDRs and perform meaningful retaliation, but the journey to the deciding encounters shouldn't be trivialized by the proposed mechanism...if anything such a system would make retribution more difficult, as people would be more aware that they could be tracked. In every case that I've been able to actually down a CMDR after the fact, I was able to do so because I caught them with their pants down. If they knew I was coming for them, few would ever put themselves in such a position.

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

I don't like this proposal at all...just sounds like a cheap way to bypass any searching/investigating of one's own. It's not justifiable/explainable by any proposed in-game mechanism and would just be another arbitrary and inexplicable gamist feature.

It's possible, though very difficult, to find other CMDRs and perform meaningful retaliation, but the journey to the deciding encounters shouldn't be trivialized by the proposed mechanism..

It's a good point. I have certainly hunted down and killed Cmdr's during CG's multiple times for retribution.
You just know they are going to be in the Haz Res.... their not impossible to find.

 

[thirstyfish]

This Reddit post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/5q758c/finding_cmdr_who_killed_me/

gave me an idea for what I think would be a reasonably simple game mechanic which would allow CMDRs a form of retribution, a way to "get back" at griefers, gankers, whatever the kids are calling it these days. Constructive feedback is appreciated:

Whenever a human CMDR blows up a ship piloted by another human CMDR the aggressor CMDRs name & current location (system name, at least, updated in real-time) could be displayed in the "blowed-up" CMDRs HUD for a period of time, maybe a few days so that if desired, a CMDR can track their attacker down and exact some form of pay-back. Maybe the rate of "griefer kills" would drop if these pinheads knew their name and current location would be displayed to their victims for a week.

Don't think this idea is going to fly. There is a no witchhunt/mob policy on the forums, so it stands to reason that Fdev would take a similar approach to the game.

 

[Sterling MH]

Don't think this idea is going to fly. There is a no witchhunt/mob policy on the forums, so it stands to reason that Fdev would take a similar approach to the game.

They don't when it comes to PvP "pirates" chasing a trader who got away with some cargo.

 

[thirstyfish]

They don't when it comes to PvP "pirates" chasing a trader who got away with some cargo.

At that point we are talking possible harassment, which is covered in the EULA. Also, those pirates are capable of tracking a trader who got away (assuming high wake) because they equipped a frameshift wake scanner, and in-game item built for the purpose of tracking a target who high-waked. Legit piracy, as in in pursuit of cargo, is legit gameplay and player interaction. Your opinion or my opinion on it is not relevant. This would be something entirely different. This would allow someone (Person A) to track someone else's (Person B) location in real time, even from another system. Person A could also relay Person B's location to the entire internet. Where as a frame shift wake scanner only allows for one person to find a possible location of another person. They are rather easy to counter if you know how.

 

[Jukelo]

They don't when it comes to PvP "pirates" chasing a trader who got away with some cargo.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to put pirates in quotation marks when you specifically mention cargo is at the core of the interaction.
Also what the OP is asking for would be a tool used specifically for the purpose of harassing players, Frontier has never at any point said or shown in any way that they would be okay with that, quite the contrary. Not that it would be very effective anyway, highwaking can be used just as effectively by murderhobos as regular folks.
I like the idea though (as I'm not a fan of the anti-harassment rules), but it should be an IG tool available to everyone if you have the proper contacts, and only after Frontier fixes the high waking exploit.

 

[thirstyfish]

I'm not sure why you feel the need to put pirates in quotation marks when you specifically mention cargo is at the core of the interaction.
Also what the OP is asking for would be a tool used specifically for the purpose of harassing players, Frontier has never at any point said or shown in any way that they would be okay with that, quite the contrary. Not that it would be very effective anyway, highwaking can be used just as effectively by murderhobos as regular folks.
I like the idea though (as I'm not a fan of the anti-harassment rules), but it should be an IG tool available to everyone if you have the proper contacts, and only after Frontier fixes the high waking exploit.

The anti-harassment rules are there for a reason. Go ask a lawyer why. High waking is not an exploit. It is simply playing the game. If it was an exploit, Fdev would have said so a long time ago. Its their game, they make the rules. You don't.

 

[Morbad]

At that point we are talking possible harassment, which is covered in the EULA.

Such instances are almost never a case of player on player harassment. Pirates who don't incentivise compliance and punish defiance aren't being very credible in-game pirates.

Not that I think the game even really allows for credible attempts at piracy, but that's another matter.

Also, those pirates are capable of tracking a trader who got away (assuming high wake) because they equipped a frameshift wake scanner, and in-game item built for the purpose of tracking a target who high-waked.

It's often just as fast or faster to cycle through likely escape route systems and see where the wake is pointing.

This would be something entirely different. This would allow someone (Person A) to track someone else's (Person B) location in real time, even from another system.

Yeah, this concept is like an involuntary friend marker.

Friend markers, as gamy as I think they are, at least have some passable in-game explanation. A 'revenge marker' has none.

At best, I could see one registering for a bounty feed, so that when someone with that name and bounty was scanned by someone with a KWS or with report crimes on, their location would then show up on the galaxy map, with some delay. However, if the target was careful not to be basic scanned in systems he or she was wanted in, or kill-warrant scanned anywhere, no location would be available.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

I'm not sure why you feel the need to put pirates in quotation marks when you specifically mention cargo is at the core of the interaction.
Also what the OP is asking for would be a tool used specifically for the purpose of harassing players, Frontier has never at any point said or shown in any way that they would be okay with that, quite the contrary. Not that it would be very effective anyway, highwaking can be used just as effectively by murderhobos as regular folks.
I like the idea though (as I'm not a fan of the anti-harassment rules), but it should be an IG tool available to everyone if you have the proper contacts, and only after Frontier fixes the high waking exploit.

He doesn't like PIRATES (he can put the word in "" i can CAPS it right? ) maybe someone had removed some cargo of him in game and now he is in seek of RETRIBUTION

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Such instances are almost never a case of player on player harassment. Pirates who don't incentivise compliance and punish defiance aren't being very credible in-game pirates.

Not that I think the game even really allows for credible attempts at piracy, but that's another matter.



It's often just as fast or faster to cycle through likely escape route systems and see where the wake is pointing.



Yeah, this concept is like an involuntary friend marker.

Friend markers, as gamy as I think they are, at least have some passable in-game explanation. A 'revenge marker' has none.

At best, I could see one registering for a bounty feed, so that when someone with that name and bounty was scanned by someone with a KWS or with report crimes on, their location would then show up on the galaxy map, with some delay. However, if the target was careful not to be basic scanned in systems he or she was wanted in, or kill-warrant scanned anywhere, no location would be available.

OK lets go in parts.

1 - Is totally possible to actually pirate a player in game in any legitmate way ,I'm living proof of it (or my character is)

2 - 70% true, if the player is noobish to actually pick one of the first sys... if he random pick one of the bottom , then there's the ship jump range that can change what he sees and what i see. plus a further sys makes it harder to pinpoint.

3 - the amount of time to "scan - hiwake - load sys "- is longer than "Load sys - cool down - lowwake" or "Load sys - cool down - highwake to another sys". which makes the Scanner kinda of useless against players

4- I kinda like it, plus id put further on , a BUY intel, on the stations with lower security... so you could buy anyone's intel, just need to know the name of the guy

 

[Morbad]

1 - Is totally possible to actually pirate a player in game in any legitmate way ,I'm living proof of it (or my character is)

I still feel the game doesn't make piracy very viable. The difficulty is high and the payouts usually meager. Only very inexperienced CMDRs are really vulnerable to piracy, with the occasional exception of the touristy types actually looking to give handouts to pirates.

2 - 70% true, if the player is noobish to actually pick one of the first sys... if he random pick one of the bottom , then there's the ship jump range that can change what he sees and what i see. plus a further sys makes it harder to pinpoint.

I normally have an escape waypoint set and it tends to be a system it would be logical to jump to.

3 - the amount of time to "scan - hiwake - load sys "- is longer than "Load sys - cool down - lowwake" or "Load sys - cool down - highwake to another sys". which makes the Scanner kinda of useless against players

You don't even need to wait for the cooldown. If I think I might be followed, I just shut off my thrusters the moment I enter the new system, which low wakes me faster than anyone could follow. The small risk is if I pick a system where someone is waiting for me and then have to wait for the longer cooldown to jump again.

4- I kinda like it, plus id put further on , a BUY intel, on the stations with lower security... so you could buy anyone's intel, just need to know the name of the guy

I wouldn't be opposed to such a system, but the intel has to come from somewhere. If you aren't scanned, didn't dock, didn't buy anything, etc, there shouldn't be any location info to buy.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

I still feel the game doesn't make piracy very viable. The difficulty is high and the payouts usually meager. Only very inexperienced CMDRs are really vulnerable to piracy, with the occasional exception of the touristy types actually looking to give handouts to pirates.

Yes, for PvE is not much... but you can still have some good cargo missions if you know what you are doing.... Plus LTD heist is very profitable , and even on smaller ships you can make at least 1 M per raid...and in medium ship talk about 4-5 M per heist


For PvP it works better (IMO!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOqmz_9lGQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcJvewemlQw

These are 2 of my videos if you want to have a look.

I normally have an escape waypoint set and it tends to be a system it would be logical to jump to.

Thats very eficient way of doing it.I Only do it if i think there's a chance of heavy resistance... most of the cases i don't...

You don't even need to wait for the cooldown. If I think I might be followed, I just shut off my thrusters the moment I enter the new system, which low wakes me faster than anyone could follow. The small risk is if I pick a system where someone is waiting for me and then have to wait for the longer cooldown to jump again.

Indeed Clever...

I wouldn't be opposed to such a system, but the intel has to come from somewhere. If you aren't scanned, didn't dock, didn't buy anything, etc, there shouldn't be any location info to buy.

Yes I agree 100%, it's just like they do on the top 5 ... if you don't dock you're not at the sys...

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I wouldn't wipe with Reddit, so thanks for sharing the content.

And I have to say "No" here. Displaying a Who-Did-What-and-Where message would only encourage knobs to act like knobs to see their names displayed so they can feel better about being better than someone with 10 minutes of in-game experience.

Not that I wouldn't welcome seeing several wings of PvP-built Cutters, Corvettes, Anacondas, Pythons and FdL's swarm on these people and reduce them to rubble as many of them probably deserve - after all, the surest way to stop a bully is to beat them so badly neither their mothers nor god recognize them, but that's a whole other topic.

 

[Truesilver]

Honestly, if someone really wants to know where the guy who just killed them is in future, note his name from the rebuy screen, then send him a friend request.

I guarantee that 99% will accept, they won't bother you again in any way, and you'll be able to see where they are forever after.

If they're an experienced PK-er, inside 1 to 24 hours most won't even remember how you got on their list. I have no idea who all the scores of randoms on mine are.

 

[Morbad]

I don't accept unsolicited friend requests and I have a nearly eidetic memory for perceived slights!

This topic does remind me that it's time for my bi-yearly extraneous friend-list friend purge though.

 

[JetsonRING]

Then the pinheads would hide in solo or a PG until their name cleared.

If you could universally search for someone at anytime, that would work, but griefers and their mates could then use the same system to find you again and again and again.

The expiration timer could easily be programmed to count-down time played only in "OPEN" mode. As long as a CMDR hides in SOLO or PRIVATE mode, the timer does not count-down. Easy-peasy.

- - - Updated - - -

While in general terms I agree with the OP's objective, I feel I must reiterate a concern I usually express in these circumstances:

Proposals like this fuel the myth that it is possible to hunt down and kill a PvP-er in an apex combat ship.

It isn't. You can hunt them (us) down and make us high wake. There is nothing else you can do, because the game does not permit one Cmdr, a wing of Cmdrs, or even two wings of Cmdrs, to kill a competent individual in an apex combat ship before they can escape.

Knowing where the target is is irrelevant because you can't do anything if the target is sitting in front of you in supercruise.

So, whilst this sort of hunting could cause tactical disruption of a target's activities, it can't non-consensually kill them. Unless they are either a pitiful wannabe a in a junk-level ship, or choose to fight and stay too long.

However, I repeat: if the target knows even vaguely what they are doing and has a properly outfitted ship, they cannot be non-consensually killed.

Unfortunately I do not have any proposals as to how this could be changed - to make ED player bounty-hunting / vigilante-hunting a thing. Although I would welcome any ideas other users might have.

The problem of course is that whatever would make a RPK-er easier to kill would also make it easier for the RPK-er to kill, if you see what I mean ...

Even better: If somebody in a sub-spec ship gets all bu**-hurt and squirrelly, decides he or she is going to hunt down that A-spec ship, more fodder for the Cannons! [arrrr]

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Exactly. Killing a PvP-experienced commander is impossible, if he choses not to fight, unless you catch him in his Hauler-Taxi...
Submitting and high-waking takes ~20 seconds... no way any attacker, even a wing of 4 Corvettes can destroy a fleeing PvPer in a PvP ship in this time window.

This is also unlikeley to change, as commanders need a reliable way to escape from wannabe-gankers.

It is good for CMDRs in sub-par ships to learn they cannot win. Let them chase, they learn from their repeated mistake, it provides more gameplay action and CMDRs flying A-spec ships (griefers) get more action as well.